Cherry picking for easy warning letters...

[Cezanne]

No you don't and I want to comment on this statement...

"But because of the short sightedness of management with socks as your fearless leader, you have shown that you do not value any input from the hourly"

Your right I don't value your input because it is meaningless.. You work as instructed and that is it. No one of any importance respects anything you say or values it. You can be anything you want to be on this website but in the real world I control you. I make you be cleaned shaved and I make you abide by my rules. In the end game you can say whatever you want but you live and survive by my sword. In the big picture talk is cheap, and so is your services....

You are so, so easy. I know I'm going to regret this, but I just can't control myself. (Please describe your sword)?

 

[tieguy]

My bets are on Danny and Lifer.

Save your money honey one has dropped out and the other one is out in left field arguing points I never raised or defended.

 

[tieguy]

I can only attest to the facts known to me, as being correct.
The attrition rate, in all levels of UPS, is a known.
I do have many personal flaws.
My major flaw is that I am right, until I can be proven wrong.
You use the term, "on this one".
There is no way for me to distill this morphed thread into "one" single concept of right and wrong perceptions.
On a funny note, while I was reading your post I was listening to "Industrial Disease" by Dire Straits.
Just when I read this,
I'm not sure why we both can't be right on this one?
the lyrics of the song said;
"Two men say they're Jesus one of them must be wrong."
Karma, neh?

Sat its real simple

we're not arguing over who is jesus christ here.

you said you have lost 12 of 13.

I've said I've not had attrition rates anywhere near what you have seen.

Again why does one of us have to be right and one wrong when both are relaying what we have personally seen?

 

[tonyexpress]

Let's leave the farm animals out of it.

Stick to the topic about warning letters and quit with the insults.

 

[tieguy]

Have you ever worked WITH anyone ever in your life at UPS or anywhere else?

I don't need you to tell me to be safe. I do it because I don't want to be injured or killed.

You don't see what everyone is telling you.

Have you ever driven without having your hands at 10 and 2 on the steering wheel while on the clock for UPS?

If you have then you are being hypocritical to say that it warrants a warning letter.

If you haven't , then you are just an arrogant ****.

Let's leave the farm animals out of it.

Stick to the topic about warning letters and quit with the insults.

Are you referring to the comment I posted in response to Re-raises out of the blue Arrogant **** comment?

 

[tonyexpress]

Are you referring to the comment I posted in response to Re-raises out of the blue Arrogant **** comment?

Oh....I've had to edit so many posts lately that I must have lost track...

Let's move on...

 

[tieguy]

You don't see what everyone is telling you.

Have you ever driven without having your hands at 10 and 2 on the steering wheel while on the clock for UPS?

If you have then you are being hypocritical to say that it warrants a warning letter.

If you haven't , then you are just an arrogant ****.

Is it possible that there are management that strongly believe in safe work methods?

I not only believe in 10 and 2 and push pull on the job, I do so off the job.
I teach that you practice the methods all the time to save your behind those 5 times a lifetime when you'll need them to save your life.

how about you ReeeRaise who does not need any safety training cause you're perfect
do you keep your hands at the 10 and 2 all the time?
Do you use the push pull methods of steering? all the time?

I can tell by your hatred for management here that you'll not use those methods just to spite us.
See if you actually used them you would be on here selling them.
you're another casualty waiting for your casualty
because you selectively apply the methods
because you think you know it all so much better then this company.

Don't come on this site crying when you make your job ending mistake, cause I'll be here to remind you of how hard headed you were.
i just hope your arrogance does not get you or someone else killed.

 

[UPS Lifer]

Save your money honey one has dropped out and the other one is out in left field arguing points I never raised or defended.

Apparently this is a duel to the death! LOL! Problem is I don't live in the dark ages or 1800's and I am in Maui soaking up the sun and contrary to what some people do, I don't bring my computer down to the pool.

After seeing the way one poster, who is a guy, twists the posts anyway he wants to to make his point, I can't see any reason to keep on feeding that.

But something has come to mind, with all this banter back and forth.... something that I thought of the first time I saw a post from upssocks. I put him on my ignore list and completely ignored the posts he makes. The only time he surfaces on my computer is during a reply with quote. So it got me to thinking again....

