If this company was employee owned!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[UnconTROLLed]

Wow, after reading more of what was said, I am shocked to know how many people at UPS could care less about integrity and honesty. It has nothing to do with being directed to lie or falsify documents, we get that all the time. But what gets me is those of you that willingly accept doing that because "the man" told me to. Wow. I guess integrity is gone at UPS

d

If management directs me to do something, that I am ( as a Teamster) typically supposed to be dumb enough to not recognize is lacking integrity, I will do it. We get paid to work as instructed, remember that.

If they say "sheet as EC", then I am supposed to be blind and dumb enough to do so and never question anything.

Did I know what EC means? Nope.

Me just hit button like good Teamster. X weather. *hits button diliberately* *boooop*.
Done.

I don't see how the employee can get passed for blame. The company wants no one to be individual, they want to oppress everything personal, personal feelings aside...now now, don't think for yourself...we'll do the thinking for you....

now go deliver this early AM, don't worry it's already in the board, just go...

 

[dannyboy]

Uncomfortable? Pissed? Those are all good things if it leads to change. The problem as I see it is that it is so widely accepted and done, that very very precious few really care.

Hoax, while you did not specify, the cookie cutter approach of "employees will work as instructed, regardless of the instruction" in enough to allow me to fill in the blanks.

Secondly, there are several posts of late where our management posters have been extremely quiet. Ever heard of "tyranny rules when good men stand by and do nothing?" And that includes speaking out against wrongs, regardless of the outcome.

Been with the company 30 years, and only heard about things like dedication to the customer? Shame, at one time, that relationship is what drove us to the top. Not fudging numbers to make it look like we are number one.

d

 

[soberups]

It would seem that any hourly employee who is directed by management to sheet a package a certain way and they refuse are totally lacking in INTEGRITY.
Just my opinion and I hope you don't get mad at me but ... that's what the contract says and anyone not going by the terms and conditions of the contract are totally without INTEGRITY.

We have had employees terminated for falsifying their delivery records.

If a management person instructs me to sheet a missed package as "emergency conditions" I will be more than happy to do so....if they put that instruction in writing.

The company is certainly entitled to establish its own criterion for what constitutes an "emergency condition" and it is also entitled to instruct its employees how to record a given package.

What the company is not entitled to do...is to terminate employees for falsifying records and then turn around and instruct other employees to do the very same thing.

What happens to the driver when a customer calls in a complaint and demands a refund for their shipping charges on a missed package? If the package was given a bogus "ECON" exception and the customer raises enough of a stink about it, then Loss Prevention might wind up getting involved. If that happens...and LP wants to know why a driver sheeted ECON on a warm sunny day....will the supervisor who told him to do so really be willing to step up and take responsibility for the decision?

 

[pretzel_man]

We have had employees terminated for falsifying their delivery records.

If a management person instructs me to sheet a missed package as "emergency conditions" I will be more than happy to do so....if they put that instruction in writing.

The company is certainly entitled to establish its own criterion for what constitutes an "emergency condition" and it is also entitled to instruct its employees how to record a given package.

What the company is not entitled to do...is to terminate employees for falsifying records and then turn around and instruct other employees to do the very same thing.

What happens to the driver when a customer calls in a complaint and demands a refund for their shipping charges on a missed package? If the package was given a bogus "ECON" exception and the customer raises enough of a stink about it, then Loss Prevention might wind up getting involved. If that happens...and LP wants to know why a driver sheeted ECON on a warm sunny day....will the supervisor who told him to do so really be willing to step up and take responsibility for the decision?

You are exactly right.

 

[soberups]

When my work ethic is called into question, I get pissed.
I ECON as a refusal that draws a line in the sand that I will not work after 10pm.
This is were my integrity and my self protection meet.
What is integral is that I am knowingly over dispatched, on a weekly basis.
Come on down and do what I am asked to do, then pontificate.

Your work ethic is not being questioned.

Your decision to not make deliveries after 10PM is not being questioned.

And the fact that you are being overdispatched is not being questioned.

I am merely asking a simple question; what is stopping you from sheeting the missed packages as "missed" instead of ECON? And if in fact you are being instructed to do so by management, are they willing to put that instruction in writing?

 

[dannyboy]

What happens to the driver when a customer calls in a complaint and demands a refund for their shipping charges on a missed package? If the package was given a bogus "ECON" exception and the customer raises enough of a stink about it, then Loss Prevention might wind up getting involved. If that happens...and LP wants to know why a driver sheeted ECON on a warm sunny day....will the supervisor who told him to do so really be willing to step up and take responsibility for the decision

You are exactly right

P man, with all due respect, I disagree. I have been on the receiving end of that type of BS. Center manager, not even delivery sup instructs a new driver on how to take care of things on road. Driver follows center managers instructions the next day, and the center manager fires him that PM for doing exactly what was instructed, claiming the driver was dishonest. Only after a feeder driver who happened to overhear the instructions got involved, did the new driver get his job back.

Also, why is it that when asked to put the instructions to the driver in writing about Econ, do you guys refuse. Hell, the proper methods for wiping your behind on road is in writing, why not something important like this? Why is it that instructions to the drivers or other hourly that are wrong and dishonest are not put in writing???????

