Contract leader O'brien

[BigUnionGuy]

I may not have had a problem with being dumped into Teamcare IF we were told it was for the good of all, to keep costs and premiums down.

Do you have a problem.... supporting, your Union Brothers ?



-Bug-

 

[Inthegame]

Costs did not even come up except that UPS wanted us to kick into the Healthcare plan. A negotiating tactic. We could have got them to keep it as it was.

And how do you know that? Even if possible, what would the impact be on the rest of the deal?

How do you know how far UPS was willing to go on this point.

Costs to the employer always comes up in negotiations.

 

[upschuck]

I may not have had a problem with being dumped into Teamcare IF we were told it was for the good of all, to keep costs and premiums down.

Sure

We were not told that. Nothing even close. Costs did not even come up except that UPS wanted us to kick into the Healthcare plan. A negotiating tactic. We could have got them to keep it as it was.

Why do you think they wanted everyone out? Costs of an ever rising program. If you don't think the cost of that program is why they didn't want to insure us anymore, then there is nothing left to say.

And I never said I was special. You think that just because I don't think that solidarity in HC matters in the slightest.

But you do. You want a better HC than the rest of us, Teamcare not good enough for you.

Do you realize how many different HC plans cover UPS employees. There is no solidarity.

Unfortunately, too many. We all do the same job.

And yes, we each want what's best for us. Me wanting to keep my Healthcare would not have cost you a single thing. Nothing wrong with that.

Now, if me keeping my Healthcare knocked your benefits down, I can see your point.

But this was not the case. So no, I am not special.

That is not the union stance, same for everyone. I may work harder than you, should I get paid more? I didn't knock you down at all, same logic. Same job, same benefits.

 

[upschuck]

If what you say is the case, why wouldn't we all be in TeamCare?

Should be

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

UPS wanted out of the healthcare business, in part, to impress their investors.

 

[Peak Cardboard]

Vote no Philly

You have to be the single worst Teamster I've ever seen write something. You've got no goddamned proposal to vote no on but you still want to friendg vote no. Idiot

 

[Mugarolla]

Do you have a problem.... supporting, your Union Brothers ?

Nope. I said "may" because it did not go down that way. It did not happen that way. If it had, I would have accepted it, sooner or later, for being good for the whole. But, it did not have to happen.

And how do you know that? Even if possible, what would the impact be on the rest of the deal?

How do you know how far UPS was willing to go on this point.

Costs to the employer always comes up in negotiations.

Negotiations 101. Start high, ask for the world, bluff.

There was absolutely no talk, on either side, of this healthcare issue affecting any other part of the negotiations.

Sure

Eventually, if that was the only way.

Why do you think they wanted everyone out? Costs of an ever rising program. If you don't think the cost of that program is why they didn't want to insure us anymore, then there is nothing left to say.

They wanted everyone out for the same reason they just spent billions buying out pensions. Investors.

UPS wants to eliminate all unknown future costs because investors do not like unknown costs.

For the same reason UPS wants a matching 401K instead of a defined pension for all new employees. No hidden future costs. All for the investors.

But you do. You want a better HC than the rest of us, Teamcare not good enough for you.

So it is my fault that I had a better health plan than you? You said you were happy with Teamcare. You were content. You didn't want to fight to make yours better, so why should I fight for you.

So don't blame me for fighting to keep mine the same?

That is not the union stance, same for everyone.

You would rather bring me down to your level instead of fighting to come up to my level. That's the union way, in your eyes, I guess.

I may work harder than you, should I get paid more?

Should the new drivers, who probably work harder than you and I combined, be paid more?

Well, wait a minute. They are actually paid less, much less, for 4 years. I guess that is the union way.

But wait, there is light at the end of the tunnel. After 4 years they will be making the same as everyone else, wait, except for the new hires behind him making $15/hr less.

The union stance. The same for everyone. Right.

Same job, same benefits.

Again, tell that to the new hires, or all the other healthplans out there that are not the same as Teamcare, of which there are many.

Or all the different pensions out there, of which, mine is one of the lowest.

Same job, same benefits. Yea, right. Maybe in theory.

 

[anHOURover]

Do you have a problem.... supporting, your Union Brothers ?



-Bug-

bug i can't wait till you get voted out

 

[anHOURover]

You have to be the single worst Teamster I've ever seen write something. You've got no goddamned proposal to vote no on but you still want to friendg vote no. Idiot

hey brother if you would like you talk to me like that id rather have it done in person instead of over the computer please meet me at PHL anytime

 

[upschuck]

They wanted everyone out for the same reason they just spent billions buying out pensions. Investors.

So you're agreeing with me that cost of HC was why they wanted out. You're talking in circles. Before you said it wasn't.

