Abortion

[RedThunder]

s"I stood​ at the docto​r'​s side and watch​ed him perfo​rm a parti​al-​birth​ abort​ion"

Bullshat propaganda. There is no medical procedure known as a partial-birth abortion. It's a term made up by a politician to promote his own ideology and agenda. I'm pro choice but it's a choice I wouldn't make. But I do respect the right of a woman to choose what to do with her own body.

 

[moreluck]

s"I stood​ at the docto​r'​s side and watch​ed him perfo​rm a parti​al-​birth​ abort​ion"

Bullshat propaganda. There is no medical procedure known as a partial-birth abortion. It's a term made up by a politician to promote his own ideology and agenda. I'm pro choice but it's a choice I wouldn't make. But I do respect the right of a woman to choose what to do with her own body.

A statute names it a 'partial birth abortion'. Medically it's an intact dilation and extraction.

 

[island1fox]

s"I stood​ at the docto​r'​s side and watch​ed him perfo​rm a parti​al-​birth​ abort​ion"

Bullshat propaganda. There is no medical procedure known as a partial-birth abortion. It's a term made up by a politician to promote his own ideology and agenda. I'm pro choice but it's a choice I wouldn't make. But I do respect the right of a woman to choose what to do with her own body.

Red,
Propaganda ?? Stop dringing the Kool aid. The catchy slogan "A women has a right to choose what to do with her own body" does not cut it.
A woman has many choices, to date, not to date, marry not to marry, who to date or marry, who to have sex with , use birth control or not and in the case of rape the morning after pill . Technology has created many choices.
Technology has also moved ahead with ultra sound when the mother sees the head and the little hands and feet and heartbeat of the precious LIFE that is inside of her womb -the safest place on earth.
Ultra sound is now used for abortions. You can watch as the baby or if you prefer fetus puts their little hands and feet up in a defensive motion as the abortion device stabs and ends life.
There have been many cases of partial birth when the baby is still alive when it is ripped from the womb. Present law provides that the baby is thrown into a bedpan to die and the term is "botched" abortion.
Under todays law the father of the fetus has no rights. I hope someday you do not have a woman married to your son who desperately wants your Grandchild to be born ---but that great catchy phrase "A woman's right to choose -trumps all common sense and your Grandchild is executed.
Over 53 million abortions in our civilized United States --something is radically wrong. The slogans are easy --educate yourself fully on the abortion procedure.
I love the lib's --save the polar bears, save the seals, etc,etc,etc, ---but to rip a baby out of the womb --right up to the point of delivery --"A woman's right" ????? seems kind of sick.

One week after birth a woman has the right not to get her body out of bed and the baby dies. Is that her right to choose what to do with her own body ?? Pretty lame !!!

 

[menotyou]

I hate to dip my toes into this, but here goes. I think most women agree abortions have become almost a form a birth control to some. Which is wrong. All I can say is, if you are the person who has a conscience and left with this choice, it is not made easy. With a heavy heart, and a shame you can never shake, is how most women chose this. Having others question that choice is the cross you bear. You are the who has to face your maker. You are the one who has to explain why and what you did. That is the person who judges, not us.

Just sayin'

 

[trplnkl]

s"I stood​ at the docto​r'​s side and watch​ed him perfo​rm a parti​al-​birth​ abort​ion"

Bullshat propaganda. There is no medical procedure known as a partial-birth abortion. It's a term made up by a politician to promote his own ideology and agenda. I'm pro choice but it's a choice I wouldn't make. But I do respect the right of a woman to choose what to do with her own body.

" But I do respect the right of a woman to choose what to do with her own body." that I agree with, but BUT, in an abortion the woman is making a choice for the body of another that has no voice.
Does it really matter who first used the term partial-birth abortion? It correctly describes the procedure.

 

[menotyou]

I think something MOST people agree on is Partial-birth and abortion​ do not belong in the same sentence.

 

[trplnkl]

I think something MOST people agree on is Partial-birth and abortion​ do not belong in the same sentence.

And I think it is a shame that we have to even have the phrase.

For Poster Red Thunder

What is a Partial-Birth Abortion? * The definition of partial-birth abortion in H.R. 1833 is "an abortion in which the person performing the abortion partially vaginally delivers a living fetus before killing the fetus and completing the delivery." A number of physicians were involved in the drafting of this language to ensure that it is medically accurate and does not encompass any other form of abortion or legitimate medical procedure.