There is a type of computerized schizophrenia.... multiple personalities going on. I strongly believe that upssocks is a certain management poster we have grown to love/hate. This "guy" invented socks and uses those posts to vent his disdain and anger toward union members. This guy thinks he is putting one over on the community. The guy can then deflect his anger through socks. What a great way to keep the moderators off his back. The guy also keeps a modicum of credibility by doing that. Bravo!

It is hard to completely cover one's writing signature and style and I would bet the IP addresses are the smoking gun.

I am keeping socks on ignore so I won't be sucked into the murky brown sludge.

I calls um like I seez um.... I will let you decide!!!

 

[tieguy]

Apparently this is a duel to the death! LOL! Problem is I don't live in the dark ages or 1800's and I am in Maui soaking up the sun and contrary to what some people do, I don't bring my computer down to the pool.

After seeing the way one poster, who is a guy, twists the posts anyway he wants to to make his point, I can't see any reason to keep on feeding that.

But something has come to mind, with all this banter back and forth.... something that I thought of the first time I saw a post from upssocks. I put him on my ignore list and completely ignored the posts he makes. The only time he surfaces on my computer is during a reply with quote. So it got me to thinking again....

There is a type of computerized schizophrenia.... multiple personalities going on. I strongly believe that upssocks is a certain management poster we have grown to love/hate. This "guy" invented socks and uses those posts to vent his disdain and anger toward union members. This guy thinks he is putting one over on the community. The guy can then deflect his anger through socks. What a great way to keep the moderators off his back. The guy also keeps a modicum of credibility by doing that. Bravo!

It is hard to completely cover one's writing signature and style and I would bet the IP addresses are the smoking gun.

I am keeping socks on ignore so I won't be sucked into the murky brown sludge.

I calls um like I seez um.... I will let you decide!!!

darn I thought you left for hawaii.

 

[tieguy]

darn I thought you left for hawaii.

I think you could have done more to sell safe work methods. Ultimately safety comes down to the drudgery of teaching and using safe work methods. No matter your management style you eventually have to have a process of validating whether your people use those methods. Thats when they get defensive as this thread has shown.

You can see em squirming . They know the message is right and they don't know how to deal with it. They want to point the finger at the company for poor safety results but everytime they do they find four fingers pointing back at them.

 

[dannyboy]

I would be interested for instance in knowing why drivers don't follow the methods they are taught

and I would be interested in finding out why you don't think a steward should encourage drivers to follow the methods and work safely.

Ill explain when you explain why managers for instance, insist on violating the contract that they have signed? Or that same integrity that is displayed when they insist that they will work sups as much as they can, when ever they can, and it's up to the membership to catch them at violating the contract.

And explain why you think I ought to assist you in the safety picture at my building after you swore to me that safety would not be used as a discipline tool, but yet here you are, handing out warning letters like a cupid on valentines day......

Tell me why you want me to support you again, on anything you say and do.....

As for taking posts and turning them around, you are well equipped to do so. You know my stand on safety. And when a warning letter is due, then let it fly.

But to misuse the proper teaching methods because you are too lazy or short sighted to attempt another means of teaching.......well I guess if you know no other way.

I will read the rest of the posts later and respond.

But for now, sorry. You have put the steward on the defense because of your lies to the safety committee. Why should I support a single thing you say or do?

I know you will attempt to spin this to say that I dont care about driver safety, but you and the rest of the board know better.

d

 

[tieguy]

Ill explain when you explain why managers for instance, insist on violating the contract that they have signed? Or that same integrity that is displayed when they insist that they will work sups as much as they can, when ever they can, and it's up to the membership to catch them at violating the contract.

And explain why you think I ought to assist you in the safety picture at my building after you swore to me that safety would not be used as a discipline tool, but yet here you are, handing out warning letters like a cupid on valentines day......

Tell me why you want me to support you again, on anything you say and do.....

As for taking posts and turning them around, you are well equipped to do so. You know my stand on safety. And when a warning letter is due, then let it fly.

But to misuse the proper teaching methods because you are too lazy or short sighted to attempt another means of teaching.......well I guess if you know no other way.

I will read the rest of the posts later and respond.

But for now, sorry. You have put the steward on the defense because of your lies to the safety committee. Why should I support a single thing you say or do?

