How Long Does It Take To Leave IBT?

[upslocal480]

Tomorrow I am mailing in my resignation letter/form to the union. Anyone know about how long it will take for it to kick in on my pay checks? Including our raises...I'll be ge earning an additional 63.00/month once my dues stop comming out. I really need the money.

 

[archibald]

I DON'T KNOW WHERE YOU ARE LOCATED BUT I BET WHEN THE COMPANY KNOWS YOU ARE NOT UNION YOU WILL HAVE A BULLSEYE ON YOUR BACK, AND KEEP IN MIND I AM NOT SOME BIG UNION ALL THE WAY PERSON, I SEE BOTH SIDES OF THE ISSUE. I AM IN A RIGHT TO WORK STATE AND WE ONLY HAD 1 FULL TIME PERSON CROSS THE PICKET LINE AND HIS LIFE AINT BEEN GRAND SINCE THEN. HE IS STILL THERE BUT UPS TREATS HIM LIKE A PART-TIMER INSURANCE WISE AND SUCH. YOU KNOW IF YOU GET IN A BIND THE UNION WILL NOT FIGHT FOR YOU SO LIKE THEY WOULD A MEMBER SO THINK HARD BEFORE YOU JUMP. LIKE IT OR NOT THE UNION CAN STOP UPS FROM TAKING ADVANTAGE OF YOU AND OFFER YOU SOME BENEFITS, WITHOUT IT IN A UNION DOMINATED SHOP YOU ARE ON YOUR OWN, NOT TRYIN TO SCARE YOU JUST TRYIN TO HELP, IWISH IT WAS DIFFERENT BUT IT ISN'T.

 

[badhab1]

You're a little off on this one. The company knows everyone that is not in the union. They don't have to "find out". Either they are on the dues check off or they are not. I think that you are , despite your comments, trying to unnecessarily scare them. jmho

 

[my2cents]

I've been a non-member in a non-rtw state for almost 5 years and have never had any problems with the company at all. Furthermore, the union has a duty of fair representation to uphold. Failure to do so is an unfair labor practice and a violation of Section 8(b)(1)(A) of the National Labor Relations Act.

In regards upslocal480's question, your resignation is effective when it is postmarked and received by the local's Secretary/Treasurer. Dues shouldn't be deducted in October. If they are deducted, you should request a refund from UPS payroll.

 

[upslocal480]

I know about all the supposed consequences. There are only 10 people on my shift and that includes the mechanic that works on the trucks. Including me 3 of us our union. Here you aren't treated any different if you aren't union. You are considered scum though if you are part-time. The drivers are the ones that look down on us...not management. Especially on our shift. When I worked in a hub in smalls there were roughly 35 poeple up there and not even half were union. We all got treated the same by management. I'm not worried about how I'll be treated because I do my job and show up everday. In a right to work state we are still covered by the contract even if you aren't union. I've been at UPS almost 4 years and have NEVER filed a grievance nor threatened to. I could have many times but always solved the few problems I ever had on my own and always planned on using the union as a last resort. Money is 90% of the reason I'm getting out. The money I'll be saving by getting out plus our raises will give me roughly 63.00/month extra which I REALLY need now. If I do ever have a problem where I need a union steward and they don't give me at least the minimum effort they are required by law to give then I'll seek outside legal help. Its been done before. I'm not against the union but if I get out and that happens then I would be very dissapointed that I ever gave a union like that my money each month. The unions stewards I had at the hub were more than helpfull to non union part-timers. They seemed to rather help a part-timer whether they were union or not apposed to letting a manager get away with mistreating us. There are only 30 or so divers here and only a few are die hard union and might have something to say about someone getting out but the last time I checked I never got a job at UPS with the intent of keeping the drivers, or anyone else, happy with my personal business and union status. I'll probably get back in one day if I can but right now my budget demands that I get out. LOL

 

[over9five]

The money I'll be saving by getting out plus our raises .....

Nice. Let the Union negotiate a raise for you, and then bail out. (But you'll keep the raise, wont you.)

 

[deliver_man]

Nice. Let the Union negotiate a raise for you, and then bail out. (But you'll keep the raise, wont you.)

Exactly. There is another non-union delivery company, so you do have a choice. If you despise the union so much, then go work for them.....oh wait...they don't pay as well do they? Gee, I wonder why?

 

[ok2bclever]

Those that want (and expect and demand) the benefits, but don't want to pay for it are freeloaders and make me sick.

Sorry if this seems harsh, but I put them in the same category as those who steal from charity jars or healthy people taking advantage of welfare because they just don't want to work.

Rationalize it any way you want. It still comes down to leaches.

