How Bad Will Peak Be?

[oldrps]

Now you're getting it. Dan Sullivan's creation of third party contractors was NOT to promote entrepreneurialism or build enterprise value for third party contractors. They were created for the purpose of having a third party upon whom he could dump as much risk liability and variable cost onto in order to preserve parent company margins.....That's the part that has never changed .
However when Fat Freddy got a hold of it he tried to expand it' into additional markets . Now when you consider the publicly embarrassing service related incidents and the on time service percentages that are beginning to lag behind the two other major carriers the question is will Fat Freddy be willing to accept this condition in return for the attractive margins or will he seek to correct the situation and what measures will he take in an effort to correct it? I've been told that he has to pay his mercenary contractors he calls "contingency contractors" 10 bucks a stop to get them to go around the country plugging the growing number of holes in the network created by contractors who quit unexpectedly. Getting to be quite a costly problem with some mercenary contractors having to stay on site for upwards of 6 months.

Now I'm getting it? Is this the "ulterior motive" you are talking about. This is no secret. The fact that FedEx Ground has become the size it has with contractors says it works. Would FedEx Ground have been better with employee drivers? I don't know and don't care as I have not been a part of them for about 20 years. From reading the comments of the Express drivers on this forum, I don't think it would be much better with employee drivers.

Your assessment about being promoting as an entrepreneur opportunity is not accurate. I had contractors that would prove you wrong in the 90s. It is how business minded the owner was. Ones that treated it like a business, thrived. The ones that treated it as a purchased job barely survived or failed. Purchasing equipment and depreciation is part of what most businesses do. There are no guarantees that all business will make a profit. Did you feel that RPS/FedEx guaranteed you a profit? How did you keep going for over 20 years and why did you stay so long if it was so bad?

Both FedEx Express and UPS have publicly embarrassing incidents and have employee drivers. I remember a FedEx Express driver throwing a tv over a gate/fence a few years ago. So much for the "Golden Package"; if you remember those commercials from many years ago.

"the question is will Fat Freddy be willing to accept this condition in return for the attractive margins or will he seek to correct the situation and what measures will he take in an effort to correct it?"
I think FedEx has accepted this condition as they have kept the contractor model since the purchase in the late 90s. What measures they will take? I don't care and you shouldn't either as neither one of us have anything to do with FedEx.

"They were created for the purpose of having a third party upon whom he could dump as much risk liability and variable cost onto in order to preserve parent company margins..."
I find it ironic in your reply that FedEx doesn't take risk with this model, but later you state they have to hire mercenary contractors when a contractor leaves. It appears there is a risk to FedEx for this model. The risk is that these large contractors can leave and leave large areas with no provider. That seems pretty risky to me. So much for saving on variable costs if they pay over $10.00 a stop.

 

[bacha29]

Now I'm getting it? Is this the "ulterior motive" you are talking about. This is no secret. The fact that FedEx Ground has become the size it has with contractors says it works. Would FedEx Ground have been better with employee drivers? I don't know and don't care as I have not been a part of them for about 20 years. From reading the comments of the Express drivers on this forum, I don't think it would be much better with employee drivers.

Your assessment about being promoting as an entrepreneur opportunity is not accurate. I had contractors that would prove you wrong in the 90s. It is how business minded the owner was. Ones that treated it like a business, thrived. The ones that treated it as a purchased job barely survived or failed. Purchasing equipment and depreciation is part of what most businesses do. There are no guarantees that all business will make a profit. Did you feel that RPS/FedEx guaranteed you a profit? How did you keep going for over 20 years and why did you stay so long if it was so bad?

Both FedEx Express and UPS have publicly embarrassing incidents and have employee drivers. I remember a FedEx Express driver throwing a tv over a gate/fence a few years ago. So much for the "Golden Package"; if you remember those commercials from many years ago.

"the question is will Fat Freddy be willing to accept this condition in return for the attractive margins or will he seek to correct the situation and what measures will he take in an effort to correct it?"
I think FedEx has accepted this condition as they have kept the contractor model since the purchase in the late 90s. What measures they will take? I don't care and you shouldn't either as neither one of us have anything to do with FedEx.

"They were created for the purpose of having a third party upon whom he could dump as much risk liability and variable cost onto in order to preserve parent company margins..."
I find it ironic in your reply that FedEx doesn't take risk with this model, but later you state they have to hire mercenary contractors when a contractor leaves. It appears there is a risk to FedEx for this model. The risk is that these large contractors can leave and leave large areas with no provider. That seems pretty risky to me. So much for saving on variable costs if they pay over $10.00 a stop.

