Is PAS the Union buster?

[paidslave]

To all u suck arse employees and you know who you are maybe u don't!

Do the job the right way and maybe someone will cover your arse when the crapola hits the fan..


You heard it hear first and I believe lots of veteran drivers would agree.


To all employees.....Get off the DOCK before your start time already!


We recently had a major accident where a driver went on the dock before his start time (been doing this for years) and accidently fell off the dock and broke his neck. He is now paralyzed from the waste down. Believe it or not!

Ups is denying his claim because HE was not on Company time. IF any supervisor coerces you to get on the dock remember what happened before you! History might repeat itself...and make sure you think of your familiy and little ones before you try chase imaginary numbers

Wow, imaging being in a wheel chair the rest of your life because you wanted to help out your pathetic supervisors numbers!

What a saint......


At least the supervisor got fired for allowing this!

 

[upsdude]

To all u suck arse employees and you know who you are maybe u don't!

Do the job the right way and maybe someone will cover your arse when the crapola hits the fan..


You heard it hear first and I believe lots of veteran drivers would agree.


To all employees.....Get off the DOCK before your start time already!


We recently had a major accident where a driver went on the dock before his start time (been doing this for years) and accidently fell off the dock and broke his neck. He is now paralyzed from the waste down. Believe it or not!

Ups is denying his claim because HE was not on Company time. IF any supervisor coerces you to get on the dock remember what happened before you! History might repeat itself...and make sure you think of your familiy and little ones before you try chase imaginary numbers

Wow, imaging being in a wheel chair the rest of your life because you wanted to help out your pathetic supervisors numbers!

What a saint......


At least the supervisor got fired for allowing this!

No doubt that is a horrible situation, I pray for a miracle.

Workers comp laws vary from state to state. Where I live that injured employee would be covered. A comp lawyer told me if I fell in the parking lot on my way into work I’d be covered. He said the company would fight it as he would expect them to. He also said that if, and he doubted they would, win the case he would then file a civil suit (personal injury) and collect damages.

BTW folks, UPS doesn’t ship for free so you shouldn’t be working for free.

 

[trplnkl]

PAS has never been conceived as a "union buster". I've attended a lot of PAS presentations and reviews and this has NEVER been mentioned.

I don't know what your position is with the company, but I'm guessing some level of management. Unless you are at least a district manager or higher, there are tons of things you will never hear that would probably curl your toenails. District level and down are only privy to the conversation where it pertains to implementing the plan (whatever that plan may be at the time).

While PAS has not resulted in the benefits originally envisioned, PAS centers are not losing money (on average). As a whole, service, cost, and visibility elements are improved in those centers.

I can only speak of my center and I just can't believe this is true. I'm NOT calling you a liar, I'm sure you believe the hype that is being fed to you. The company has a history of...hmmm..stretching the truth to acquire the desired results, if you know what I mean.

This is what is curious about PAS. All the PAS centers have the exact same program. They are supported by the exact same corporate people, and have training materials.

Some are doing well, and some pooly. Look at the responses on this board. Some say PAS is a "nightmare" and others say its a great tool.

I think it all comes down to the local management.

Where the success of pas does hinge alot on local management, there are other factors involved also. The DOL has to be correct, the data base received from the USPS has to be correct and number of plans used to implement each days dispatch needs to be better synchronized.
I'm not taking up for my center manager, I personally think he's a pinhead that would rather tell you a lie while in a tree than to come to earth and be truthful. But the system is flawed along with less than desirable data input.

P-Man

 

[pretzel_man]

Wow, they have training manuals? Our on car sup who is the one handling the system now is learning it by trial and error, and not doing a very good job of it. He has no idea how to specify that certain stops are to be loaded on the floor and his add cuts are breathtaking in their inefficiency.
He is now training a PT sup to take over and he was telling us that the FT basically just told him to do his best and play around with it until it does what he wants.

If your sup goes into the internal web and types the word DPS into the searh box, he/she will see a site for DPS and PAS.

You would be amazed at the amount of information there.

P-Man

 

[pretzel_man]

trplnkl:

I appreciate you not calling me a liar, and I am not calling you one either. We are both seeing things from our perspective.

You ask about my position in the company, and yes I'm in management.

I've been fourtunate enough to get to be in enough meetings with people at high enough levels that I'm sure I'm correct that PAS was not conceived as a union buster.

I had opportunites to receive presentations from the corporate people that implemented the system, and have even attended a meeting or two where Mike Eskew was there talking about it.

