9/11 Conspiracy Theories

wkmac

Well-Known Member

4 years later but seems now this issue is building to the point that Shep Smith at Fox News can't ignore it. Republican Walter Jones Congressman NC has also seen the docs along with several democrats and they also join Senator Graham in demanding a full release. Tip of the hat to Sen. Graham for not letting this die. So where is CNN, MSNBC and the rest?

Shep Smith and Judge Napolitano discuss the complicity of the Saudi Arabian gov't to the events of 9/11
 

soberups

Pees in the brown Koolaid
There is a simple and overlooked reason why so little debris was left from the planes and why they were able to bring the Towers down despite the towers being designed to withstand such damage.

When the Towers were designed, the assumption was that any sort of aircraft collision would involve planes that were either landing or taking off from a nearby airport. Landings and takeoffs occur at speeds below 200MPH.

The planes that struck the Towers on 9-11 weren't going 200MPH. They were going over 550MPH, which was far beyond their designed maximum speed for such low altitudes, and a velocity which would soon have destroyed the airframes had they not hit the buildings first. At low altitudes, the atmospheric density is such that the wings will collapse at that speed. It could not possibly have been foreseen, or designed for, that fully loaded airliners would intentionally be flown into the Towers at nearly the speed of sound.

There is a big difference between 200 MPH and 550 MPH. A big difference.
 

Catatonic

Nine Lives
There is a simple and overlooked reason why so little debris was left from the planes and why they were able to bring the Towers down despite the towers being designed to withstand such damage.

When the Towers were designed, the assumption was that any sort of aircraft collision would involve planes that were either landing or taking off from a nearby airport. Landings and takeoffs occur at speeds below 200MPH.

The planes that struck the Towers on 9-11 weren't going 200MPH. They were going over 550MPH, which was far beyond their designed maximum speed for such low altitudes, and a velocity which would soon have destroyed the airframes had they not hit the buildings first. At low altitudes, the atmospheric density is such that the wings will collapse at that speed. It could not possibly have been foreseen, or designed for, that fully loaded airliners would intentionally be flown into the Towers at nearly the speed of sound.

There is a big difference between 200 MPH and 550 MPH. A big difference.
We can all agree 350 mph is a big difference.
 

raceanoncr

Well-Known Member
We can all agree 350 mph is a big difference.
Especially when you put the brakes on. Retinas like to detach.

chute.jpg
 

The Other Side

Well-Known Troll
Troll
There is a simple and overlooked reason why so little debris was left from the planes and why they were able to bring the Towers down despite the towers being designed to withstand such damage.

When the Towers were designed, the assumption was that any sort of aircraft collision would involve planes that were either landing or taking off from a nearby airport. Landings and takeoffs occur at speeds below 200MPH.

The planes that struck the Towers on 9-11 weren't going 200MPH. They were going over 550MPH, which was far beyond their designed maximum speed for such low altitudes, and a velocity which would soon have destroyed the airframes had they not hit the buildings first. At low altitudes, the atmospheric density is such that the wings will collapse at that speed. It could not possibly have been foreseen, or designed for, that fully loaded airliners would intentionally be flown into the Towers at nearly the speed of sound.

There is a big difference between 200 MPH and 550 MPH. A big difference.


Speed had NOTHING to do with the multiple reports and evidence of EXPLOSIONS in the basement, and on lower floors, as reported by fire captains and firemen after the impact of the planes.

There was NO way for jet fuel to travel downward to lower floors to ignite ANYTHING as the majority of fuel burned on impact.

Regardless, the towers were built to sustain such hits by jumbo jets and the one thing that is still a mystery is WHY the towers fell at "FREE FALL" speed.

Its scientifically impossible for a building to fall at "FREE FALL" speed when one floor in falling onto another floor.

In order to fall at "FREE FALL" speed, every BOLT, WELD, WIRE, BRACKET, BRACE, CROSSBEAM and STEEL BEAMS would have to simultaneously FAIL on every single floor from the top to the bottom including the basement.

That has NEVER before in history occured in a steel frame building anywhere in the world due to a fire.

The 9/11 report stated that both buildings came down in under 10.1 seconds.

The problem with some people, is that "they" accept what they have been told about 9/11 because it is easier to accept than to question.


The following are excerpts:

The government and the media told us what we saw.