LINK

 

[bbsam]

Well then let's fund Partial-Birth Extraction and Nurturing in which the fetus is delivered, incubated to full term, and adopted into a loving family. Probably expensive, but morally sound.

 

[trplnkl]

Well then let's fund Partial-Birth Extraction and Nurturing in which the fetus is delivered, incubated to full term, and adopted into a loving family. Probably expensive, but morally sound.

Not so sure it is medically sound.

 

[bbsam]

Aborting a fetus is medically sound but sustaining the life is not?

 

[trplnkl]

Aborting a fetus is medically sound but sustaining the life is not?

Leaving the baby where nature intended is much more medically sound (usually). Abortion being medically sound is only for the woman carrying the baby, not so sound for the baby.

Admittedly there is a stage of gestation where a fetus/human can be placed in an incubator and survive, although a large % of those children suffer lasting ill effects from being prematurely born. IMO, that alone would make this medically unsound other than when it can not be avoided.

 

[bbsam]

Leaving the baby where nature intended is much more medically sound (usually). Abortion being medically sound is only for the woman carrying the baby, not so sound for the baby.

Admittedly there is a stage of gestation where a fetus/human can be placed in an incubator and survive, although a large % of those children suffer lasting ill effects from being prematurely born. IMO, that alone would make this medically unsound other than when it can not be avoided.

If I understand this correctly, however, then the latest the procedure can be done, is a point at which the fetus cannot be medically sustained. If that is the case, I think the woman is indeed making a decision for her own body. If it is not the case, and preservation is possible, then perhaps that is where the efforts should go. If we are intent upon making this decision, we should as a society pony up the cost.

 

[trplnkl]

If I understand this correctly, however, then the latest the procedure can be done, is a point at which the fetus cannot be medically sustained. If that is the case, I think the woman is indeed making a decision for her own body. If it is not the case, and preservation is possible, then perhaps that is where the efforts should go. If we are intent upon making this decision, we should as a society pony up the cost.

So once again you want everybody but the person responsible to pay for that persons irresponsibility along with the added risk of the infant?

It is not JUST the woman's body, the infant/fetus whatever name you want to use has a body also.

From the link I posted a couple back :

* Registered nurse Brenda Pratt Shafer witnessed several partial-birth abortions while working for an Ohio abortionist. She described one of these abortions in a July 9, 1995, letter to Congressman Tony Hall: The baby's body was moving. His little fingers were clasping together. He was kicking his feet. All the while his little head was still stuck inside. Dr. Haskell took a pair of scissors and inserted them into the back of the baby's head. Then he opened the scissors up. Then he stuck the high-powered suction tube into the hole and sucked the baby's brains out.

Does this describe a baby or a fetus that can't survive outside the womb?

 

[bbsam]

No. I am not suggesting that the mother should not be responsible. I am saying that an individual's lack of responsibility does not negate the necessity of the community to be responsible. And while I believe Ms. Shafer had a traumatic experience, the account given it drips with propaganda. The "abortionist" is an Ob, Gyn. The account is clearly aimed at evoking emotion and is quite successful at it, but offers only a small piece of the entire human drama. These procedures are not frequent and their magnification is simply to incite enery in the anti-abortion campaign. I think to be pro-life would be to find a way to bring these fetuses to term outside the mother and considering the technology at our disposal, it is more than possible and the only thing lacking in a country as rich as ours is the will to do so. We don't want tax-payer money going to the abortion, will we spend it in accomplishing this pro-life alternative?

 

[island1fox]

bbsam,
On some points we may have common ground --extending life -but to claim that these procedures are not frequent is only putting your head in the sand.
As I stated in an earlier post -technology has advanced. When ultra-sound was only used to see whether the baby was a boy or girl your statement could be accepted.
When many if not all abortions are now performed using the ultrasound technology there have been numerous and consistent reports a few directly from Planned Parenthood that the fetus after twelve weeks is shown to be defending itself from the abortion instrument.

Just as you or I would defend ourselves against a scissor or knife wielding assasin, the Baby with a rapid heartbeat and its little hands and feet fights for survival. That human instinct is in all of us.

What this information has done is to make people put their heads in the sand , deny pain, deny resistance and deny life.

I believe the right to life people should openly show to all what an ultra sound abortion looks like. There would be no way after seeing such a sight that life can be so easily taken unless you are a barbarian.
But many people will not educate THEMSELVES on the true facts.

A famous line from a movie comes to mind "You just cannot handle the truth"

It is easy to say "I am pro choice" or "I believe in the woman's right to choose" or "I believe that life begins at birth"

This is a very difficult subject because either religious or political views have blinded us.