So it is my fault that I had a better health plan than you? You said you were happy with Teamcare. You were content. You didn't want to fight to make yours better, so why should I

Show me where I said I didn't want better HC. I said that what I had was very good insurance. You're hurting your credibility. My local and I voted no on both nma and supp, so you obviously know not what you're saying.

You would rather bring me down to your level instead of fighting to come up to my level. That's the union way, in your eyes, I guess.

See above

Should the new drivers, who probably work harder than you and I combined, be paid more?

Deflection, nice try. Didn't answer the question.

Again, tell that to the new hires, or all the other healthplans out there that are not the same as Teamcare, of which there are many.

Or all the different pensions out there, of which, mine is one of the lowest.

Same job, same benefits. Yea, right. Maybe in theory.

I agree, it is not like it should be, but we can strive for that ideal, but you seem to have given up on that.

 

[5habits100]

hey brother if you would like you talk to me like that id rather have it done in person instead of over the computer please meet me at PHL anytime

Why so you can video yourself being spanked?

 

[Mugarolla]

So you're agreeing with me that cost of HC was why they wanted out. You're talking in circles. Before you said it wasn't.

Not talking circles. They did not mind giving up the healthcare, pay more now, but then they do not have the unknown future costs that the investors don't like.

They would have also kept the healthcare, dealt with the investors side, if the union didn't offer to take it away.

Remember, the union offered to take it from UPS, not the other way around.

Show me where I said I didn't want better HC.

So you wanted better healthcare? So why say that I am special for wanting to keep my better healthcare. You wanted to be like me. Who's talking in circles now?

but you seem to have given up on that

No, the union has given up on that. I am not going to take on the Teamsters to try and make everyone equal. If your happy with your healthcare and pension, more power to you.

I am not, so I will still fight.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Offered? I heard they begged.

 

[upschuck]

Not talking circles. They did not mind giving up the healthcare, pay more now, but then they do not have the unknown future costs that the investors don't like.

Playing both sides, first you said that you'd support it if they would have kept premiums down, then you said investors liked it(Why, because it would save them money, a.k.a. keep premiums down), so in your own words, you should have supported the change in HC.

So you wanted better healthcare? So why say that I am special for wanting to keep my better healthcare. You wanted to be like me. Who's talking in circles now?

Of course, but also a realist.

No, the union has given up on that. I am not going to take on the Teamsters to try and make everyone equal. If your happy with your healthcare and pension, more power to you.

My pension is 100% funded, or very close to it. And the HC is getting better, and thanks again for you contribution.

 

[anHOURover]

Why so you can video yourself being spanked?

I'll stream you all over YouTube
Meet me at the tracks
Vote no headquarters
1 hog island rd
Philadelphia pa 19153

 

[LeadBelly]

I'll stream you all over YouTube
Meet me at the tracks
Vote no headquarters
1 hog island rd
Philadelphia pa 19153

What would you get out of that?

 

[Mugarolla]

Playing both sides, first you said that you'd support it if they would have kept premiums down

No, I said I would have supported it if that was the reason for the change. It was not. Teamcare was very healthy before we were infused. There was no need to change so no, I did not support it for the reasons that they did it.

then you said investors liked it(Why, because it would save them money, a.k.a. keep premiums down)

No, investors liked it because it took away any uncertainty in the future. Investors don't like uncertainty.

so in your own words, you should have supported the change in HC.

No, the change was only necessary to keep investors happy, not to keep premiums down.

and thanks again for you contribution.

You're welcome!

Seriously, there are many employees in a better HC plan than I am in. I am not wanting their benefits reduced to my level just for the sake of all being equal.

I am going to fight to get to their level. If I don't get there, so be it. I am not bitter that they have a better plan than I do. More power to them.

There are many employees in a better pension plan than I am in. I am not wanting their benefits reduced to my level just for the sake of all being equal.

I am going to fight to get to their level. If I don't get there, so be it. I am not bitter that they have a better plan than I do. More power to them.

There are many employees that have better language in their supplements than I have. I am not wanting their language removed just for the sake of all being equal.

I am going to fight to get to their language into my supplement. If I don't get there, so be it. I am not bitter that they have better language than I do. More power to them.

About the only thing the Teamsters push is equal pay, besides the progression, not equal benefits.

 

[anHOURover]

What would you get out of that?

Just want to educate a Brother.
That's all

 

[LeadBelly]

Just want to educate a Brother.
That's all

No offense but I don't take you for a guy that gets physical or likes to fight. Why would you say this to another brother?

 

[anHOURover]

No offense but I don't take you for a guy that gets physical or likes to fight. Why would you say this to another brother?

I want to do a YouTube show with him.
I want him to be a union brother and not a safety snitch