Now, as I said, the implementation has not met the original goals. The items you mention (especially DOL) are local items to resolve. Some are IE issues, some center supervisor (PDS), and some for other center personnel.

I've personally see great and poor PAS sites and the difference has always been the district management people.

Mike Eskew once said that PAS usage needs to mature and age a little (like a fine wine). Hopefully your site turns into the fine wine, and not vinegar.

Best of luck to you.

P-Man

 

[LKLND3380]

BTW folks, UPS doesn’t ship for free so you shouldn’t be working for free.

UPS wont even give UPSers "REAL" employee discounts on shipping... Yes we can go to UPS Store and ship from their inflated price at a discount. We should be able to bring a package to our center's customer counter and get 25% of the lowest rate...

I paid over $6.00 to send an evelope that I could have sent USPS for under $5.00 and delivered in three days...

 

[brownblood]

Well said P Man. It is always the failure of the people using the tool. They fail to use as it was intended, they fail to put the time into it, they fail to get the support by upper management. There are good and poor managmenet people everywhere. If it is an issue with poor management, then again, it's the failure of upper management (people) to hold that individual accoutable. It is no different than a poorly maintained alpha load chart. It's not the tool's fault!!

 

[under the radar]

Wow, they have training manuals? Our on car sup who is the one handling the system now is learning it by trial and error, and not doing a very good job of it. He has no idea how to specify that certain stops are to be loaded on the floor and his add cuts are breathtaking in their inefficiency.
He is now training a PT sup to take over and he was telling us that the FT basically just told him to do his best and play around with it until it does what he wants.

Our PAS must have been implemented properly. We've been on it for a few years and it's never the topic of discussion in our center. It's not 100% perfect but I would DREAD going back to the pre-PAS days.

 

[trplnkl]

All I can testify to is what I see, and I can relate what I am told by management. IT seems that every complaint that is brought up concerning pas, pal, edd is something that nothing can be done about. It strikes me as odd that on some areas within the center, the system seems to be about 95% correct, in others less than 50%. When I try to get something fixed, I get no results, only excuses or claims that the system won't allow that. I've had many adjustment requests go without change. Other drivers tell me the same is true for them. It is very frustrating and discourages anyone from future attempts to make it right.
Hopefully one day someone will wake up and make this system do what it is intended to do.


Brownblood, sometimes the tool is flawed and ill designed for the job, just ask any golfer.

 

[IWorkAsDirected]

trplnkl:

I appreciate you not calling me a liar, and I am not calling you one either. We are both seeing things from our perspective.

You ask about my position in the company, and yes I'm in management.

I've been fourtunate enough to get to be in enough meetings with people at high enough levels that I'm sure I'm correct that PAS was not conceived as a union buster.

I had opportunites to receive presentations from the corporate people that implemented the system, and have even attended a meeting or two where Mike Eskew was there talking about it.

Now, as I said, the implementation has not met the original goals. The items you mention (especially DOL) are local items to resolve. Some are IE issues, some center supervisor (PDS), and some for other center personnel.

I've personally see great and poor PAS sites and the difference has always been the district management people.

Mike Eskew once said that PAS usage needs to mature and age a little (like a fine wine). Hopefully your site turns into the fine wine, and not vinegar.

Best of luck to you.

P-Man

I personally do not believe pas can work in our center the way ie insists it must be implemented. We are not on road until 10-10:30 in the morning, our air has to be dropped to go to the airport by 4:45 and our outbound trailer pull at 6:00. The way ie insists it has to be set up and say the program cannot change, is that the routes have to loop as a horseshoe shape and there has to be an am and pm side.

What this results in is every driver is the farthest away from the center and the air drop site when they have to take in their outbound, then drive back out to finish deliveries.

Also, the way the routes change each day in the loops (again ie says this cannot be fixed) some drivers will end up with 100-120 business stops in a day and they are either missed or if they are fortunate enough to be open late will get their deliveries after 5:00 I think this is totally unacceptable. I'm glad I'm not a ups customer depending on my daily deliveries. What happend to all the ups hype of being able to get things there in a timely manner so that businesses do not have to stock ahead.

Another big problem is that some routes now are looped so that drivers are doing pick ups in the morning. This a ridculous mess and everyone but ie suffers.

 

[pretzel_man]

IWork, Trpl:

I'm sorry that your management team (including IE) is giving you false information.

