FedEx Loses Suit In Wrongful Dismissal Case

[dezguy]

Anyone who thinks FedEx isn't eagerly watching development of autonomous vehicles, as well as advancements in AI, is living in a fantasy world.

One day we will be replaced by robots and that day is closer than most think.

 

[vantexan]

I know about the tests. But have they actually replaced anyone yet? No.

 

[vantexan]

Anyone who thinks FedEx isn't eagerly watching development of autonomous vehicles, as well as advancements in AI, is living in a fantasy world.

One day we will be replaced by robots and that day is closer than most think.

In very condensed areas, possibly. Not on extended routes. And how do they do pickups?

 

[dezguy]

In very condensed areas, possibly. Not on extended routes. And how do they do pickups?

It will start on condensed routes but if you think it stops there, you're fooling yourself.

Technology is advancing quicker now than any other time in our history. Home computers are 100x more powerful than those from a decade ago and that's home PCs. Some of the smartest minds in the world are working on AI. We are no where near plateauing in the field of AI. What we see now is its infancy and it is developing at an alarming rate.

Couriers will be replaced by automation, the only question is when.

 

[vantexan]

It will start on condensed routes but if you think it stops there, you're fooling yourself.

Technology is advancing quicker now than any other time in our history. Home computers are 100x more powerful than those from a decade ago and that's home PCs. Some of the smartest minds in the world are working on AI. We are no where near plateauing in the field of AI. What we see now is its infancy and it is developing at an alarming rate.

Couriers will be replaced by automation, the only question is when.

I see serious problems with trying to replace couriers but it may well happen. But we've been discussing this over on Current Affairs. Few seem to believe that tens of millions of jobs will be replaced by 2030. That half of all jobs are in danger within two decades. And the pro capitalism at all costs folks seem to not care what happens to those displaced. Going to get very weird soon.

 

[Nolimitz]

Have they stuck to it so far? Truth is that if they stick to it for the next 15 years there will be those every year who will cast doubt on the likelihood of that year's raise. I would say unless the economy goes into a bad recession it's likely they will stick to this new plan. Because what they were doing before was causing unacceptable turnover. It's also likely that unless they're having a stellar year topped out couriers won't receive a bonus. And it's likely as cost of living increases, competition increases wages,etc FedEx from time to time, maybe every 5 years or so, may adjust steps up to stay competitive. But to suggest every year before raises take place that this is the year they're going to screw us is nonsensical. They've pretty much got Ground infrastructure in place. All those years they were taking from Express to accomplish that are over. This is the new normal.

you are so full of your eyes are brown or maybe purple

 

[vantexan]

you are so full of your eyes are brown or maybe purple

We'll see how it turns out. I'm pointing out the way things most likely are, not the way you think they ought to be.

 

[SmithBarney]

Have they stuck to it so far? Truth is that if they stick to it for the next 15 years there will be those every year who will cast doubt on the likelihood of that year's raise. I would say unless the economy goes into a bad recession it's likely they will stick to this new plan. Because what they were doing before was causing unacceptable turnover. It's also likely that unless they're having a stellar year topped out couriers won't receive a bonus. And it's likely as cost of living increases, competition increases wages,etc FedEx from time to time, maybe every 5 years or so, may adjust steps up to stay competitive. But to suggest every year before raises take place that this is the year they're going to screw us is nonsensical. They've pretty much got Ground infrastructure in place. All those years they were taking from Express to accomplish that are over. This is the new normal.

It's only been 2 years, the real sting came to those with 10-14 years with the company, most 10 year employees fell right into STEP 2, or Maybe 3...

 

[fedx]

True, but you start on Step 1 and 9 years later you are at Step 10. Assuming of course that FedEx keeps it word. And as we all know they are paragons of virtue.

But you have to go through year 1 before going to step 2, so it's 10 years at best before you get to step 10.

 

[vantexan]

But you have to go through year 1 before going to step 2, so it's 10 years at best before you get to step 10.

No, do the math. You start at Step 1. At the end of nine years you'll be on Step 10. Don't know how they do partial years.

 

[fedx]

So far, they have a lousy track record of abiding to what they profess.

And

That was before they had 'bots to replace couriers.

