How are other centers doing with the DOK questions?

Discussion in 'UPS Discussions' started by AlaskaMike, Feb 2, 2008.

  1. AlaskaMike

    AlaskaMike Member

    This week our sup told us that we had to have the DOK (ten point commentary, 5 seeing habits etc) learned by 15 February or we would be "taken off road." Wrong thing to tell us! My response was, "Cool, the 15th is a Friday and who wouldn't want to sit in the office for 8 hours in the middle of February?" I told the sup that since I was a senior driver that I was guaranteed 8 hours work by the contract even if "pulled off road." The next day it was changed to "learn it by the 15th or face disciplinary action." We told him to schedule us some time to study since the contract says training is paid for time. The union says if he doesn't give us time to study, we can't be disciplined for not knowing the stuff. We'll see...
  2. 98917

    98917 Guest

    Really? You're a "senior driver" and haven't been taught "ten point commentary" or "5 seeing habits" a dozen or more times?

    Sounds to me like you've been paid for training but instead of learning the material you've been screwing off. Stealing time. That doesn't require an 8 hour guarantee or any sort of guarantee or any progressive discipline either.

    I'd take you out of service and put you on the street. That'd be a BIG motivator for the rest of your building.

    Anytime you walk a "senior driver" out through the gates and they don't see his face anymore they tend to toe the line. That's how it should be everyday but sometimes you need to make an example of someone.
  3. over9five

    over9five Moderator Staff Member

    You're right, Mike. There's nothing they can do if you're unable to recite all that stuff.

    When they first started that here, my sup asked what it will take for me to memorize it all. I said to start me an hour early every day to study.
    Well, of course they won't do that!

    Listen at the pcms, that's all I'll do. When they ask, I recite what I can. I can't remember half of it!

    I am dead set against doing it as homework, but I know some do. There's another thread here where we discussed this. Maybe someone will link it for you.
  4. upsgrunt

    upsgrunt Well-Known Member

    Thanks for your input.
    Please register.
    May I suggest "Tough guy"
  5. over9five

    over9five Moderator Staff Member

    "May I suggest "Tough guy" "

    I was thinking "Anonymous Internet Tough Guy" myself.

    OR....... "Anonymous Secret Supervisor"
  6. over9five

    over9five Moderator Staff Member

    Sorry Moderators, maybe that was over the line....

    ....but then again it was only a troll.
  7. LeddySS98

    LeddySS98 Member

    I had to Recite the list friday morning up in the office... I've read on here you dont HAVE to know them, but I'm new enough and i still have some of that Marine training DO WHAT YOUR TOLD mentality... so I told them what they wanted to hear.

    I'm sure it's the flavor of the month right now, next month we'll go back to sales leads or something.

    It's not THAT hard to memorize the stuff anyway, you pretty much know it to start with, just take a couple minutes a day and glance over the list.

    As to your question, I was told that if I could'nt recite them that i would be sent home without pay for the day... I dont know if they can do that or not but I figured why take the chance.
  8. currahee

    currahee Member

    I do know the stuff not verbatim but can recite good enough to keep them off my back. My problem is if they say it is a condition of employment to be able recite them(not go out everyday and perform them safely) they need to set aside study time.
    We had a Circle of Honor driver that wasn't going to be allowed to work because he couldnt recite them. How stupid is that!
  9. brownmonster

    brownmonster Man of Great Wisdom

    I'll answer what I can and then start crying and getting all worked up. They'll know I care and move on to the next guy.
  10. loserupser

    loserupser Two minute Therapist

    Looks like we have a real tough guy here
    I always have respect for anonymous tough guys!
  11. tonytiger

    tonytiger Member

    In a nutshell, this is the entire problem with training at UPS. Mr. Anonymous believes that a 30 second presentation at a PCM and a text message sometime in the middle of the day not only counts as training, but should be more than enough for complete and total recollection at any time. No matter that the mind is cluttered with the deadlines and problems of the day, no matter that the average four minute PCM is filled with about two dozen distractions. No matter that less than one percent of all tests taken during the average person's lifetime is oral. Learning by intimidation is not only the only way to get the person to learn, but also the only way to handle any learning difficulties as well.

    Yes, I would really like to know that sir. What if an employee is having difficulties with said material. First of all, do you have any idea of their cognitive functions, and how to best present the material so the driver having trouble can best retain your concepts.

    Do you have any idea how difficult this material is to memorize in relation to the Ebbinghaus learning and forgetting curves? Do you think that physiological factors (stress, distractions, fatigue, lack of decent presentations) could contribute to memorization problems? I have actually seen more mnemonic systems and techniques in posts on this website than I have heard at PCM's. For that alone, management should be embarrassed.