The things you mentioned are easily changed. (assuming its the right thing to do). Making an edit takes minutes and would be applied the next day.

I'm not guessing about this. I've done it.

It seems unfortunate that your management team there is blaming a program for something they either don't know how to do, aren't willing to do, or don't think is the wrong thing to do.

P-Man

 

[Will Work For PAS]

This is what is curious about PAS. All the PAS centers have the exact same program. They are supported by the exact same corporate people, and have training materials.

Some are doing well, and some pooly. Look at the responses on this board. Some say PAS is a "nightmare" and others say its a great tool.

I think it all comes down to the local management.

P-Man

I've seen and been involved in a number of PAS implementations and the things that separate the good sites from the bad ones are as follows:

1) A well thought out loop structure. Region employees looked at the maps for all centers and spent a few hours drawing loop boundaries and baselines that looked good on a map. Center managers would sit there and know the loops wouldn't work, but wouldn't speak up. Sometimes the maps were drawn hastily because the region people wanted to get back to their homes. The smart center managers and PAS teams started the implementations by looking at region's structure to see if they could make it work. If not, they stood their ground and either put it in their own way or sent region a re-drawn set of boundaries for approval. Some centers disregarded region's map and decided that they would accept a little wrist-slap for a system that would work for them. Centers that weren't smart just complained and put in region's flawed loop structure. This was a local management issue. The loop structure has nothing to do with PAS, but everything to do with the success of PAS.

2) Proper resources dedicated to the implementation. This is an area where UPS really messed up. It takes a lot of resources to reloop a center, and not only that, it takes the right resources. In many cases UPS wouldn't free up the people that had the area knowledge that was necessary to do the loop work. They added the loop work to their responsibilities without taking anything off them. As could be expected, the loop work took a back seat to the daily needs of the center and they didn't have time to do a good job on the loops and area trace. Centers managers implementing PAS often continued to get whacked for missing SPORH when they tried to spend paid time for driver reviews. A little investment with the drivers at that time would have paid itself back many times. Centers that were successful took the beatings on SPORH and/or found out a way to isolate a strong center team member and dedicate them to putting in good loops. Centers that were unsuccessful didn't work on their own loops. Instead, they had a PAS team member that had been with UPS for a year or so do the loop work pretty much on their own (the dreaded IE guy who wanted to do a good job but couldn't).

3) Proper resources allocated to the center dispatch team. Corporate dropped the ball here because they had designed a management structure that the "center of the future" was supposed to follow. When it actually came to putting the additional supervisors in place, however, the districts all thought they could cut corners and not add all the people necessary. Corporate and region mgt should never have let this happen. As a result, many (I would even say most) centers can't fix many of the complaints we see here because they don't have the staffing that they are supposed to have to make the system work. I think corporate should immediately evaluate the dispatch teams in every center and make sure that there is enough management to cover all the required tasks. Instead, they just irritate people by creating worthless WFI committees to address the hours issues. There are a number of sites left to put on PAS - how many supervisors (pt or ft) are planned to be added to cover these sites? I think I know the answer, but I'd ask that question in your WFI meeting if I were you.

4) Skilled PDS's. A highly skilled PDS can overcome many of the issues discussed previously. In many cases, however, PDS's were hired off he street. The hours are terrible so a number of centers have a turnover problem in this position. Upper district management also doesn't know what skills to look for in a PDS candidate, therefore there are many people in this job that shouldn't be there. Center managers also don't realize that they have to be engaged with the PDS in order for a center to be successful so they create a lot of frustration for them. How many PDS's have you seen quit out of frustration - and how many are thinking about quitting now?

PAS could work. The problems are mainly management issues in my opinion. Have a good week next week. Sorry for the lengthy post.

 

[IWorkAsDirected]

I've seen and been involved in a number of PAS implementations and the things that separate the good sites from the bad ones are as follows:

1) A well thought out loop structure. Region employees looked at the maps for all centers and spent a few hours drawing loop boundaries and baselines that looked good on a map. Center managers would sit there and know the loops wouldn't work, but wouldn't speak up. Sometimes the maps were drawn hastily because the region people wanted to get back to their homes. The smart center managers and PAS teams started the implementations by looking at region's structure to see if they could make it work. If not, they stood their ground and either put it in their own way or sent region a re-drawn set of boundaries for approval. Some centers disregarded region's map and decided that they would accept a little wrist-slap for a system that would work for them. Centers that weren't smart just complained and put in region's flawed loop structure. This was a local management issue. The loop structure has nothing to do with PAS, but everything to do with the success of PAS.

