Beards

Mugarolla

Light 'em up!
I am arguing that they shouldn't.
It's their company, and you chose to work for them.

You knew their policy when you signed on. And now you want it changed.

Nothing wrong with trying to change it, but don't get your hopes up.

According to your reasoning, the company also has the right to forbid all facial hair
Correct.

And it's not just my reasoning. It's the law.

And I just happen to agree with the law.

I will also assert that the only reason you, and the others who agree with you, affirm the company's illegitimate right is because you agree with their decision on this matter.
Nope.

I don't agree with everything in the contract, but I enforce it.

I also agree that a company has the right to enforce a dress code, as they see fit, to any of their employees who are seen by the public.

My opinion on beards doesn't matter.

What about requiring shaving eyebrows. How about shaving off all your hair? How about that standard for women as well? What about no glasses, 'cause glasses are for nerds, only contact lenses? What about requiring everyone to have straight teeth, and they must get braces if their teeth aren't straight enough? What about required tooth whit
Now you're starting to sound ridiculous.

Where exactly is the line? What is ok and not ok for the company to require for appearance standards?
The courts have pretty much already decided how far a company can go.

No, they can't tell you that you have to shave your eyebrows.

They can't tell you you have to straighten or whiten your teeth.

They can't tell you that you cannot wear glasses.

But, they can tell you that you cannot have a beard, or mustache.

They can tell you you cannot have any facial jewelry.

They can tell you you cannot have any facial tattoos.

They can tell you your hair had to be above your ears and off your collar.
 

burrheadd

KING Of GIFS
I was wondering how long before someone let loose this fallacy.

Ergo decedo - Wikipedia

I am not arguing that the company doesn't have the right. I am arguing that they shouldn't. I will also assert that the only reason you, and the others who agree with you, affirm the company's illegitimate right is because you agree with their decision on this matter.

According to your reasoning, the company also has the right to forbid all facial hair, I think we can agree to that point. What about requiring shaving eyebrows? How about shaving off all your hair? How about that standard for women as well? What about no glasses, 'cause glasses are for nerds, only contact lenses? What about requiring everyone to have straight teeth, and they must get braces if their teeth aren't straight enough? What about required tooth whitening? What about required tanning?

Where exactly is the line? What is ok and not ok for the company to require for appearance standards? And why?
did you not know the requirements when you were hired?

if you feel so strongly about this then you need to negotiate for it

otherwise quit whining
 

tourists24

Well-Known Member
It may be company policy, but the company isn’t enforcing the policy. So grow the beard if you like. You get paid the same
 

Mugarolla

Light 'em up!
It may be company policy, but the company isn’t enforcing the policy. So grow the beard if you like. You get paid the same
Legally, under HIPAA regulations, your supervisor or Center Manager is not allowed to ask you if you have a medical waiver for your beard.
 

Poop Head

Lovin' every minute of it!
It is and it isn’t. I’ve had no problem shaving every other day for 15 years. Shave every day and I break out pretty bad.

Soon as a couple other guys got beard waivers boss decided to be a total D* about anyone that didn’t shave that morning. Was never a problem for years and suddenly a little scruff is the end of the world.

So guess what I got a dr note.


By him making a huge deal out of it he’s had it go from like 2 guys with notes to 50% of the drivers with notes and many more talking about getting one. Simply because they get their ass jumped if they don’t shave 1 day every couple months.
Their plan now, is they want us looking like bearded hobos. That way, when they replace us with bearded hobos (for 1/3 the cost) , people won't think anything of it.
 

zubenelgenubi

Well-Known Member
It's their company, and you chose to work for them.

You knew their policy when you signed on. And now you want it changed.

Nothing wrong with trying to change it, but don't get your hopes up.



Correct.

And it's not just my reasoning. It's the law.

And I just happen to agree with the law.



Nope.

I don't agree with everything in the contract, but I enforce it.

I also agree that a company has the right to enforce a dress code, as they see fit, to any of their employees who are seen by the public.

My opinion on beards doesn't matter.



Now you're starting to sound ridiculous.



The courts have pretty much already decided how far a company can go.

No, they can't tell you that you have to shave your eyebrows.

They can't tell you you have to straighten or whiten your teeth.

They can't tell you that you cannot wear glasses.

But, they can tell you that you cannot have a beard, or mustache.

They can tell you you cannot have any facial jewelry.

They can tell you you cannot have any facial tattoos.

They can tell you your hair had to be above your ears and off your collar.
I'll have to see evidence of these court decisions. There is nothing fundamentally different about any of the appearance issues I brought up. Why are some things ok to require, and others not? The question is, if the company did require appearance standards that you found intolerable, would you still affirm their right to set that standard, or would you advocate to revoke it?

did you not know the requirements when you were hired?

if you feel so strongly about this then you need to negotiate for it

otherwise quit whining
I do know, acknowledge, and follow the guidelines. I am advocating for change, and don't think it's something the union needs to spend bargaining leverage on, especially since there are already ways around it if someone does feel strongly about it. To me it is something the company needs to acknowledge they are wrong about.

What whining have I done?
 

burrheadd

KING Of GIFS
I'll have to see evidence of these court decisions. There is nothing fundamentally different about any of the appearance issues I brought up. Why are some things ok to require, and others not? The question is, if the company did require appearance standards that you found intolerable, would you still affirm their right to set that standard, or would you advocate to revoke it?



I do know, acknowledge, and follow the guidelines. I am advocating for change, and don't think it's something the union needs to spend bargaining leverage on, especially since there are already ways around it if someone does feel strongly about it. To me it is something the company needs to acknowledge they are wrong about.

What whining have I done?
If you think you can change it then go on with your bad self
 

zubenelgenubi

Well-Known Member
Forced shaving is symbolic castration. Masculinity is a problem for those who would try to control others. It's a way for insecure control freaks to establish dominance over people they have no respect for. Those of you who are ok with it ought understand the real reason they do it. It's not about professional appearance, it's about you admitting and accepting that they have made you their beyotch.

Employers who respect their employees don't need to put on these little shows of established dominance.
 
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burrheadd

KING Of GIFS
Forced shaving is symbolic castration. Masculinity is a problem for those who would try to control others. It's a way for insecure control freaks to establish dominance over people they have no respect for. Those of you who are ok with it ought understand the real reason they do it. It's not about professional appearance, it's about you admitting and accepting that they have made you their beyotch.

Employer who respects their employees don't need to put on these little shows of established dominance.
lemme guess

you’re a millennial
 

burrheadd

KING Of GIFS
Forced shaving is symbolic castration. Masculinity is a problem for those who would try to control others. It's a way for insecure control freaks to establish dominance over people they have no respect for. Those of you who are ok with it ought understand the real reason they do it. It's not about professional appearance, it's about you admitting and accepting that they have made you their beyotch.

Employer who respects their employees don't need to put on these little shows of established dominance.
while your at it I’d have them get rid
of those crappy brown uniforms you should be able to wear whatever you’d like
 

zubenelgenubi

Well-Known Member
while your at it I’d have them get rid
of those crappy brown uniforms you should be able to wear whatever you’d like
They are changing them next year, didn't you hear?
Uniforms and dress codes aren't an overreach into my personal life, but I do oppose employers making employees pay for uniforms, so I appreciate the union holding the line there. And no, not a millenial. Closer to Gen X, but I actually don't fall within the "official" year range for either.
 
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