(Message edited by ok2bclever on September 20, 2002)

 

[my2cents]

How is one a free rider in a forced rider system? If unionism was truly voluntary, this free rider argument would be moot. Union members would have "members only" negotiated benefits, whereas others would have their own independent arrangements with the employer. Current labor law is warped in this regard because it perpetuates the free rider argument. Compulsory unionism also creates a climate of casual or fair weather membership, instead of committment.

 

[upsdude]

Oh yes, all of those great and wonderful Teamster negotiated benefits. Better take the dues money and invest in your own pension plan, just ask the folks covered by the Central States pension plan. Id much rather have UPS give me the monthly pension payment. Can you say 15 and out??

 

[dammor]

Jump right on out of the union you fools. Screw up, and then ask them to save your butt. That one I would love to see. Seems everyone wants the benefits, but just can seem to afford the dues. Good luck.....

 

[ok2bclever]

This is not a forced rider system, if you don't like or believe in unions or unionized companies there is a non union company you can go to work for tomorrow with all the things a non union company entails. No pension, lower wages, lousier working conditions,crappier benefits. Leave tomorrow. But no, you won't put your money wear your mouth is. Instead you will mouth rationalizations to cover why you are a freeloader. I am sure it is because of lofty ideals.

It truly would be fairer if those that did not want to be in the union did not have to be and they got the lower pay and working conditions and the law did not require the union to represent the freeloaders. Then you would see how generous the company would be the first time you screwed up.

I keep hearing how we would be better off with a company pension. Like Worldcom, Enron, Global Communications, etc.

Or how about UPS. You know there already are UPS pensions. The one the union forced the company to start for part timers in 1976. The company trumpeted this benefit like they thought of it and created it out of the goodness of their hearts. Course they had the usual small print to keep you from really getting it. You had to be twenty-five before you started getting any credit towards it. (Convenient with a age group that is hired around 18-19). Oh yeah, and you had to work two to three years in order to get enough hour credit to equal one year.

Then there is the other UPS Pension, the one for supes. I have a district manager that just had a major heart attack. He now has two devices inplanted in his chest to try to keep him alive. I have heard the men in his family have trouble keeping it ticking after fifty. He is fifty, but he is not planning on retiring immediately. Is it because he is dedicated? Actually he is, but that does not really factor in because he does not have a choice. You cannot retire until you are at least 55 to get the medical benefits he needs regardless how many years you have dedicated to UPS.

Yep, let's give away what little ability to negotiate our pensions we have and trust the company to decide the parameters of our pension.

Could UPS give us a better pension than we currently have? Sure, but heck, so could the Teamsters. What has that got to do with reality.

And this dues crying. Sheesh, get a job!

Like at Fed-Ex or Burger King and you can quit paying tomorrow.

Locally the difference between the wage for a UPS driver and a Fed-Ex driver means the UPS driver can pay for his month's dues in the difference in wages he makes before the first Monday of the month is finished.

And the only reason Fed-Ex pays their non union workers that much is because of the competition for workers they have to have with UPS.

Your Union Contract guarantees:
Good Wages
Full health care for you and your family
Life Insurance
Paid holidays
Paid vacations (more of them than the supes get)
Paid funeral leave
Health and Safety rules (working conditions)
Pensions
Seniority Rights (as you get older this becomes more important. your body won't always be able to maintain the pace of a stud jumping out of a package car)
Access to the Grievance Procedure</u>

And many other benefits.

 

[my2cents]

ok2,

I'll have to respectfully disagree. Unions are supposed to be voluntary associations, even Sam G said,

"I want to urge devotion to the fundamentals of human liberty -- the principles of voluntarism. No lasting gain has ever come from compulsion."

Forcing people into collectives is morally wrong and totalitarian. Exclusive representation is an unconstitutional grant of power to a private group. The sale of one's labor is a private and individual matter. If one chooses to join a union, that should be their free choice. Conversely, one has the First Amendment right to not associate if one sees that to be in their best interest.

Personally, I don't believe in compulsory unionism and I got sick of all the corruption scandals the Teamsters seem to get themselves into. Compulsory unionism and corruption go hand in hand. The law is long overdue for an overhaul. If unions were true voluntary associations, most of these corruption scandals wouldn't happen because they would be truly accountable to the membership. They know no matter how badly they may perform as bargaining agents, there is always a pipeline full of forced-dues cash to cover their mistakes.