2) Proper resources dedicated to the implementation. This is an area where UPS really messed up. It takes a lot of resources to reloop a center, and not only that, it takes the right resources. In many cases UPS wouldn't free up the people that had the area knowledge that was necessary to do the loop work. They added the loop work to their responsibilities without taking anything off them. As could be expected, the loop work took a back seat to the daily needs of the center and they didn't have time to do a good job on the loops and area trace. Centers managers implementing PAS often continued to get whacked for missing SPORH when they tried to spend paid time for driver reviews. A little investment with the drivers at that time would have paid itself back many times. Centers that were successful took the beatings on SPORH and/or found out a way to isolate a strong center team member and dedicate them to putting in good loops. Centers that were unsuccessful didn't work on their own loops. Instead, they had a PAS team member that had been with UPS for a year or so do the loop work pretty much on their own (the dreaded IE guy who wanted to do a good job but couldn't).

3) Proper resources allocated to the center dispatch team. Corporate dropped the ball here because they had designed a management structure that the "center of the future" was supposed to follow. When it actually came to putting the additional supervisors in place, however, the districts all thought they could cut corners and not add all the people necessary. Corporate and region mgt should never have let this happen. As a result, many (I would even say most) centers can't fix many of the complaints we see here because they don't have the staffing that they are supposed to have to make the system work. I think corporate should immediately evaluate the dispatch teams in every center and make sure that there is enough management to cover all the required tasks. Instead, they just irritate people by creating worthless WFI committees to address the hours issues. There are a number of sites left to put on PAS - how many supervisors (pt or ft) are planned to be added to cover these sites? I think I know the answer, but I'd ask that question in your WFI meeting if I were you.

4) Skilled PDS's. A highly skilled PDS can overcome many of the issues discussed previously. In many cases, however, PDS's were hired off he street. The hours are terrible so a number of centers have a turnover problem in this position. Upper district management also doesn't know what skills to look for in a PDS candidate, therefore there are many people in this job that shouldn't be there. Center managers also don't realize that they have to be engaged with the PDS in order for a center to be successful so they create a lot of frustration for them. How many PDS's have you seen quit out of frustration - and how many are thinking about quitting now?

PAS could work. The problems are mainly management issues in my opinion. Have a good week next week. Sorry for the lengthy post.

I want to print this out and give it to my center manager and the ft sup who is doing the dispatch. They are committed to making this work and I feel for them, our center is a complete DISASTER. It's all IE and the PAS team who made it fail so far, and I don't see how it can be fixed, there aren't enough people or hours in the day (and night) to do it. IE and the PAS team were smug and unresponsive to any concerns, it was simply "our way, end of discussion"

 

[brownmonster]

It's a typical computer upgrade. Tech Geeks talk mgmnt of companies into these magic programs and the companies think you just plug them in and go. Your post nailed every issue in our center on the head. After 2 years now we try to be effecient inspite of PAS instead of because of PAS. Altough I still don't think it's a mile-saving miracle system, done properly it could be a benefit. Too bad it wasn't.

 

[Will Work For PAS]

I want to print this out and give it to my center manager and the ft sup who is doing the dispatch. They are committed to making this work and I feel for them, our center is a complete DISASTER. It's all IE and the PAS team who made it fail so far, and I don't see how it can be fixed, there aren't enough people or hours in the day (and night) to do it. IE and the PAS team were smug and unresponsive to any concerns, it was simply "our way, end of discussion"

You missed my point. It's not IE and the PAS team that made it fail. Your center manager has to get involved and lead the process or you're going to have big problems. Your center manager is in charge of the process. If he/she throws their arms up in the air and lets it happen without their input then you should blame them - their bad. Print this out and tell them to make sure that you're expecting him/her to make sure that the center is properly looped.

 

[RAGGEDSTEP]

Will work for PAS, I was involved in the implementation of Controlled Dispatch so consider me dated. It does seem that the exact same problems still exist. Bottom line--the system will only work as well as the data used to run it. This requires time and knowledge.

I do wonder about one other issue. In my time, there were the purist who insisted that all loops and routes be designed in such a way to maximize travel efficiency. There were others, blasphemers like myself, who maintained that UPS generates revenue on volume and not SPORH. Therefore, CMs should have latitude for delivery and PICKUP TIMES. I.E., if a company ships 200 boxes of rocks and wants a 16:00 PU time, we need to make sure that happens even if a driver has to break off.