I know you will attempt to spin this to say that I dont care about driver safety, but you and the rest of the board know better.

d

I'm not sure why you wasted your time posting another evasive answer?

 

[tieguy]

Ill explain when you explain why managers for instance, insist on violating the contract that they have signed? Or that same integrity that is displayed when they insist that they will work sups as much as they can, when ever they can, and it's up to the membership to catch them at violating the contract.

Danny I can't believe you would tell drivers to be unsafe just because you feel your management team violated some part of the contract?

And explain why you think I ought to assist you in the safety picture at my building after you swore to me that safety would not be used as a discipline tool, but yet here you are, handing out warning letters like a cupid on valentines day......

I'm not sure who "you" is referring too. We can come up with all the slogans and feel good sessions you want but at some point discipline will have to be used to hold people accountable for their actions. I will tell you I won't give much discipline but I will not promise you that I won't use discipline.

Tell me why you want me to support you again, on anything you say and do.....

I don't want you to support me at all. Not at all. I simply want you to support drivers working safely because I thought you believe safety. Was I wrong?

As for taking posts and turning them around, you are well equipped to do so. You know my stand on safety. And when a warning letter is due, then let it fly.

Danny i thought I knew your stance on safety. Now I don't think I do. I've never a steward refuse to tell people to work safe.

But to misuse the proper teaching methods because you are too lazy or short sighted to attempt another means of teaching.......well I guess if you know no other way.

Now we are on that mystical other way again. The other way is a dodge that you and others here have come up with to avoid accountability.

I train you.
I tell you.
If I am a nice guy I ask you to do what I told you and trained you to do.
After that what did you want me to do?
Look the other way?
Find a different way to tell you?
Tell a hundred more times?
where does the search for a better way stop? When do we start doing what the boss tells us to do?


I will read the rest of the posts later and respond.

Don't bother if your heart is not in to really fixing the problem.
when you respond you have to come up with an answer on how to get people to do what they know they should do.

But for now, sorry. You have put the steward on the defense because of your lies to the safety committee. Why should I support a single thing you say or do?

Danny are you ok? On medication? who lied to your safety committee? I've never been to your building?

I know you will attempt to spin this to say that I dont care about driver safety, but you and the rest of the board know better.

d

Danny I thought I did. The problem I see is you're defending people working unsafely.
At some point to fix safety we have to fix poor safe methods.
I recently went through a safety blitz like the one Soberups complained about.
I have never ,ever seen anything more positive. The whole week was spent discussing training and positive feedback.
I'm not sure where sobers safety blitz went wrong but the whole safety blitz concept is very positive.
I had a nice discussion with one of the liberty mutual folks where she talked about using positive feedback to encourage safe behaviour.
All that sounds great and is right up my alley.
At some point though you have validate the process.
you have to make sure your people are working safely.
thats where the observations come in.
If I then see the person doing something unsafe do I look the other way. Ignore it all?
talk him to death and hope it gets better.

How do you yourself handle a bank errors where the bank keeps shorting you of money.
do you give em a hug and tell em to try harder next time?

This issue will test your personal committment to safety.
if you really believe in people working safely then you have to acknowledge that accountability is a big part of the solution.
if not then give it some good sounding lip service and move on.

 

[Dragon]

I train you.
I tell you.
If I am a nice guy I ask you to do what I told you and trained you to do. After that what did you want me to do?
Look the other way?
Find a different way to tell you?
Tell a hundred more times?
where does the search for a better way stop? When do we start doing what the boss tells us to do?

cause the "union" says I don't hafta......

Great reply Tie give them another one.

 

[dannyboy]

Your right tie. I was going to let it go, but you have convinced me to sue the center manager for damages, and UPS as well, since they have the deep pockets, and the guy was working under their instructions. I think its about time we held everybody accountable for their actions. You are right.

After all, I was working as instructed by that very center manager when I damaged my knee past repair, doing what I was instructed, but what was instructed was opposite of what the company doctor restricted me to do. The very injury that cost my employment at ups. So when he gets the paperwork, Ill tell him to thank you.

Its not hard to figure out that you probably do a better job of following the methods when you know you are being watched.

What you meant to say was

Its not hard to figure out that you probably do a better job of following the CONTRACT when you know you are being watched.

