And while we are on the subject of Unions

[swampy1]

Those good old days. And it is soon to be August first. Time for that pay raise and this year a COLA. $1.09 an hour. I can't wait to hear all the complaints that it is not enough. What ever happened to the joy of getting a raise? You get it whether you earned it or not. But wait, I worked all year and I "deserve" it!! When your mate tells you they deserve a new car let's see what you say then!!

 

[susiedriver]

I find it interesting that the AFLCIO went to California to meet with and direct the illegals there that are tired of working for 15 bucks an hour. They are holding out for 17-18 an hour, and the AFLCIO went out there to help in the process.

...

dBoy, I hadn't heard that. Where did you get that info from?

 

[dannyboy]

Heard it on the radio news today. Oldies channel I think, not sure. No more, not that old.

It seems like the illegals are not satisfied with the day labor rate of 15 bucks an hour, so they are holding out for more. Maybe we need to get more illegals in......

d

 

[susiedriver]

Heard it on the radio news today. Oldies channel I think, not sure. No more, not that old.

It seems like the illegals are not satisfied with the day labor rate of 15 bucks an hour, so they are holding out for more. Maybe we need to get more illegals in......

d

Gotcha dBoy.

I thought to myself, where would dBoy get info like that? So I wander over to the wingnut dittohead site, and sure enough, Rush 'Little Woody' Limbaugh was ranting about it. Great source, you actually found something less trustworthy than Faux News.

 

[dannyboy]

Well thats all nice and good, but the radio I have cant get in AM stations. It only works when it is plugged in, and AM has nothing but static. So while it is nice that you listened to Rush (see, expanding your learning curve is good for the mind), I didn't/couldn't.

But with your keen mind and search capability it should be a cake walk to get that information.

d

 

[wkmac]

Dboy,
I don't know of what you spoke of from the radio but I do know that the AFLCIO has been active in the immigrant population for a variety of reasons. Like or dislike, they are active in making sure that labor law is not violated with these folks as a labor precedent could then be used against American citizen workers in the labor adminstrative process including the courts. I'm no fan of AFLCIO but I do agree this as a legit concern on their part.

Also, our nation's history as it pertains to business expansion and yes you could read empirical expansion here has been done with the use of cheap labor. First it was African Americans both as slave and then as free persons but then you had the Chinese and Irish in the latter 1800's, European immigrants in the early 20th century and now the focus is on the folks south of the border. The cheap labor threatens the present wage structure just as when someone in your neighborhood sells their house way below market value it can tend to bring the value of the surrounding houses down if that trend is able to continue. Labor is no different. Think and Mom and Pop hardware or Goods Supply or Grocery Store as the American workforce but now think of Walmart as the immigrant worker. Now this example may be some distasteful and maybe even over the top, I'll conceed that, but in the case of supply and demand economics this is life and who's growing and spreading and getting their way in the overall marketplace and who's strinking more and more? Mom and Pop in many cases are now working for Walmart.

Based on that line of thinking, I could see the AFLCIO doing what you described or something along those lines because it brings the overall wage floor up which in the end helps AFLCIO protect it's membership. AFLCIO's website has lots of info for immigrant workers so they are active in that area. As for the illegals, they aren't going anywhere as the republicans want them for the cheap labor as they are helping to drive this economy right now even with what drain they may place on local and state infastructure. The democrats see them as another voting block to add to their numbers so in the end neither side really wants to do anything to upset the apple cart.

As much as I hate to admit it, Sweeney and the AFLCIO in the end may be doing us all a big favor if in fact he is out there fighting to get them higher wages. Just another way of looking at this.

 

[dannyboy]

Except for one thing. As the minimum wage rises, say to 10 dollars, will our wage stay the same proportionately? In other words, will we be making 45 bucks an hour when the minimum is 10.

If that is the case, then tell me how it helps. Because if that is the case, everything will end up being much more in cost.

Besides, how can you say 15 bucks an hour for day labor is not sufficient? I know many people that would love to have a job that paid that much.

