Time to lock this thread! Nothing good could out of leaving this open, anything that could have been said has been and than some.
Tie
What you dont seem to understand is that the driver is damned if he does, and damned if he does not.
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What do you mean by infractions Red? He has already accused me of abusing my kids and having sex with animals on this thread. I have only accused him of being arrogant and a clown for thinking he can eliminate accidents and inuries with a PCM on the methods.
Save your money honey one has dropped out and the other one is out in left field arguing points I never raised or defended.
Drivers don't really like our methods and they find reasons to not do them.
I have come to repect Tie's opinion most of the time. Trust me, we went at it when I was a little younger non stop, boith of my infractions came becasue he got the best of me. Many time he is just trying to get you going.
But as of lately he does seem a little different, maybe he has been fighting to keep his job with all these cutbacks??? Who knows, but if this thread continues someone could get banned, or at least cross the line and say something stupid!! OOOOPPPPSSSS to late!! lol
tieguy;700608 [COLOR=#000080 said:For some reason posters here have a problem believing a management person can be passionate about safe work methods and they don't believe its possible to do so without being some kind of blind supporter of the company.[/COLOR]
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Thats because its not seen that much. There is a greater chance of seeing the lochness monster or big foot. All of these are myths, maybe even yourself!!
Infractions are when you take the browncafe steward into a room with Cheryl and Tony and you are progressively disciplined for contract violations (tos).
tieguy;700608 [COLOR=#000080 said:For some reason posters here have a problem believing a management person can be passionate about safe work methods and they don't believe its possible to do so without being some kind of blind supporter of the company.[/COLOR]
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Thats because its not seen that much. There is a greater chance of seeing the lochness monster or big foot. All of these are myths, maybe even yourself!!
maybe you guys have seen it and never realized it.
these guys here spent a lot of time talking about everything except the benifits of working safe. This thread has been a great exercise. Some people here want to blame the company for everything under the sun when they can be safe simply be following the methods.
This thread was never about the benefits of working safely. It was about "manager's cherry picking for easy warning letters".
Sober hurt his finger hooking up a pup trailer so a supervisor came up with a bs reason to give him a warning letter.
You really can look at the same thing as me and have a completely different version of reality can't you?
He is a 23 year safe driver. You can't admit that this warning will not result in him holding the steering wheel any differently in the future, and that you could issue a warning letter to every UPS driver in the country for this if you wanted to.
At some point they have to move their hands. You lose all crebibility when you continue to deny what is obvious to everyone else.
you complain about my posting too much but you keep begging for my attention.
Sober feels he is a safe driver
His management team feels he is an unsafe driver and gave him a warning letter for poor methods.
bubbles remember how I said you were so eager to try to fire a shot at me that you often rush in without looking?
well my quote was an enhanced repeat of re-raises attack on me. I basically took his bat out of his hands and beat him silly with it.
you just proved my point. I own you.
This thread interests me Red because it gives me a glimpse into the mindset of some of our management people like Tieguy.
They don't see that a warning letter for having your hands in the wrong position on the steering wheel is insane. Don't they realize that we have to shift the vehicle,turn on the wipers, reach out to fix the mirror position or any number of other reasons we might have to move our hands.
Yet they can continue to justify it. It is actually very telling.
I have continued to post on this thread because I find Tieguy arrogant and I have never suffered fools easily.
Drivers don't really like our methods and they find reasons to not do them.
Really? How many drivers have you polled to actually get to make the statements that drivers dont really like the methods?
Now, finding excuses not to follow methods is another story unto itself.
drivers do better when being watched and do take shortcuts when not being watched.
I dont really agree with the whole premise of the being watched argument. Being ridden with maybe. But not just watched. So dont think just cause tie said it, it goes down as a solid truth.
I wish your argument was true. I wish they were 100 percent perfect on methods
Whoa there Tie, no where did I or anyone else say that they were perfect on methods. I would bet the farm I could ride with any circle of honor driver, any center, district, regional safety manager for a day and find methods that have been violated or overlooked.
and that the problem was ups finding things to say they did wrong.
And again, putting words into my mouth. I never said it was a problem with UPS finding things they did wrong. What I find an issue is the low level of intelligence shown by the mindset of issuing a warning letter as the best way to force/encourage people into changing behavior or mentality.
but our drivers are not that good yet.
And beating them over the heads with reams of paperwork is going to make them better?
That is where you and I are in disagreement. Not that the drivers need to become safer and better at methods. Sure they do. But your method of enticement is wrong, and that is where you lost me and others on the message of safety. IT now becomes a them and us dance. Instead of having the driver want to make a choice for safety, you use a bat and tell him it will be used carte blanche on all drivers until they get it.
I believe that is 100% wrong, and the absolute biggest mistake to try and teach people like that a better way.
You know, I do applaud you for the efforts to keep drivers out of harms way, I really do. The problem lies in the fact that the methods are a secret, guarded pile of papers that are proprietary to UPS, and as such, they dont want anyone else to have a copy.For some reason posters here have a problem believing a management person can be passionate about safe work methods and they don't believe its possible to do so without being some kind of blind supporter of the company.
Ah tie, again with the mis characterizations of what has been posted.
I was very passionate about safety, and was not a blind supporter of the company. I believe in our center, the safety picture has improved dramatically over the years, both accident and injury. And it was done with an active involvement of the employees and management as equal partners in the process.
That is the "buy in" that lifer was trying to get you to understand, but you used ridicule instead. And of course you used your alter-ego to even go further with your side of the argument.
My point all along throughout this thread has been:
the company has turned their full attention to the safe work methods
Good, then make them available for the drivers to actually be able to see and read, not expect us to get it through your good intentions and wishes. Lets see the work methods you want us to know and use.
follow the methods and keep yourself out of trouble.
Again, make the methods available to the workforce. How can you issue warning letters when the majority of the drivers have never seen the methods? All we know is what you as management have told us the methods are. We want to see them. If you want to beat us over the heads with them, let us see them. And not bootlegged copies either, the real thing.
thats it though many have tried to divert my attention in different directions and they were sometimes temporarily successful.