Do these conflicts in approach still exist?

 

[IWorkAsDirected]

You missed my point. It's not IE and the PAS team that made it fail. Your center manager has to get involved and lead the process or you're going to have big problems. Your center manager is in charge of the process. If he/she throws their arms up in the air and lets it happen without their input then you should blame them - their bad. Print this out and tell them to make sure that you're expecting him/her to make sure that the center is properly looped.

The problem as I see it is that my center team knows very little about the program and are relying on the one ie person and the statements made by others as far as what they can do. The only solution I see is to start over from scratch and re-loop the entire center, I really don't believe there is enough people or time to accomplish this, they can't depend on the pas team or ie to help as they think they know it all, they won't even get their fat ***** out and try to drive through one single route to see what a mess they've made. What makes it so irritating is they (two IE people) have been working right here in our center for 4 MONTHS and have not accepted any input, or tried to really look at what they were doing realistically for example go out and LOOK!!

Example: All holds (will calls) must be put in every day, all businesses which are spaed to 7000-8000 shelves cannot be permanently changed from that area they have to be changed manually every day to prevent service failures as drivers cannot find them and pull them out of the packed trucks etc,etc,etc

 

[IWorkAsDirected]

You missed my point. It's not IE and the PAS team that made it fail. Your center manager has to get involved and lead the process or you're going to have big problems. Your center manager is in charge of the process. If he/she throws their arms up in the air and lets it happen without their input then you should blame them - their bad. Print this out and tell them to make sure that you're expecting him/her to make sure that the center is properly looped.

Did you read my post you quoted carefully? The PAS team and IE people would NOT accept any input it was "my way end of discussion" So OVIOUSLY it is their fault it failed "end of discussion"

 

[IWorkAsDirected]

The problem as I see it is that my center team knows very little about the program and are relying on the one ie person and the statements made by others as far as what they can do. The only solution I see is to start over from scratch and re-loop the entire center, I really don't believe there is enough people or time to accomplish this, they can't depend on the pas team or ie to help as they think they know it all, they won't even get their fat ***** out and try to drive through one single route to see what a mess they've made. What makes it so irritating is they (two IE people) have been working right here in our center for 4 MONTHS and have not accepted any input, or tried to really look at what they were doing realistically for example go out and LOOK!!

Example: All holds (will calls) must be put in every day, all businesses which are spaed to 7000-8000 shelves cannot be permanently changed from that area they have to be changed manually every day to prevent service failures as drivers cannot find them and pull them out of the packed trucks etc,etc,etc

AND these businesses change almost EVERY day as the baseline routes change every day the same businesses are on different trucks completely different routes, this is a ridiculous way to run a business, I can't see how UPS can possibly survive with this mess and I know it's not just my center, I have been researching this for 2 years in anticipation of the implementation here so I would know what to expect, unfortunately I was right even though I was hoping there had been enough improvements made that it would not be like this. I feel for the management team and especially for the customers who cannot depend on their packages being delivered in a timely manner and possibly not even on the day they should be. This is nothing but a complete disaster. Absolutely no one is happy, not the drivers, not management and certainly not the customers how is this good business???????? Service?? no such thing any more like someone else said "I see more every day why the word service is no longer on our package cars"

 

[MgtUPSerintheWest]

I am in mgt and the PAS Coordinator for a district out west.

In all discussions I have been involved in, and in all presentations that I have recieved, PAS as a union buster has never been mentioned.

It is a system that if set up and maintained properly (and it is alot of work) it will determine the most efficient and effective routes possible. Where it is set up and maintained properly, the system IS saving that center significant costs, especially in miles.

The vision of PAS continues as part of UPSs overall plan to track each package from the moment of pickup through each step of it's travel until it is delivered. Some of those steps are missing. However, as it currently stands, it is far above anything our competitors have. If and when FedEx unionizes, they will either have to do something like PAS, or driver costs will become so high they cannot afford to remain in business. Other competitors that do not deliver the large volume of pkgs that we do still can get away with inefficient delivery processes.

As an FYI, in our district, we actively encourage drivers to sit down with the PDSs in the center to discuss better trace in their routes. Where this is done, the majority of drivers have found it very beneficial.

Hope this helps. Service Providers are the most important part of this company. To keep it successful, we are going to need to work together. This goes for both sides.