Remember, it was only under the threat of an Internal Revenue Service lawsuit did Roadway grudgingly have to grant contractors goodwill and proprietary rights while continuing to reserve the right to withdraw those rights for any reason or no reason at all. In addition the only access to due process and dispute resolution available to the contractor was binding arbitration which the company reserved the exclusive right to choose all of the people who would sit on the arbitration board. That's right bud, it was only under the threat of fines and jail did that company finally had to learn to begin playing by the rules. So in light of these proceedings you tell me , just exactly how do these actions by the company support your claim that it was supportive and promotional of contractor entrepreneurism?

Oh and it gets even better. When UPS went on strike one of Roadway's VP's I believe his name was Iven Hoffman went out to any media outlet who he thought would actually believe his BS and bragged to the media about how contractors have goodwill and proprietary rights. But, went to great lengths to avoid having to disclose what events were responsible for the granting of goodwill and proprietary rights. In light of the sordid history of events and motives surrounding the creation of RPS rather than accepting it for was and how it came into being you continue to project it in a manner far more positive than it deserves.

 

[falcon back]

Remember, it was only under the threat of an Internal Revenue Service lawsuit did Roadway grudgingly have to grant contractors goodwill and proprietary rights while continuing to reserve the right to withdraw those rights for any reason or no reason at all. In addition the only access to due process and dispute resolution available to the contractor was binding arbitration which the company reserved the exclusive right to choose all of the people who would sit on the arbitration board. That's right bud, it was only under the threat of fines and jail did that company finally had to learn to begin playing by the rules. So in light of these proceedings you tell me , just exactly how do these actions by the company support your claim that it was supportive and promotional of contractor entrepreneurism?

Oh and it gets even better. When UPS went on strike one of Roadway's VP's I believe his name was Iven Hoffman went out to any media outlet who he thought would actually believe his BS and bragged to the media about how contractors have goodwill and proprietary rights. But, went to great lengths to avoid having to disclose what events were responsible for the granting of goodwill and proprietary rights. In light of the sordid history of events and motives surrounding the creation of RPS rather than accepting it for was and how it came into being you continue to project it in a manner far more positive than it deserves.

Very informative post

 

[oldrps]

Remember, it was only under the threat of an Internal Revenue Service lawsuit did Roadway grudgingly have to grant contractors goodwill and proprietary rights while continuing to reserve the right to withdraw those rights for any reason or no reason at all. In addition the only access to due process and dispute resolution available to the contractor was binding arbitration which the company reserved the exclusive right to choose all of the people who would sit on the arbitration board. That's right bud, it was only under the threat of fines and jail did that company finally had to learn to begin playing by the rules. So in light of these proceedings you tell me , just exactly how do these actions by the company support your claim that it was supportive and promotional of contractor entrepreneurism?

Oh and it gets even better. When UPS went on strike one of Roadway's VP's I believe his name was Iven Hoffman went out to any media outlet who he thought would actually believe his BS and bragged to the media about how contractors have goodwill and proprietary rights. But, went to great lengths to avoid having to disclose what events were responsible for the granting of goodwill and proprietary rights. In light of the sordid history of events and motives surrounding the creation of RPS rather than accepting it for was and how it came into being you continue to project it in a manner far more positive than it deserves.

They changed the operating agreement several times since RPS started. What your talking about was nearly 30 years ago, it's ancient news, get over it. It has no relevance today.

As I said before, if RPS/FedEx Ground did not honor the agreement you signed, you should get or should have got legal advice and gone through the proper channels. You talk a lot on this forum how you were wronged, but it appears you never did anything about it except come on this forum and complain.

I think I know why you said: "sordid history of events and motives surrounding the creation of RPS". Are you now figuring it out the real reason they created RPS. It was a scheme to make bacha29 think he would become a billionaire. You fell for it; hook, line and sinker. I am betting all of the executives in Pittsburgh were laughing for over 20 years while you were contracted. I can't figure out why FedEx Ground did not go under once you left, seems like their dirty work was done.

 

[Fred's Myth]

I can't figure out why FedEx Ground did not go under once you left, seems like their dirty work was done.

That’s the root of @bacha29 ’s angst.