    Why can't the drivers be sent to a classroom setting every so often to not only learn the material, but to learn HOW TO LEARN THE MATERIAL. No distractions. No pressures of an average day. Presentations from an actual teacher and not an intimidating supervisor. Perhaps I am naively thinking the reason for memorizing this material is that it will help us be safe by putting into practice said concepts via cognitive recollection. If that is the case, UPS should be putting more effort (light years more effort) into the methods of presenting the material.

    I read on one of these threads a while ago that management has classroom training for certain members of management in case there is a shooting at a center; how best to handle the situation and get the operation back to normal in a timely fashion. Are you trying to tell me that something that very well might never happen gets classroom training, but something that hourlies need to know every hour of the day gets none?

    Again, I am going on the assumption that the reason for memorizing this material is that it will lead to better safety decisions and help reduce accidents and injuries. If the real reason is to just lord it over us when an accident occurs or to just give guys like Mr. Anonymous more reasons to fire us, I guess we can just move on.
  12. Cementups

    Cementups Box Monkey

    I got a surprise audit on these on Thusday night along with another dozen or so guys. 3 guys got them 100%. The rest of us were pulled in the office the next day and warned that we had to know them by next Friday or face action. Oh no, not more warning letters, or gawd forbid a day off :eek:
  13. John19841

    John19841 Member

    I just got hired full time last week (from seasonal). Anyway, as part of the process of making full time, I had to go in front of "the panel". Basically, 5 different interviews with different managers, I had to know:
    5 Seeing Habits
    10 Point Commentary
    6 Rules of Backing
    5 Steps to Avoid Slips and Falls
    8 Keys To Lifting and Lowering
    4 Driver Drill Points
    4 Vehicle Operation Factors

    All Verbatim. That was one of the interviews

    Next was a methods interview. Basically, focused on selection. Had to outline 340 Methods

    After that was the Appearance Interview. Easy, wear the uniform correctly

    Next, the Security Interview. Another easy one...Locked Car Procedure, C.O.D.'s, Driver Release, etc.

    Finally, The Take Charge Interview. Basically, expected to be the easiest. I was told to know the importance of sales leads. Turned out to be the most difficult, not because I did not know the significance, but because the guy was hounding me for not turning in any sales leads.

    Anyway, just wanted to let you guys know that although they cannot force you to learn it, the are forcing the new guys to know it.
  14. tonytiger

    tonytiger Member

    How did you learn it?
  15. John19841

    John19841 Member

    I studied (My own time) all the paperwork I was given. It really wasn't that hard, a couple of hours and I had it down.

    They made it a requirement for all new drivers to go through this interview process. So now, it's know it or don't go driving.
  16. tourists24

    tourists24 Well-Known Member

    Wow... much different than when I went driving.... We had a lot of tests to take; but all the answers we on posters posted on the walls of the classroom
  17. Docparcel79

    Docparcel79 Member

    We are going through the same deal here in the NorthEast. I got pulled in the first time, absolutly failed. I was told to learn them in the next week, or disipline actions (warning letter) would be taken. I took the test the following week, got about 95%. I haven't been bothered since. What I don't understand is why all of the sudden are center manager's taking the bull by the horns on these Knowledge questions? Shouldn't they let us drivers know before hand there is going to be testing on this? Or have classes for drivers about these questions?
  18. Cementups

    Cementups Box Monkey

    Because it makes them look bad if we don't know this stuff. They don't need to look any worse than our stock holders already perceive them to be.
  19. LKLND3380

    LKLND3380 Active Member

    Then if you do not do what was on that test - you can be disaplined... They will go into your folder and pull out that test with all the answers...
  20. tonytiger

    tonytiger Member

    So you studied information for a test that you knew was coming? First of all, congratulations. I would imagine you haven't taken too many oral tests in your lifetime.

    Do you think you would do as well if you had to take the test just before you had to go out and deliver a 20% over dispatched route (you know those PAL labels are not in sequence). More important, do you think you would have done as well if you had to study this information before or after you did said route?

    Now on the opposite side, do you think you would have done better or do you think you would have had a better conceptual idea of what the seeing habits are and how to apply them if you had classroom discussion and demonstrations or visuals? Do you think this would make you a better employee? At the very least, do you think this will help you when you are randomly selected to recite these things the next time?

    Cementups made a good point about the perception of the stockholders. I wonder how many of those stockholders have jobs where they have paid inservices...............