The reason why they don't abide very well is simple. They know Express employees can't unionize. If they could unionize, you'd see a whole different step program. You'd have a 4 or 5 step program to top out. Starting pay for couriers would be around $20/hr and RTDs would be around $25/hr in base areas. And that's just to keep the union out. If we actually had a union you'd see even bigger starting pay structures. But since we can't unionize, they know they can screw everyone as much as they want and all you can do is quit if you don't like it.

 

[Route 66]

If you are currently in this 10 step program are you known as a ‘Friend of Fred’?

 

[Fred's Myth]

If you are currently in this 10 step program are you known as a ‘Friend of Fred’?

It was modeled after AA 12-step program, something they were familiar with.

 

[vantexan]

The reason why they don't abide very well is simple. They know Express employees can't unionize. If they could unionize, you'd see a whole different step program. You'd have a 4 or 5 step program to top out. Starting pay for couriers would be around $20/hr and RTDs would be around $25/hr in base areas. And that's just to keep the union out. If we actually had a union you'd see even bigger starting pay structures. But since we can't unionize, they know they can screw everyone as much as they want and all you can do is quit if you don't like it.

And if you look at how much they gross, how much is employee compensation, how much is net profit, you'd realize there isn't enough profit left over to meet your demands for better pay for everyone. Every cent of profit would have to go to employees and then some. With nothing left over for stock dividends, capital investment, etc. FedEx would soon collapse and you'd be out of a job. Won't happen. Companies don't exist to give employees everything. Could they have done better in the past? Absolutely. Are they doing much better by their employees now? Absolutely. If you look at the numbers and realize this is the case then you've really only got two choices. Either be satisfied with what you're getting, or get training in something that pays better and work towards that goal.

 

[fedx]

And if you look at how much they gross, how much is employee compensation, how much is net profit, you'd realize there isn't enough profit left over to meet your demands for better pay for everyone. Every cent of profit would have to go to employees and then some. With nothing left over for stock dividends, capital investment, etc. FedEx would soon collapse and you'd be out of a job. Won't happen. Companies don't exist to give employees everything. Could they have done better in the past? Absolutely. Are they doing much better by their employees now? Absolutely. If you look at the numbers and realize this is the case then you've really only got two choices. Either be satisfied with what you're getting, or get training in something that pays better and work towards that goal.

So FedEx runs on such thin margins that they can't give employees better pay? Then why doesn't FedEx just post that on giant banners in all their stations and ramps? Put up a big banner saying "We at FedEx can't pay you better, because we run on thin margins". I think if they posted that everywhere and put that reminder in all their vehicles all the employees would understand. You made some great points like using leftover money for paying stock dividends (which isn't a requirement in stocks-it's just an option), capital investments, but you forgot other things like paying $30 million a year for a nascar race car, paying giant salaries for executives, paying giant bonuses for executives. If FedEx runs on such thin margins, why are their pilots the highest paid of any airline business?

Some of their capital investments didn't go so well-like that TNT purchase. Talk about an eventual collapse. That investment might bring down the company in the long run. I really don't see how they have such little leftover when they charge $30-$45 for an envelope and they have literally hundreds of thousands of those envelopes running through their system every night. That's not even counting all the millions of boxes every night that cost $70-$100 to ship. Maybe they can spare some of their capital investment money and put it towards pay.

 

[59 Dano]

I see serious problems with trying to replace couriers but it may well happen. But we've been discussing this over on Current Affairs. Few seem to believe that tens of millions of jobs will be replaced by 2030. That half of all jobs are in danger within two decades. And the pro capitalism at all costs folks seem to not care what happens to those displaced. Going to get very weird soon.

It's much, much further down the road than anyone thinks. It wasn't 5 years ago that everyone was all het up about drones replacing couriers because a couple of packages were delivered in a scenario where all the variables were tightly controlled. Since then, nothing.

Not long before that, the courier job was in jeopardy because 3D printing was on the immediate cusp of eliminating the need to order much of anything because you could just 3D print it out yourself.

And before that, technology was going to drastically reduce the ranks of couriers because PDFs and electronic signatures were going to send actual documents to be a rarity.

As for the speculation that half of all jobs will be eliminated by [your favorite year], it probably won't happen. If it does, other jobs will take their places.

People wasted too much time with needless worry.

 

[fedx]

It was modeled after AA 12-step program, something they were familiar with.

Or Dave Ramsey's "7 baby step program" because they know you don't have much money working there. Something we're familiar with.

 

[vantexan]

It's much, much further down the road than anyone thinks. It wasn't 5 years ago that everyone was all het up about drones replacing couriers because a couple of packages were delivered in a scenario where all the variables were tightly controlled. Since then, nothing.