 

[bacha29]

They changed the operating agreement several times since RPS started. What your talking about was nearly 30 years ago, it's ancient news, get over it. It has no relevance today.

As I said before, if RPS/FedEx Ground did not honor the agreement you signed, you should get or should have got legal advice and gone through the proper channels. You talk a lot on this forum how you were wronged, but it appears you never did anything about it except come on this forum and complain.

I think I know why you said: "sordid history of events and motives surrounding the creation of RPS". Are you now figuring it out the real reason they created RPS. It was a scheme to make bacha29 think he would become a billionaire. You fell for it; hook, line and sinker. I am betting all of the executives in Pittsburgh were laughing for over 20 years while you were contracted. I can't figure out why FedEx Ground did not go under once you left, seems like their dirty work was done.

I enjoy how you to seek to bury the hard facts you don't want to confront by seeking to dismiss those facts by describing them as "ancient history" but continue to support the continued use of so called "contractors' to this day .Therefore if they're still being used today then all facts and historical events surrounding the model continue to be relevant to this day and cannot be dismissed. It's not "ancient history" until they're no longer being used.

Indeed the operating agreement was changed but not because they wanted to but rather because they had no choice but to play by the rules. It was either that or go to jail as well as face the potential of a court ordered complete dissolution of Roadway Package System. Not long afterward Roadway had enough , had seen all they wanted to see of Dan Sullivan and sent Roadway Package System spinning off into it's own company. In a matter of just a couple of years later Fat Freddy sweeps in and acquires Caliber System in a noncash bargain price of just 2 billion in stock which begs the question.....how long would Caliber have lasted and just who needed who the most?

 

[falcon back]

I enjoy how you to seek to bury the hard facts you don't want to confront by seeking to dismiss those facts by describing them as "ancient history" but continue to support the continued use of so called "contractors' to this day .Therefore if they're still being used today then all facts and historical events surrounding the model continue to be relevant to this day and cannot be dismissed. It's not "ancient history" until they're no longer being used.

Indeed the operating agreement was changed but not because they wanted to but rather because they had no choice but to play by the rules. It was either that or go to jail as well as face the potential of a court ordered complete dissolution of Roadway Package System. Not long afterward Roadway had enough , had seen all they wanted to see of Dan Sullivan and sent Roadway Package System spinning off into it's own company. In a matter of just a couple of years later Fat Freddy sweeps in and acquires Caliber System in a noncash bargain price of just 2 billion in stock which begs the question.....how long would Caliber have lasted and just who needed who the most?

Spot on fella

 

[59 Dano]

They changed the operating agreement several times since RPS started. What your talking about was nearly 30 years ago, it's ancient news, get over it. It has no relevance today.

You have no idea how many times he's already been told that by other Ground contractors on this forum.

 

[Lates]

Who cares if you make a fortune on selling your house. A 30 mile commute in Nashville traffic can take an hour or more. I was there last week for the Vol/Tiger basketball game and spent some time in Antioch and La Vernge one day and Lebanon another day. Gridlock was everywhere and it wasn't even rush hour. Who wants to spend that much time getting home everyday?

I don’t agree with you often but I live about that from Nashville and sometimes it can take easily that long on a good day. And if someone did sell it would take it all plus to buy again. Even an hour plus from Nashville homes have doubled in the last five years. What fedex starts out at you can’t afford the area anymore. Not the companies fault many places pay way less just the way the area is.

 

[falcon back]

I don’t agree with you often but I live about that from Nashville and sometimes it can take easily that long on a good day. And if someone did sell it would take it all plus to buy again. Even an hour plus from Nashville homes have doubled in the last five years. What fedex starts out at you can’t afford the area anymore. Not the companies fault many places pay way less just the way the area is.

But Dano said people in Nashville could sell their houses and make a fortune by moving outside of town. Is that not true?

 

[oldrps]

I enjoy how you to seek to bury the hard facts you don't want to confront by seeking to dismiss those facts by describing them as "ancient history" but continue to support the continued use of so called "contractors' to this day .Therefore if they're still being used today then all facts and historical events surrounding the model continue to be relevant to this day and cannot be dismissed. It's not "ancient history" until they're no longer being used.