The government told us that we had witnessed a "gravitational collapse"; what is now referred to as a "pancake collapse". According to the government's, and PBS's, and Popular Mechanics', and Scientific American's theory, airplane crashes and subsequent kerosene (like lamp oil; jet fuel is NOT exotic) fires heated UL-certified structural steel to the point where it was significantly weakened, which is already very difficult to believe, nevermind repeat in an experiment. According to their "pancake theory", this imagined purported (all the evidence was subsequently illegally destroyed) weakening supposedly caused part of the tower to collapse downward onto the rest of the tower, which, we've been repeatedly told, somehow resulted in a chain reaction of lower floors, sequentially, one at a time, yielding to and becoming incorporated into a growing stack of floors falling from above.

There are some problems with that theory; it does not fit the observed facts: It cannot account for the total failure of the immense core columns, nor the 'disappearance' of that so-called "growing stack", nor the too-rapid-to-blame-it-all-on-gravity 'collapse' times, nor the huge energy surplus, nor the nanosizes of the 'dust' particles. This article focuses on the third of these mentioned discrepancies, and just scratches the surface of the fourth.
The scientists who've concocted the popularized "pancake theory" made a fatal error: they forgot to check their work! Which is an easy thing to do, even without any physical evidence to forensically examine. Anyone, at any time, can check the work of the scientists -- that incredible pancake theory of theirs -- using simple, high-school physics!
And that's what we're about to do here. We're going to check the work -- something every grade-schooler is taught to do -- of those "scientists".
We will use a simple, unassailable, incontrovertible conservation-of-energy analysis to perform a simple, basic reality check that establishes, once and for all, that the U.S. government, PBS, Popular Mechanics, and Scientific American have misrepresented the true nature of the events of 9/11.

SCIENCE

The towers were 1350 and 1360 feet tall. So let's start by using our trusty free-fall equation to see how long it should take an object to free-fall from the towers' former height.

Distance = 1/2 x Gravity x Time(squared)
or
2 x Distance = Gravity x Time(squared)
Time(squared) = (2 x Distance) / Gravity
Time(squared) = 2710 / 32 = 84.7
Time = 9.2
So our equation tells us that it will take 9.2 seconds to free-fall to the ground from the towers' former height.
Using our simpler equation, V = GT, we can see that at 9.2 seconds, in order to reach the ground in 9.2 seconds, the free-falling object's velocity must be about 295 ft/sec, which is just over 200 mph.

But that can only occur in a vacuum.

Since the WTC was at sea level, in Earth's atmosphere, you might be able to imagine how much air resistance that represents. (Think about putting your arm out the window of a car moving half that fast!) Most free-falling objects would reach their terminal velocity long before they reached 200 mph. For example, the commonly-accepted terminal velocity of a free-falling human is around 120 mph. The terminal velocity of a free-falling cat is around 60 mph. (source)
Therefore, air resistance alone will make it take longer than 10 seconds for gravity to pull an object to the ground from the towers' former height.



If there were NO bombs or "assistance" on lower floors not affected by fire, those floors would have offered resistance to the floors above as they came down SLOWING the fall of the floors above. 10.1 seconds would have been physically IMPOSSIBLE despite what we have been told by the 9/11 commission.

This was the greatest crime ever committed.


Conclusions

In order for the tower to have "collapsed" gravitationally, as we've been told over and over again, in the observed duration, one or more of the following zany-sounding conditions must have been met:
  • The undamaged stories below the impact zone offered zero resistance to the collapse
  • The glass and concrete spontaneously disintegrated without any expenditure of energy
  • On 9/11, gravity was much stronger than gravity
  • On 9/11, energy was not conserved
However, none of these physics-violating conditions can be accounted for by the official government conspiracy theory of 9/11, nor by any of the subsequent analyses designed to prop up the official theory of 9/11.
Bottom line: the government/PBS/PM/SA explanation for the WTC "collapses" fails the most basic conservation-of-energy reality check. Therefore the government/PBS/PM/SA theory does not fit the observed facts; the notion of a "pancake collapse" cannot account for what happened. The "pancake collapse theory" explanation is impossible, and thus absurd.
It is utterly impossible for a "gravitational collapse" to proceed so destructively through a path of such great resistance in anywhere near free-fall times. This fact debunks the preposterous contention that the observed WTC "collapses" can be blamed solely upon damages resulting from aerial assaults: the unnaturally-brief durations of the highly destructive top-down "collapses" reveal that the towers did not disintegrate because they were coming down, but rather they came down because something [else] was causing them to disintegrate.
So, to the extent that people accept the ridiculous "pancake collapse" explanation, Gates' other premise, that people know what they saw, is also incorrect. It is left to the reader to decide if his conclusion, which was based upon two incorrect presumptions, is also flawed.
The purported "gravitational collapse" (video) of World Trade Center building 7, which was hit by zero aircraft, and which also vertically collapsed in within a second of free-fall-time-in-a-vacuum later that same day, similarly fails this same conservation-of-energy analysis.
The explanation for how and why so many highly-accredited and credentialed people all so miserably failed to check the "pancake collapse" theory, by giving it this basic reality check, is beyond the scope of this simple physics discussion.