The facts of heartbeat, limbs,body, brain function, survival instinct,movement all must be considered. Not just that it is "inconvenient"

 

[trplnkl]

No. I am not suggesting that the mother should not be responsible. I am saying that an individual's lack of responsibility does not negatethe necessity of the community to be responsible. And while I believe Ms. Shafer had a traumatic experience, the account given it drips with propaganda. The "abortionist" is an Ob, Gyn. The account is clearly aimed at evoking emotion and is quite successful at it, but offers only a small piece of the entire human drama. These procedures are not frequent and their magnification is simply to incite enery in the anti-abortion campaign. I think to be pro-life would be to find a way to bring these fetuses to term outside the mother and considering the technology at our disposal, it is more than possible and the only thing lacking in a country as rich as ours is the will to do so. We don't want tax-payer money going to the abortion, will we spend it in accomplishing this pro-life alternative?

The lack of responsibility shouldn't automatically default to the community, that is precisely why so many do not have personal responsibility. Why make any effort to do the right thing when someone else will do it for you? That's a pretty pitiful mindset.
What about the medical problems a premature baby encounters? If I'm not mistaken 24 weeks is the latest abortion is allowed, bare in mind the estimation of the stage of gestation is not much more than an educated guess. The survival rate charts start around 22 weeks from what I can find out.

What medical complications are common in premature babies?[/h]"There are a number of complications that are more likely in premature than full-term babies. Late preterm babies generally have few or mild problems. Babies born before about 32 to 34 weeks' gestation may have a number of complications, ranging from mild to severe."

Read more

Why would the question "can the fetus survive outside the womb" even be a consideration ? Fact is, when carried full term, most do live.

Our country is far from rich, remember we just had to up our borrowing limit.

 

[moreluck]

Love them or hate them, I watched the Duggers struggle when Josie was born. She recently celebrated her first b-day and is in the baby walker running all over that house.

Josie was born 15 weeks early and weighed only 1 pound 6 ounces. 15 weeks early!!! Do you realize how early that is???

 

[moreluck]

ZIP | Saturday, October 22, 2011 @ 6:30 pm |
Former Kansas Gov. And Current Obama HHS Secretary Kathleen Sebelius Destroyed Documents In Criminal Case Against Planned Parenthood…

Sebelius is a pro-abortion fanatic, no doubt in my mind it was done intentionally.

(Kansas City Star) — The country’s first criminal prosecution of Planned Parenthood was left teetering Friday when it was revealed the state of Kansas destroyed abortion records that prosecutors planned to use as evidence.
Johnson County prosecutors asked a judge to delay a Monday hearing to decide if there’s enough evidence to try Planned Parenthood on 23 felony counts of falsifying termination of pregnancy reports.

Prosecutors say the records, which are central to making their case, were shredded sometime in 2005, roughly two years before charges were brought against Planned Parenthood by former Johnson County District Attorney Phill Kline.

The Kansas Department of Health and Environment shredded the records as a “routine” destruction of state documents, court files said.
The prosecution’s request for a continuance drew a swift response from Planned Parenthood, which said any further delay is inexcusable.
A judge will take up the continuance request Monday morning.

Filed in October 2007, the case has been mired in a four-year legal trench fight over access to the very records that were destroyed, as well as other issues.

Peter Brownlie, president of Planned Parenthood of Kansas and Mid-Missouri, said the latest turn was another instance of the state bungling a case initiated by Kline when he was Kansas attorney general from 2003 to 2007.

“Our contention all along has been there is no evidence of any criminal wrongdoing,” Brownlie said. “I believe this leaves the district attorney in a position where he has no evidence, period.”

Abortion opponents were so stunned by the latest revelation that they hard to time articulating their reaction.
“Unbelievable,” said Mary Kay Culp, executive director of Kansans for Life.

“We don’t believe for one second this was anything but purposefully done to protect the abortion industry.”
The shredding occurred when KDHE was under former Democratic Gov. Kathleen Sebelius, an abortion rights supporter. Officials at KDHE, now part of Republican Gov. Sam Brownback’s administration, declined com
​

 

[moreluck]

Clinic: We Do Abortions With No Disturbing Suction Noise | LifeNews.com

 

[moreluck]

When I was growing up, the Sunday Special was fried chicken with mashed potatoes and gravy !!!!!



, November 7, 2011 @ 7:37 pm | Orlando Abortion Clinic Advertises $50 Discount For Sunday Abortions… This will make your stomach turn.