Is 804 ever going to vote?

[Whatbrownwontdoforyou]

The contract specifically says UPS must transition ALL RPCD's to a Monday-Friday schedule within 18 months.



22.4's have a guaranteed 8 hour shift per the new contract so it really doesn't matter 1 wit about that question.

We all know what they are going to do on Saturdays........they will run the Monday's resi's, thus preventing the lowest seniority RPCD's from working on Mondays!

That a very important question because your argument is that 22.4s are gonna drive all their hours....so what will all the 22.4s they bring in on Saturday do Tuesday-Friday if rpcds don’t go home rlo

 

[BigUnionGuy]

Yes.

BTW what does it matter which Region I am in? The contract language is in the master!

If you are in the Central, you should know what the supplement language says.

You should also know what Article 2 Section 2 of the master says....

 

[Benben]

That a very important question because your argument is that 22.4s are gonna drive all their hours....so what will all the 22.4s they bring in on Saturday do Tuesday-Friday if rpcds don’t go home rlo

Tuesday volume has not been cannibalized by the weekend routes as of yet! Your argument holds no water! If Tuesdays come in light I fully anitcipate DPS cutting Bulk stops off RPCD's and when the 22.4's are done they will be used to run down miss-loads followed by scavaging bulky pick-ups. By going this route UPS will be able to get all the RPCD's to 8 hour days!

 

[Benben]

If you are in the Central, you should know what the supplement language says.

You should also know what Article 2 Section 2 of the master says....

You are a piece of work!

Supplement, Art 3, section 6: A laid off full time may displace 1 part time and be guaranteed 3.5 hours. (at prevailing rate of pay for that classification which is lower!) or 2 part time employees where there less than a 90 min gap!

So when a lower seniority RPCD walks in on Monday to find his/her work was raped by the 22.4 on Saturday he or she can work the evening shift and since there is no other part time work that day they get 3.5 hours at a lower pay!

Please correct me if I am reading it wrong!


2.2 of the master has no bearing in what we are talking about, why would you have even thrown that out there?

 

[Bubblehead]

You are a piece of work!

Supplement, Art 3, section 6: A laid off full time may displace 1 part time and be guaranteed 3.5 hours. (at prevailing rate of pay for that classification which is lower!) or 2 part time employees where there less than a 90 min gap!

So when a lower seniority RPCD walks in on Monday to find his/her work was raped by the 22.4 on Saturday he or she can work the evening shift and since there is no other part time work that day they get 3.5 hours at a lower pay!

Please correct me if I am reading it wrong!


2.2 of the master has no bearing in what we are talking about, why would you have even thrown that out there?

@Turdferguson set us straight on that, with the new CRSA guaranteeing 8 hours when a RPCD bumps into two sorts.

But this notion bares to light a good question, as this new 22.4 classification was billed in part in response to "RPCD's not wanting to work weekends" (I never bought that bill of goods myself).

Makes me now wonder how these "RPCD's" feel about having to work 2 shifts in the sorts, with a 90 minute gap between instead?....what's the lesser of these two evils???

 

[Whatbrownwontdoforyou]

Tuesday volume has not been cannibalized by the weekend routes as of yet! Your argument holds no water! If Tuesdays come in light I fully anitcipate DPS cutting Bulk stops off RPCD's and when the 22.4's are done they will be used to run down miss-loads followed by scavaging bulky pick-ups. By going this route UPS will be able to get all the RPCD's to 8 hour days!

With the amount of new drivers in progression they could have implemented the plan that you are talking about....they could have taken all the overtime away from top rate drivers and given all to drivers in progression....but they didn’t or couldn’t because most were working all the overtime they wanted to the point that it was a top proposal for the new contract to cut excessive ot

 

[542thruNthru]

That a very important question because your argument is that 22.4s are gonna drive all their hours....so what will all the 22.4s they bring in on Saturday do Tuesday-Friday if rpcds don’t go home rlo

22.4s will primarily drive where I am.

 

[browned out]

@Turdferguson set us straight on that, with the new CRSA guaranteeing 8 hours when a RPCD bumps into two sorts.

But this notion bares to light a good question, as this new 22.4 classification was billed in part in response to "RPCD's not wanting to work weekends" (I never bought that bill of goods myself).