My nephew works for me part time, and he makes what his mother does within a few dollars a week, and I pay him min wage for now.

I just dont get how raising the min wage gets anybody anything. A min wage job is one that gets you started in the job market, not something that you intend to keep the rest of your life and raise a family on.

d

 

[susiedriver]

dBoy,

I see where you are coming from, and agree to a point. You should also realize that the 'day laborers' in question are actually performing 'skilled' and 'semi-skilled' jobs. For example, many of these 'day laborers' are working at skilled tile and drywall installers, painters, and building trades jobs. They are not, for the most part, digging holes or raking rocks.

 

[dannyboy]

Susie, many of these day labor workers are not really all that skilled, but they have been taught many different skills and can do several. But as a practical matter, they work what is available when it is available. I had the opportunity to work next to many while I did some work in Florida.

So the problem still remains. How much is enough? What dollar amount is the minimum for wages in this country? And what does it matter that the labor is skilled or unskilled as to what the pay is. There is a registered nurse that has opted to work at Hardees. So what should her pay be, around 6 bucks the going wage at Hardees, or 30, the going wage for nurses? After all she does have skills. And a very good education.

d

 

[susiedriver]

Susie, many of these day labor workers are not really all that skilled, but they have been taught many different skills and can do several. But as a practical matter, they work what is available when it is available. I had the opportunity to work next to many while I did some work in Florida.

So the problem still remains. How much is enough? What dollar amount is the minimum for wages in this country? And what does it matter that the labor is skilled or unskilled as to what the pay is. There is a registered nurse that has opted to work at Hardees. So what should her pay be, around 6 bucks the going wage at Hardees, or 30, the going wage for nurses? After all she does have skills. And a very good education.

d

dBoy, obviously if a nurse decides to work flipping burgers, they would be paid the going rate for flipping burgers.

So you worked along side immigrant day laborers in Florida? Were they performing skilled work, or hauling rock, digging holes? Did they do they job adequately? How much were they paid in relation to what you were paid? How were they paid compared to what legal workers were paid for the same work? Tell us what your experiences were.

I have a college degree, and in my life I've had to work the jobs that were available at the time, too. I don't see that as indicative of anything other than a good work ethic.

 

[dannyboy]

I've had to work the jobs that were available at the time, too. I don't see that as indicative of anything other than a good work ethic.

A good work ethic and having to work to feed your family are not always the same thing.

As for the experiences in Florida, let me tell you of one guy.

He lives ( finds a place to stay cheap) near Marco Island. He bikes his way every morning to Naples to hopefully get a chance to work. Notice, I said to hopefully get the CHANCE to work. The ride takes 2.5-3 hours each way, and he is there by 7-7:15. Then he works just as hard as any person at UPS. He did several jobs for us, some would be considered skilled, some not. He was very interested in doing a good job, and to please us with exceptional performance.

While I was spraying the pond (full body suit, mask, gloves etc) in the 95F+++black pond without any breeze, he volunteered to be the hose man. Something that no one else wanted to do. Never heard a complaint and was very easy to teach, even though he knew almost no english and we had to rely on another guy there to translate. He and I ended up working several 12-13 hour days in the heat.

For this he was paid $10 an hour, with another 2-3 an hour going to the Mexican mafia (read union officials) that saw to it they got to work. You didnt pay them, you didnt get any workers, or the workers that refused to ante up, did not get to work. So in Florida they have already learned well from the brothers at the AFLCIO?

As to the legal workers, they got paid more, but they actually probably took home less, because of taxes. When you make 15 bucks an hour, and you pay income taxes.........

As for the work ethic, I would have recommended the guy for any UPS position anywhere. Any job we asked him to do, he did so willingly and to the best of his abilities. I can say that he was not the norm though. I would love to put his name in the post, but it was really odd. The others you had to stay on to keep them working.