Indeed the operating agreement was changed but not because they wanted to but rather because they had no choice but to play by the rules. It was either that or go to jail as well as face the potential of a court ordered complete dissolution of Roadway Package System. Not long afterward Roadway had enough , had seen all they wanted to see of Dan Sullivan and sent Roadway Package System spinning off into it's own company. In a matter of just a couple of years later Fat Freddy sweeps in and acquires Caliber System in a noncash bargain price of just 2 billion in stock which begs the question.....how long would Caliber have lasted and just who needed who the most?

I didn't bury anything. I acknowledged the contract has changed several time since RPS started. Of course they changed the agreement due to legal challenges and IRS regulations. This isn't something that has been hidden or in your words "bury the hard facts".

I "continue to support the continued use of so called contractors to this day"; I never said that. I don't care what Ground does today, I am not part of them.

"historical events surrounding the model continue to be relevant to this day"
The historical events surrounding the model are not relevant. If you have facts to prove me wrong, please post them. I am curious of how you think they are relevant. It is like saying that McDonald's used to sell hamburgers for 15 cents and that is relevant today. The prices evolved over time, just like the operating agreement. I stand by my statement that the agreement from 30 years ago is ancient history just like the 15 cent hamburgers from McDonald's.

Your whole statement on why Roadway Express was spun off is false. Roadway Express was spun off from Roadway Services due to the 1994 strike and subsequent loss of profits. See the history of Roadway Express. Why would you make something up like this when it is easily found by googling it.

You talk about hard facts. You are the king at not providing facts. Read your last response, where are the facts in your statements about the Roadway spinoff. You make so many statements on this forum and rarely back them up with facts. When someone challenges you, you change the subject. This dialog between us started by you saying that FedEx Ground has not changed since it started up as RPS. It was easily proved wrong and you never backed it up how it hadn't. You even proved your statement was incorrect by saying the operating agreement was changed because they didn't have a choice (see your previous post). Instead, you have changed the whole conversation to discuss the operating agreement. You do this in every conversation I have had with you.

You need to seek professional mental help, you are overly obsessed with this.

 

[59 Dano]

Who cares if you make a fortune on selling your house. A 30 mile commute in Nashville traffic can take an hour or more. I was there last week for the Vol/Tiger basketball game and spent some time in Antioch and La Vernge one day and Lebanon another day. Gridlock was everywhere and it wasn't even rush hour. Who wants to spend that much time getting home everyday?

Since the Vols basketball teams didn't play any Tigers last week, the rest of your post is obviously as made up as that part. But I admire your "I went there once and now I'm an expert on the traffic" effort.

 

[falcon back]

Since the Vols basketball teams didn't play any Tigers last week, the rest of your post is obviously as made up as that part. But I admire your "I went there once and now I'm an expert on the traffic" effort.

So the Tiger/Vol basketball game scheduled on the 18th wasnt last week when my post was made on the 27th? We stayed over until the 21, so I know that classifies as last week? Next!!!

 

[falcon back]

. But I admire your "I went there once and now I'm an expert on the traffic" effort.

The LATES fella agreed that Nashville suburbs prices has skyrocketed and the intown traffic will make a short commute last an hour. Sounds like I nailed it with my post. Next!!!

 

[MAKAVELI]

So the Tiger/Vol basketball game scheduled on the 18th wasnt last week when my post was made on the 27th? We stayed over until the 21, so I know that classifies as last week? Next!!!

What was the score? Lol

 

[Working4the1%]

What was the score? Lol

WDL’s winning by a lot at my station. The Omnicron team is kicking butt

 

[falcon back]

What was the score? Lol

Game got cancelled about an hr before tip-off. Covid issues with the Memphis team. . Just spent a few days hanging out on Broadway and Opry Mall and checked out the Gateway Motors and Streetside Classic car locations. Both places have warehouses full of overpriced classic cars.

 

[falcon back]

Don't be jealous. Retirement is great and allows me to do the things that I enjoy.

So why did the Tiger/Vol game get cancelled if it wasn't Covid? They owe us an explanation.
So you think the cars at Streetside and Gateway are fairly priced? I didn't see one Duece and 1/4 at either place.

 

[falcon back]

I think you're just a troll who constantly gets caught up in your own lies

" I never give them hell. I just tell the truth and they think it's hell" Harry Truman

You are free to think what you want but until you can prove otherwise, nobody cares what you think.

You still didn't answer. Why did the game get cancelled if it wasn't covid? What do you know?

 

[Working4the1%]

So hearing massive pilot shortage because of Covid..no pilots. No freight. Memphis we have a problem