Makes me now wonder how these "RPCD's" feel about having to work 2 shifts in the sorts, with a 90 minute gap between instead?....what's the lesser of these two evils???

Why didn't the Master, Supplemental or Local Negotiating committees (save NORCAL & a couple other areas) protect RPCDs?

Why the hell should an RPCD have to preload, unload, load, etc. when actual package car driver work exists on Saturday and Sunday?

Preventing UNWANTED EXCESSIVE OT AND UNWANTED PACKAGE CAR WEEKEND WORK was stated as a demand or request of current package car drivers. Creating a guaranteed 40 hour 22.4 position while not guaranteeing RPCDs 40 hours is ludicrous and irresponsible.

Giving RPCDs the right to VOLUNTARILY work Sat and Sun if they have not reached 40 hours should have been in the Master..IN NO WAY would that right "interfere" with Unwanted OT and Weekend work. Some RPCDs (who can't get 40 hrs during the week) will want it and need it. No RPCD would BE forced to work a normal Sat or Sun.

The gross negligence or willfull intent of the horrible language was most likely collusion between UPS and Hoffa/Hall/Taylor .

At best; The Teamsters violated the NLRB Act by Not Fulfilling Their Duty of Fair Representation DURING CONTRACT NEGOTIATIONS

UPS could contractually divert almost all resi deliveries to Wed thru Sundays. Canabalizing the majority of routes on Mon and Tues.

It's a joke. Its garbage. It's a failure of the DFR.

We will continue to fight this in 243.

Hoffa/Taylor are already on the hook for this.

The Leaders of 243 will be next in line if they do not get answers thru due diligence.

 

[Whatbrownwontdoforyou]

22.4s will primarily drive where I am.
View attachment 240929

I agree that they are gonna drive 90% of the time but I don’t see where they can use 25% 22.4s Tuesday-Friday for 8 hours each without doing inside work

 

[Bubblehead]

I agree that they are gonna drive 90% of the time but I don’t see where they can use 25% 22.4s Tuesday-Friday for 8 hours each without doing inside work

So you don't think 25% of the RPCD's will be willing to take a scheduled day off on any given day....especially Friday?

I do, seeing they already are.

 

[542thruNthru]

I agree that they are gonna drive 90% of the time but I don’t see where they can use 25% 22.4s Tuesday-Friday for 8 hours each without doing inside work

That would honestly depend on the area. Here they will easily be able to go to 25% with in a year or so.

I say that because 22.4s will be replacing our PT Cover Drivers. We are already at about 20% cover drivers and they work year round as drivers.

 

[browned out]

With the amount of new drivers in progression they could have implemented the plan that you are talking about....they could have taken all the overtime away from top rate drivers and given all to drivers in progression....but they didn’t or couldn’t because most were working all the overtime they wanted to the point that it was a top proposal for the new contract to cut excessive ot

That has happened in our center. OT is way down. Low seniority drivers are working. What do you think will happen when 22.4s enter the mix? Don't fool yourself.

Next. 22.4 hours way up. RPCDs laid off. This is a solid prediction. Profits up. RPCDs laid off.

 

[Benben]

OOOOO BUG, Where are you?

 

[BigUnionGuy]

You are a piece of work!

Supplement, Art 3, section 6: A laid off full time may displace 1 part time and be guaranteed 3.5 hours. (at prevailing rate of pay for that classification which is lower!) or 2 part time employees where there less than a 90 min gap!

So when a lower seniority RPCD walks in on Monday to find his/her work was raped by the 22.4 on Saturday he or she can work the evening shift and since there is no other part time work that day they get 3.5 hours at a lower pay!

Please correct me if I am reading it wrong!


2.2 of the master has no bearing in what we are talking about, why would you have even thrown that out there?

That's all you can come up with ?

You really don't have a clue.... do you.

 

[DELACROIX]

@Turdferguson set us straight on that, with the new CRSA guaranteeing 8 hours when a RPCD bumps into two sorts.

But this notion bares to light a good question, as this new 22.4 classification was billed in part in response to "RPCD's not wanting to work weekends" (I never bought that bill of goods myself).

Makes me now wonder how these "RPCD's" feel about having to work 2 shifts in the sorts, with a 90 minute gap between instead?....what's the lesser of these two evils???

So you don't think 25% of the RPCD's will be willing to take a scheduled day off on any given day....especially Friday?