But yet I find it so interesting that when we post that we are watching you violate the contract, you gripe and complain about us watching you. Whats the difference? Twin standards?

Tie, I have stated and will state again, if the driver intentionally disregards instructions, you dont have a choice. Let the warning letter fly.

But you even posted that Sober had no idea of why it was important for the ten and two positions, but yet instead of explaining the importance, a warning letter was issued, and a great learning opportunity was passed over for a show of power.

Indeed, it is UPSocks and the dumb and dumber mentality that has UPS in its grips.

Again, as I posted, I was very involved in safety, and the injury/accident rates showed a great improvement, once we got by the artificial rates caused by hiding injuries. But with the changes over the last two months, the progress made by the safety committee got kicked back to the stone age.

You again rule the safety committee with the iron fist. Its all hail the powers that be.

As socks posted, Ye are Gods, WE are but mindless robots who need to be guided and maintained by force.

d

 

[tieguy]

Tie, I have stated and will state again, if the driver intentionally disregards instructions, you dont have a choice. Let the warning letter fly.

d[/QUOTE]

Ok then if we agree on that point why the debate?

Now whats next.

Do I wait for the driver to come into my office and violate a safety method or should I as a manager actually go out and verify that the driver is working safely.

If we agree that the manager or supervisor should go out and see if his people are following instructions then we have no argument?

 

[dannyboy]

I addressed the point that Sober thought the push/ pull methods was encouraged to avoid carpal tunnel. For some reason a professional driver did not know that the push/ pull methods affords you the maximum vehcile control during a turn.

Now I guess the question is why am I missing something here? Should I let sober continue to believe that the push/pull is some BS method meant to prevent carpal tunnel syndrome liability. Maybe I should emulate the manager who's but you kissed and tell Sober that an answer will come to him telepathically from some higher power.

No tie, but you expect that telepathy to mystically let him know why it is important in the first place.

After all, with the extensive training that drivers get from ups management about how to get the job done quickly, most of us were never trained in methods. To be sure, methods were regularly referred to, but it seems very few had ever heard, and fewer still seen, the elusive methods.

And of course with the mindless regurgitation of the clips for Keter, we really didn't take the time to explain the importance of why certain methods were there. We used the HAMMER program. Do as I say to do, or I will make you sorry. I dont have to explain myself, just do as you are told.

The socks method of training. Nobody knows for sure what the spanking is for, and what exactly we must do to avoid the spankings in the future, but it makes the maroon at the other end of the belt happy, because it shows the higher ups that we are serious about safety.

Wow, stone age communications.

And I thought we evolved to better ways.........

d

 

[Re-Raise]

I guess what's funny is the fact that managers still cling to this safety garbage as if it's the covenant. You aren't doing anything special and you aren't having any impact on safety whatsoever.

You guys are talking to a wall dressed in brown when you preach this trash. Nobody cares about your safety rhymes, this isn't kindergarten. Nobody cares about what you think is a healthy lifestyle, considering every center manager and onroad sup in our building can be seen chain-smoking outside the office 24/7. You guys are a bunch of overpaid, underworked, hypocritical deadwood floating around in a big brown sea. It's no wonder they are buying you guys out -- you are worthless. Stop treating grown men and women like children and maybe you'll earn a shred of respect back from the people you allegedly manage.

I have no accidents and no injuries for my entire career at UPS -- P/T and friend/T. I hate your safety program and I do not endorse it in any form. It will be my honor to reject the Circle of Honor and everything it means when it comes my way -- keep your Century21 jacket.

UPS proved up in the Philadelphia area they do not care about safety at ALL when they sent drivers out during that horrible blizzard this winter. From what I heard they called them back after an hour. The people in the ivory tower in Atlanta forced them to send drivers out. That event sums up safety at UPS for me -- A JOKE.

+ 1

They won't believe you but we all know you speak the truth.

 

[tieguy]

+ 1

They won't believe you but we all know you speak the truth.

who's they you hearing voices again?

 

[Re-Raise]

If UPS had to choose between your safety and our customers what do you think it would be?

I am hoping to get this blown up and laminated for the wall in the driver locker room at my center.

Giving Tieguy... oops .... I mean Socks.... wink wink.. full credit of course.