What about building (7) ??

This building didnt get hit by an aircraft, didnt get hit by airplane debris, didnt have massive fires in it, YET, 12 hours after the first towers were hit and fell, this building falls down and most people dont even know it fell.


The real concern, is why Americans dont want to have a REAL discussion about 9/11? Why cant we question what happened on that day? Who was really behind it?

Why is it so hard to believe that something in conjunction with these hijackers from Saudi Arabia and funded by the Royal Family occured on that day?

And BEFORE anyone attempts to use POPULAR MECHANICS debunking video, do yourself a favor and dont. Those claims by PM have been debunked themselves.



Can we debate this subject without any partisan objections??

TOS.
 

Babagounj

Strength through joy
Watched a tv program this past week by engineers on why it happened .
Seems that on the video a liquid can be seen pouring out of the building , it was the aluminum from the planes .
Melting Point: 660.37 °C (933.52 K, 1220.666 °friend) .
What many fail to note is that while steel melts at around 1,370°C (2500°friend) it begins to lose its strength at a much lower temperature. The steel structure of the World Trade Center would not have to melt in order for the buildings to lose their structural integrity. Steel can be soft at 538°C (1,000°friend) well below the burning temperature of jet fuel.
 

soberups

Pees in the brown Koolaid
Regardless, the towers were built to sustain such hits by jumbo jets and the one thing that is still a mystery is WHY the towers fell at "FREE FALL" speed.

When the Towers were designed and built in 1970, the biggest jet airliner in existence at the time was the Boeing 707 and it was assumed that a collision involving a 707 and one of the Towers would occur at normal landing and takeoff speeds....approximately 200 MPH.

The Boeing 767's that struck the Towers on 9-11 were significantly larger and heavier than a 707 and carried half again as much fuel on board. They were also traveling at almost 3 times the velocity (550MPH) as would be expected during landing or takeoff.

If your house was designed to withstand an impact from an economy car striking it at 20MPH, would you realistically expect it to withstand the impact of a fully loaded 18-wheel semi truck going 55 MPH? No.
 

oldngray

nowhere special
When the Towers were designed and built in 1970, the biggest jet airliner in existence at the time was the Boeing 707 and it was assumed that a collision involving a 707 and one of the Towers would occur at normal landing and takeoff speeds....approximately 200 MPH.

The Boeing 767's that struck the Towers on 9-11 were significantly larger and heavier than a 707 and carried half again as much fuel on board. They were also traveling at almost 3 times the velocity (550MPH) as would be expected during landing or takeoff.

If your house was designed to withstand an impact from an economy car striking it at 20MPH, would you realistically expect it to withstand the impact of a fully loaded 18-wheel semi truck going 55 MPH? No.

They planned for something more on a scale of the B-25 that hit the Empire State Building and figured twice that strong would be good enough.
 

The Other Side

Well-Known Troll
Troll
When the Towers were designed and built in 1970, the biggest jet airliner in existence at the time was the Boeing 707 and it was assumed that a collision involving a 707 and one of the Towers would occur at normal landing and takeoff speeds....approximately 200 MPH.

The Boeing 767's that struck the Towers on 9-11 were significantly larger and heavier than a 707 and carried half again as much fuel on board. They were also traveling at almost 3 times the velocity (550MPH) as would be expected during landing or takeoff.