I do, seeing they already are.

This new classification (22.4) and it's supplemental language on the RPCD positions just created what the Company has been eyeing for decades it is called a (Part time package car option.) Currently we are having 22.3s willing to work just 4 to 6 hours and go home (actual), what happens when there a 90 minute gap in order to get your straight 8 hour guarantee?

The Union wins because these new so-called (full time positions) pay into their Health and Welfare and Pension funds. To be fair this contract did address the excessive O/T issue, the problem is that most of us got real attached to our 45 to 60 hour paycheck. Another thought about these new 22.4s positions will be where most of them will be placed nationwide, it would be beneficial for the Union to created them where they would be paying into (their Pension and Health and Welfare plans).

The Company wins because of the flexibility of scheduling 24/7 operation and the added surplus of potential savings on pension credits when these bid full timers leave before their eight hours. Overtime in ALL operations was the real goal with this contract, pretty soon we will have a ton of lower seniority members being on progression just begging for work and any added progression rate language is a money saver with the Company.

 

[Whatbrownwontdoforyou]

So you don't think 25% of the RPCD's will be willing to take a scheduled day off on any given day....especially Friday?

I do, seeing they already are.

I do also but that is us giving the job away to 22.4s......in order for a contract to work members have to do their part and enforce their rights and the contract.....I'm not saying ups isn't going to try and take advantage of the situation......I'm not naive......but like a lot of other contractual issues members cut corners or make side deals for their benefit.......like working through lunch,22.3 air drivers doing ground work to try and stay on road for their 8 hours and members doing favors to get rlo out of seniority order

 

[BigUnionGuy]

So when a lower seniority RPCD walks in on Monday to find his/her work was raped by the 22.4 on Saturday he or she can work the evening shift and since there is no other part time work that day they get 3.5 hours at a lower pay.

A full time driver has to be laid-off for a week.... before bumping part-timers.

Article 3 Section 5.

2.2 of the master has no bearing in what we are talking about, why would you have even thrown that out there?

It is absolutely applicable in this situation.

 

[Inthegame]

This new classification (22.4) and it's supplemental language on the RPCD positions just created what the Company has been eyeing for decades it is called a (Part time package car option.)

Plenty of pt "air" drivers already doing that, unchallenged by RCPD's.

Currently we are having 22.3s willing to work just 4 to 6 hours and go home (actual), what happens when there a 90 minute gap in order to get your straight 8 hour guarantee?

They have a guarantee. Why aren't they demanding it?

The Union wins because these new so-called (full time positions) pay into their Health and Welfare and Pension funds.

So now it's the union winning?
"Their" H&W and Pension plans are your plans, they belong to and exist for
members. Would you prefer negotiators ignore the needs of benefit plans?

To be fair this contract did address the excessive O/T issue, the problem is that most of us got real attached to our 45 to 60 hour paycheck.

Most got used to 45, not 60. Excessive OT was high on the list of issues to be remedied.

Another thought about these new 22.4s positions will be where most of them will be placed nationwide, it would be beneficial for the Union to created them where they would be paying into (their Pension and Health and Welfare plans).

And the union now determines where customers are? They'll be placed where the need exists.

The Company wins because of the flexibility of scheduling 24/7 operation and the added surplus of potential savings on pension credits when these bid full timers leave before their eight hours.

They already had flexibility of scheduling 24/7, what they didn't have until recently was competition working 24/7.
How are pension contributions (credits) saved when 22.4's are guaranteed hours?

Overtime in ALL operations was the real goal with this contract, pretty soon we will have a ton of lower seniority members being on progression just begging for work and any added progression rate language is a money saver with the Company.

So now we're discussing the 2023 CBA. Vote NO!

 

[BigUnionGuy]

Currently we are having 22.3s willing to work just 4 to 6 hours and go home (actual)

They have a guarantee. Why aren't they demanding it?

Because the "thought" of a full-time job at UPS sounded good....

until they actually had to do it.

 

[Bubblehead]

Plenty of pt "air" drivers already doing that, unchallenged by RCPD's.

"Unchallenged" by RPCD's, or not supported by the Kangaroo Court Panels they are brought to and the applicable Article 40 Master language that is systematically ignored?

Come on ITG, the blame game on this issue extends well beyond the members.