Your ball, your court, your serve. Waiting.

d

 

[pretzel_man]

P man, with all due respect, I disagree. I have been on the receiving end of that type of BS. Center manager, not even delivery sup instructs a new driver on how to take care of things on road. Driver follows center managers instructions the next day, and the center manager fires him that PM for doing exactly what was instructed, claiming the driver was dishonest. Only after a feeder driver who happened to overhear the instructions got involved, did the new driver get his job back.

Also, why is it that when asked to put the instructions to the driver in writing about Econ, do you guys refuse. Hell, the proper methods for wiping your behind on road is in writing, why not something important like this? Why is it that instructions to the drivers or other hourly that are wrong and dishonest are not put in writing???????

Your ball, your court, your serve. Waiting.

d

Danny,

I think you hit the ball out of bounds and are waiting for the return??? All I did was agree with what Sober said....

My interpretation of what he said was that he would put in the board what the supervisor said if he got in writing that this was correct.

I agreed with him. (at a minimum, get it verbally in front of witnesses).

UPS management has the right to adjust how they want items recorded. The employee should not be disciplined for following instructions.

In this case, since instructions seem in conflict, the driver has a right to get clarification....

Again, all I did was agree....

 

[dannyboy]

Thankyou for the clarification.

But again, why, in this age of the company having written policy covering so many unimportant items, is there not a written standard on what is actually an Econ? After all, you have read here how misused it is nation if not world wide.

d

 

[pretzel_man]

Thankyou for the clarification.

But again, why, in this age of the company having written policy covering so many unimportant items, is there not a written standard on what is actually an Econ? After all, you have read here how misused it is nation if not world wide.

d

When I get a chance, I'll look on the iGate to see what is there.

 

[dannyboy]

Thank you in advance.

d

 

[satellitedriver]

I am merely asking a simple question; what is stopping you from sheeting the missed packages as "missed" instead of ECON? And if in fact you are being instructed to do so by management, are they willing to put that instruction in writing?

To answer your question, I simply follow verbal instructions, on that given day, to not sheet the pkg as missed.
This is not a daily occurrence.
As to getting it in writing, fat chance.
All I am willing to say, in an open forum, is that I have ways to defend my position if LP tries to shake my tree and tries make me the fall guy.
Sorry for my rant last night.
It was a combination of a bad work day, new med's and a phone conversation I did not want to have.
When I logged on last night I was in the mood to fight and let that carry over into Brown Cafe.
Once again, I apologize to all, for my rant.

 

[dannyboy]

Sat, no apology needed. At the end of the day, we are all active or retired hard working stiffs that have each others back. We might fight like cat and dog between ourselves (much like brother and sister) but let anyone else lay a finger on any one of us, and they will pull back a stub.

As far as my posts, do not take it personally. It was aimed at the action, not the person.

Best

d

 

[UPSSOCKS]

All management peolples would be terminated ASAP!!!!!!!!!!!! Yall are doing a pitiful job..... Not if, but when this company fails!!!!!!!!!! Guess what !!!!!!!!!!!! Its all your fault.......... Start listening to your hourly people!! Please!!! You know the men and women like myself, that make your paycheck possible.....

After all these years... Someone finally figured out how to solve the problems of a very profitbale, 100+ year old company.. Thanks... We will let Teamsters run the thing.. Let me know so I can dump my stock

 

[pretzel_man]

Thankyou for the clarification.

But again, why, in this age of the company having written policy covering so many unimportant items, is there not a written standard on what is actually an Econ? After all, you have read here how misused it is nation if not world wide.

d

When I get a chance, I'll look on the iGate to see what is there.

Thank you in advance.

d

I checked the iGate....

Many documents exist on how to handle delivery exceptions. More than one is there for Emergency Conditions.

You supervisor can look under Procedures, then under Delivery Exception Guidelines.

There is also contact information for those in Corporate who are responsible for this.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Just curious, did any of the documents recommend the use of Emergency Conditions as a dispatch tool?

 

[pretzel_man]

Just curious, did any of the documents recommend the use of Emergency Conditions as a dispatch tool?

I think that's called a rhetorical question....

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

I think that's called a rhetorical question....

I wish it were but, unfortunately, there are some center manager's who do indeed use EC as a dispatch tool.

 

[dannyboy]

And in addition to Upstate's comment, I enjoyed the suggestion that my supervisor can look it up for me. And for sure, he will give me the contact information listed. Neither of which will ever happen, as I am retired. If a request would come in to my ex supervisors, they would immediately know that a customer complaint would follow. So why would they load the gun, lift it to their head, and offer to pull the trigger?

best

d

 

[soberups]

I checked the iGate....

Many documents exist on how to handle delivery exceptions. More than one is there for Emergency Conditions.

You supervisor can look under Procedures, then under Delivery Exception Guidelines.

There is also contact information for those in Corporate who are responsible for this.

Unfortunately, the reality of ECON seems to be a bit different than whatever policies and procedures may exist on a website or in the back pages of some policy handbook.

The reality...on a day-to-day operational level....seems to be that the working definiton of ECON is "if it will make a supervisor look bad on a report, its an emergency."

If this was just another typical attempt on the part of management to manipulate some irrelevant metric it really wouldnt matter. But when we ECON a package it means that (a) the customer didnt get the service they paid for and (b) they cannot get a refund for the missed package.

Where I come from, that would be called "fraud".

 

[menotyou]

That is why any Attorney General of any state would be interested. Fraud is fraud. It is illegal. It should not be condoned in any fashion. A driver EC'ing a package could potentially be part of the fraud.