 

[deliver_man]

Forcing people into collectives is morally wrong and totalitarian. Exclusive representation is an unconstitutional grant of power to a private group. The sale of one's labor is a private and individual matter. If one chooses to join a union, that should be their free choice. Conversely, one has the First Amendment right to not associate if one sees that to be in their best interest.
my2cents, what part of ok2bclever's post did you not read/understand? Your reply makes very little sense, as noone here, or anywhere else in the USA for that matter, is being forced to "join a collective". Even in closed shop states, you can withdraw from the union if you so choose, and, if that isn't enough for you, you can go work for fedex or any other non-union company where the sale of your labor will be a "private matter". But of course you won't, because you and I both know that you will be unable to secure the same high level of wages and benefits that the union has "forced you to accept" here at UPS.

 

[wkmac]

ok2bclever,
With all the bad coming lately about the pension I believe I would have left that part off the list you made in your post.

or then again based on what we're learning, maybe we should

LOL!

Hey I do have one question because I don't know this. I work in a Right to Work State so being a member is truly a choice (at least from the paying dues part) but I've always heard that in some states union membership is mandatory. You guys mentioned you could opt. out of the union and in those Close Shop States or whatever they call it, how does opting out work there?

I fully admit I don't like a lot of what I see with unions in general but we work in a place where the union will have a huge impact on our workplace lives and even our outside the job lives so I would not only encourage union membership but also we get more involved in the total process and IMO this will make it better for everyone involved.

BTW:I applaud the lawsuit filed against the IBT over accounting practices and I plan on writting Congressman Norwood to encourage him to look further into this matter. I realize asking Congress to look at the IBT is like asking Al Capone to investigate BabyFace Nelson and Bonnie and Clyde but hopefully in the process we IBT members can gleam some truth to make us more effective with our union. JMO.

 

[my2cents]

deliver man,

Under current labor law, one's common law right of freedom of contract does not exist. I think my position is consistent and doesn't require further elaboration. No matter how you slice it, its still forced association. Why can't people choose to work at UPS and have full freedom of association? Pretty simple concept and I have nothing against unions, except when the process itself is based on coercion. When I took a position at UPS, I wanted to work for the company. The union itself was an afterthought.

wkmac,

Union membership is not mandatory in a non-rtw state. Instead one pays agency fees which are germane to collective bargaining, contract administration and grievance adjustment, i.e. -- representational activities. Items such are politics, organizing and lobbying are considered non-chargeable expenses under Beck. Another reason why I resigned was because of offensive political ads I would never voluntarily contribute sums of money for.

 

[my2cents]

Ok guys, here's a list of works which support my perspective:

Workers and Unions -- How About Freedom of Contract?
Big Labor's Top Ten Special Privileges
Economics of Unionism
On Freedom of Association
Poltroons on the Bench
The Permissible Uses of Forced Union Dues from Hanson to Beck
The Myth of Compulsory Union Membership

Hopefully, people will have a greater understanding of where I'm coming from, if they choose to read the above.

 

[deliver_man]

Under current labor law, one's common law right of freedom of contract does not exist.
Sure it does. Go work for Fedex, they are non-union, and you will have the freedom to perform the same job you do now for lower pay and less benefits.

When I took a position at UPS, I wanted to work for the company. The union itself was an afterthought.

Nice try, but it doesn't wash. You piss and moan about "compulsory unionism" and how you yearn for the "full freedom of association", yet you specifically chose to apply for a job at a union company where the wages and benefits of your positon are garnered through collective bargaining. And we all know why you chose UPS, it's because the wages and benefits that the union has negotiated are superior to anything you could get at a non-union company. You spew a lot of rhetoric and post a lot of anti-labor links in a pathetic attempt to justify the fact that you lack the courage of your convicions, but in reality you are simply a free-loader.

(Message edited by deliver_man on September 22, 2002)

(Message edited by deliver_man on September 22, 2002)

 

[my2cents]

Its not my problem that you refuse to understand the First Amendment. If I was in the teaching profession for example, I would refuse to join the NEA. I think much of what they are doing is damaging to public education.

 

[deliver_man]

Its not my problem that you refuse to understand the First Amendment. If I was in the teaching profession for example, I would refuse to join the NEA. I think much of what they are doing is damaging to public education.
Once again, instead of adressing the issue of your freeloading, you make some obtuse references, in this case to the 1st amendment and the teaching profession. Neither the teacher's union nor the 1st amendment has anything to do with the fact that you are a freeeloader.
You are not a teacher, you deliver packages.
You had a choice to work for a union or a non-union company.
You chose to work a union company, because they offered better pay and benefits than their non-union competitors.
And now we are supposed to believe that that you are a principled defender of the 1st amendment because you don't want to pay your union dues?
You are a freeloader, plain and simple.