As for skilled vs unskilled, it depends on how you look at each job they were asked to do. Some of each at the very least.

d PS, we could never have gotten anyone to work for what I got paid. I did it to help out a friend in the business. All he paid me was a bit of gas money, motel room, and some meals. During the day and evening, I bought the guy that helped me his meals and drinks, as we needed drinks about every 10 minutes or so.

 

[bisongolfer]

Great source, you actually found something less trustworthy than Faux News.

Are you serious? Let me guess...you're a fan of the NY Times

I guess it's ok for the liberal nutcases to disclose confidential information pertaining to our national security. No wonder the NY Times is doing so [-]well[/-]; announcing an 11% reduction of actual paper size, and the removal of 1/3 of its production work force.

How about explaining why CBS Evening News was one of the only networks to not cover this story when just about everyone else, including Al-Jazeera, had a story on it. Funny how CBS gets all over Bush for using a bad word (name one democrat who hasnt), "****" during a PRIVATE conversation with Blair, but sees nothing wrong with the Times' actions.

Or why Newt Gingrich's $400,000 book deal while he was in Congress caused Media outrage and Senator Hillary Rodham's $8 million book deal elicited media praise! Why Susie? Please explain... woo me with your amazing liberal intellect.

 

[susiedriver]

Bison,

Work on those anger issues. I am not an apologist for the 'liberal' movement.

I take it, from the tone of your posts, that you are management at UPS. How about working on getting the value of my investment in UPS on a positive track?

As far as leaking national security issues, ask Karl Rove when it is alright and when it isn't.

You want to talk about Bush and his G8 impression? Where should I start, his unwanted groping or his banal comments, his bad jokes, or his pig fetish? His use of slang at least made him appear somewhat human, but the 'Yo Blair' pretty much typifies the depth of his understanding of foreign affairs. Who do you think turned the mic on? Blair finally turned it off, at least he was smart enough to notice. My guess it was the Chinese President, getting even for Bush's treatment when he visited the White House.

BTW, Newties book deal was for north of $4,000,000 not $400,000. The Senate changed the laws regarding this sort of thing in 2000-2001, exempting themselves in the process. Your tax dollars at work, call your US Senator and complain.

BTW, Love your Xanga page! LOL

 

[dannyboy]

How about working on getting the value of my investment in UPS on a positive track?

If you were really worried about your investment at UPS, why would you have sued them?

d

 

[bisongolfer]

I have no anger issues, I simply have opinions like everyone else...if you don't like them, get over it.

The fact that you even took the time to find my Xanga, regardless of how hard or easy it is, is rather pathetic. I guess you truly have nothing else better to do. And while I thought others were being harsh in accusing you of being a stalker, I now realize they are right. Trying to find a strangers information online is usually considered odd behavior. Are you a sexual predator? I saw a story on dateline about people like you.

As for getting the value of your investment on track, you should consider yourself lucky to have an employee like me working for the company you invest in. I do my best everyday not because I'm worried about investors like you, but because I take pride in the work I do. The desire to be successful should come naturally, not by the motivation of stock prices.

 

[bisongolfer]

I forgot something...FREAK!

 

[susiedriver]

If you were really worried about your investment at UPS, why would you have sued them?

d

My confidentiality statement doesn't allow me to disclose that information.

BTW, Thank You for sharing your experience of working with an illegal immigrant. It seems as though you found him to be hard working and honest. Now if we just granted him legal status, think what a boon he would be to our country. Also if he was legal, he wouldn't be at the mercy of the 'Mexican mafia' to provide him with a place to work without fear of arrest.

 

[susiedriver]

I forgot something...FREAK!

You call me a freak? You'd better delete your page before your boss sees it. Don't forget the Google cache, too! Funny you should mention the sexual predator thing, given some of your comments. Love the face paint!

 

[tieguy]

tie,

You wouldn't be from Glen Burnie, would you?

Too funny!

LOL, thats good. Susie is trying to find me so she can stalk me next. Not a bad first dart about 300 miles off the mark but not bad.

 

[moreluck]

Bison....thanks for your hard work.....stock was up $1.48 today. That's over $80 again. Maybe Susie will really leave this time.