Not long before that, the courier job was in jeopardy because 3D printing was on the immediate cusp of eliminating the need to order much of anything because you could just 3D print it out yourself.

And before that, technology was going to drastically reduce the ranks of couriers because PDFs and electronic signatures were going to send actual documents to be a rarity.

As for the speculation that half of all jobs will be eliminated by [your favorite year], it probably won't happen. If it does, other jobs will take their places.

People wasted too much time with needless worry.

If you Google automation killing jobs you'll see plenty to worry about. Not just manual labor jobs but white collar too. Companies are partnering with Silicon Valley and Universities to make this happen. Agricultural jobs, military, waitstaff, accounting. All across the board. As for previous years automation has already taken close to 4 million autoworker jobs as well as other jobs in those communities as well paid autoworkers were no longer there to support other businesses. It's going to be very difficult for the lower paid 25% of workers to get by in another decade or so.

 

[vantexan]

So FedEx runs on such thin margins that they can't give employees better pay? Then why doesn't FedEx just post that on giant banners in all their stations and ramps? Put up a big banner saying "We at FedEx can't pay you better, because we run on thin margins". I think if they posted that everywhere and put that reminder in all their vehicles all the employees would understand. You made some great points like using leftover money for paying stock dividends (which isn't a requirement in stocks-it's just an option), capital investments, but you forgot other things like paying $30 million a year for a nascar race car, paying giant salaries for executives, paying giant bonuses for executives. If FedEx runs on such thin margins, why are their pilots the highest paid of any airline business?

Some of their capital investments didn't go so well-like that TNT purchase. Talk about an eventual collapse. That investment might bring down the company in the long run. I really don't see how they have such little leftover when they charge $30-$45 for an envelope and they have literally hundreds of thousands of those envelopes running through their system every night. That's not even counting all the millions of boxes every night that cost $70-$100 to ship. Maybe they can spare some of their capital investment money and put it towards pay.

Actually FedEx executives aren't as well paid as a lot of industries. They depend on stock options to make their serious money. Which is why it's important to them to keep the stock price high and pay good dividends, to attract buyers. And that often translates into tight station budgets. And I stand by my post...if FedEx gave every penny to employees that wouldn't be enough to top out people as fast as they would like it to, nor give them the topped out pay they want. As for things like NASCAR, don't care for it either, but others who know more than I would argue that gives FedEx brand recognition that pays down the road in sales. But if you eliminated that it would be a drop in the bucket compared to what you want. Harsh realities are just that, harsh. There are things they did in the past worth complaining about, but right now in this market you've got a decent deal. Not as good as UPS but I hear they're facing a lot of UPS drivers retiring. Might be as good a time as ever to jump ship. As I've said before instead of trying to make a company give you everything, look at what's available and improve your situation that way. Otherwise you're setting yourself up for a lot of stress, anger, and frustration.

 

[fedx]

Actually FedEx executives aren't as well paid as a lot of industries. They depend on stock options to make their serious money. Which is why it's important to them to keep the stock price high and pay good dividends, to attract buyers. And that often translates into tight station budgets. And I stand by my post...if FedEx gave every penny to employees that wouldn't be enough to top out people as fast as they would like it to, nor give them the topped out pay they want. As for things like NASCAR, don't care for it either, but others who know more than I would argue that gives FedEx brand recognition that pays down the road in sales. But if you eliminated that it would be a drop in the bucket compared to what you want. Harsh realities are just that, harsh. There are things they did in the past worth complaining about, but right now in this market you've got a decent deal. Not as good as UPS but I hear they're facing a lot of UPS drivers retiring. Might be as good a time as ever to jump ship. As I've said before instead of trying to make a company give you everything, look at what's available and improve your situation that way. Otherwise you're setting yourself up for a lot of stress, anger, and frustration.

I didn't know that about UPS. Yeah, they would definitely be worth jumping ship. I've looked at UPS' website online for years and they never have jobs listed other than package handlers. I hope some do retire soon so there are driver openings. Our economy is doing great right now and so is the amount of packages being shipped by FedEx. Peak has never really ended where I'm at. I've heard other stations and ramps say the same thing. I'd say this great market we're in is prime for paying good raises. But unfortunately, I have a feeling FedEx's screw up with TNT will cost employees in the US this fall.