If your house was designed to withstand an impact from an economy car striking it at 20MPH, would you realistically expect it to withstand the impact of a fully loaded 18-wheel semi truck going 55 MPH? No.

that makes no difference.

Most of the fuel on board the 767 burnt on impact into the air.

TOS.
 

wkmac

Well-Known Member
Looking at the events of the day and trying to figure it out at this time seems to me as an impossible task. Take the day's events on 9/11 at pure face value.

I find it far more productive to look at days leading up too and days following, who did what and what outcomes occurred to at least find the cracks and go from there.

When dealing with a large problem that is a crime, law enforcement and investigators will "follow the money" to find the evidence to exploit the cracks to break it open and find the truth. There still are 28 redacted pages the public have not seen but Congressional members of both parties on the intelligence committees have seen and they all say these 28 pages contain information that is a complete game changer. I've concluded we may well not have all the facts we need to reach a full conclusion to the truth.

We need to beat the grass to startle the snakes!
 

The Other Side

Well-Known Troll
Troll
Watched a tv program this past week by engineers on why it happened .
Seems that on the video a liquid can be seen pouring out of the building , it was the aluminum from the planes .
Melting Point: 660.37 °C (933.52 K, 1220.666 °friend) .
What many fail to note is that while steel melts at around 1,370°C (2500°friend) it begins to lose its strength at a much lower temperature. The steel structure of the World Trade Center would not have to melt in order for the buildings to lose their structural integrity. Steel can be soft at 538°C (1,000°friend) well below the burning temperature of jet fuel.


ALL THE STEEL in the world trade centers were TREATED with FIRE resistant materials BABA.

Steel doesnt melt in temps below melting point, nor will fire resistant materials burn off exposing the raw metal during a fire to the point where it could melt.

SCIENCE is NOT on your side.

It may be the convenient explanation to hide the truth, but if you use math and science, you will find it makes no sense.

TOS.
 

The Other Side

Well-Known Troll
Troll
And for the record.

Commercial Jet fuel burns at temps lower than 1100 degrees by design. NO addition of furniture, drywall, paint or carpet can make the heat INCREASE to anywhere near 1800 degrees friend.

Thats another "lie" told about 9/11

TOS.
 

soberups

Pees in the brown Koolaid
ALL THE STEEL in the world trade centers were TREATED with FIRE resistant materials BABA.

Steel doesnt melt in temps below melting point, nor will fire resistant materials burn off exposing the raw metal during a fire to the point where it could melt.

SCIENCE is NOT on your side.

It may be the convenient explanation to hide the truth, but if you use math and science, you will find it makes no sense.

TOS.
A lot of the steel wasn't treated. And the steel that was treated had a thin "spray on" foam material applied to it that had begun to fall off. A lot of that material that was still on the girders wound up getting blown off by the impact of a fully loaded jet airliner hitting the building at 550MPH.
 

soberups

Pees in the brown Koolaid
Occam's razor: the simplest solution tends to be the correct one.

If a rogue element in our government was indeed willing to inflict mass casualties in a false flag incident....which I do find plausible....then is it logical that they would have wired up 3 buildings with thousands of pounds of explosives and then coordinated the detonations with 4 different civilian aircraft that they had arranged to be hijacked and flown into those buildings on suicide missions? All while knowing full well that the second impact and the subsequent collapse of the buildings would be among the most videotaped and exhaustively scrutinized incidents in history?

Just think about it for a moment. Such an operation would be far too complicated, have far too many potential failure points and involve far too many people who would have to be trusted to remain silent.

A rogue government agency with the resources and technical expertise to pull off a 9/11 could have easily accomplished the same thing by fabricating a couple of low-yield nukes or even a few "dirty bombs" in rental vans loaded up with plastic explosives and nuclear waste, and then detonating them in the basement of the Towers. Plant a few fake Arab passports in there, and you accomplish the same thing with only a handful of people in the know and without the need to coordinate multiple hijackings and Kamikaze missions with airliners.
 

The Other Side

Well-Known Troll
Troll
A lot of the steel wasn't treated. And the steel that was treated had a thin "spray on" foam material applied to it that had begun to fall off. A lot of that material that was still on the girders wound up getting blown off by the impact of a fully loaded jet airliner hitting the building at 550MPH.

This is untrue. How do you explain the iron ore balls in the debris field?

TOS.
 
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