Jon Frum what is your opion stay with teamsters or apwa ups only union

[any122]

In your opinion Mr.FRUM should the employees stay with the IBT or go on our own?You seem to be very educated in this please state your opinion and the ups and downs of the two unions.Should we stay with the mismanaged teamsters or go with the employees union that will be run buy the people who make UPS what it is today?After all I don't agree that the IBT has the best interest of the workers of UPS in mind.You should be able to weigh the plus & minus of making this huge change.thanks your opinion is much appreciated.

 

[benschreivogel]

Nothing unbiased sounding about that question.

 

[JonFrum]

The Teamsters are a dysfunctional organization in every way imaginable. Apparently, this is exactly the way Teamsters Officialdom wants it. They have devoted decades to fine-tuning the organization's structure and policies, and consider their dysfunctionality a matter of Teamsters Pride! Everyone that has tried to reform the Teamsters, in whatever manner, has met with intense opposition and failed. The Law, the government, the courts, and the press are of little help. The Teamsters is designed and run like a one-party state with a "Ministry of Propaganda" that is firmly in control. Teamsters officials seem to be willing to go down with the ship rather than change. Organized Labor, as a whole, has been going steadily down hill for half a century, and is currently about as low as you can go. They are clueless. The Teamsters are worse because of their long-standing crime-and-corruption-friendly attitude. They have priced themselves out of the market with their dues increases, and mismanaged their pension and health & welfare funds to the point where I don't see very many people wanting to join. I assume they will, in effect, slowly decertify themselves into non-existence over the next decade or so by their unwise actions and inactions. We should all be monitoring this situation very, very closely as our futures depend on it.

I wish I could express an informed opinion on the APWA, but for reasons known only to them, they refuse to publish adequate information or update their website. If you can pry any info out of them, please do so and post it on BrownCafe. Inquiring minds want to know.

 

[Bill]

The Teamsters are a dysfunctional organization in every way imaginable. Apparently, this is exactly the way Teamsters Officialdom wants it. They have devoted decades to fine-tuning the organization's structure and policies, and consider their dysfunctionality a matter of Teamsters Pride! Everyone that has tried to reform the Teamsters, in whatever manner, has met with intense opposition and failed. The Law, the government, the courts, and the press are of little help. The Teamsters is designed and run like a one-party state with a "Ministry of Propaganda" that is firmly in control. Teamsters officials seem to be willing to go down with the ship rather than change. Organized Labor, as a whole, has been going steadily down hill for half a century, and is currently about as low as you can go. They are clueless. The Teamsters are worse because of their long-standing crime-and-corruption-friendly attitude. They have priced themselves out of the market with their dues increases, and mismanaged their pension and health & welfare funds to the point where I don't see very many people wanting to join. I assume they will, in effect, slowly decertify themselves into non-existence over the next decade or so by their unwise actions and inactions. We should all be monitoring this situation very, very closely as our futures depend on it.

I wish I could express an informed opinion on the APWA, but for reasons known only to them, they refuse to publish adequate information or update their website. If you can pry any info out of them, please do so and post it on BrownCafe. Inquiring minds want to know.

I couldn't have said it better than you did about the Teamsters. They are a corrupt organization that is only looking out for their best interests, and not the hard working people who pay their huge undeserved salaries. By replacing the Teamsters with the
apwa, we can form a UPS only union that will work for us, and give us back the medical and pension benefits that we lost under the Teamster leadership.

 

[Bill]

The Teamsters are a dysfunctional organization in every way imaginable. Apparently, this is exactly the way Teamsters Officialdom wants it. They have devoted decades to fine-tuning the organization's structure and policies, and consider their dysfunctionality a matter of Teamsters Pride! Everyone that has tried to reform the Teamsters, in whatever manner, has met with intense opposition and failed. The Law, the government, the courts, and the press are of little help. The Teamsters is designed and run like a one-party state with a "Ministry of Propaganda" that is firmly in control. Teamsters officials seem to be willing to go down with the ship rather than change. Organized Labor, as a whole, has been going steadily down hill for half a century, and is currently about as low as you can go. They are clueless. The Teamsters are worse because of their long-standing crime-and-corruption-friendly attitude. They have priced themselves out of the market with their dues increases, and mismanaged their pension and health & welfare funds to the point where I don't see very many people wanting to join. I assume they will, in effect, slowly decertify themselves into non-existence over the next decade or so by their unwise actions and inactions. We should all be monitoring this situation very, very closely as our futures depend on it.

I wish I could express an informed opinion on the APWA, but for reasons known only to them, they refuse to publish adequate information or update their website. If you can pry any info out of them, please do so and post it on BrownCafe. Inquiring minds want to know.

You are way too educated to be associated with the average UPS worker. You have access to information that only a very small percentage of us would have or know where to look. I would like to send you a personal message, but access is blocked to you. Click on engineer79 and leave your E-mail or other form of contacting you. I have my theories on where you sit, but I don't want to comment publicly as of yet.

 

[JonFrum]

Anyone can send me info at [email protected] (but I can't guarantee I'll have time to respond, or that I'll agree with your point of view.) - - - Bill Desmond

 

[brett636]

Nothing unbiased sounding about that question.

You really shouldn't expect much better from any122.

I agree with Jon frum that the Teamsters do in fact need some major overhauling of how they handle issues and manage pensions, but the alternative provides such little information about itself that a good opinion is tough to form. All I know about them is what little is posted on their webpage and the lies that they post here on this board. That doesn't make it a good solution in my book.

 

[nospinzone]

Brett...
I always enjoy rebutting your fabricated "lies" that the APWA is reportedly disseminating. How bout outlining a few for us, so that I might dispel them for our friends.

JonFrum,,,
What specifics might be lacking that you feel would better define the APWA position? I have no tepidation about asking APWA leadership questions and feel that the only stupid question is the one that is not asked.

 

[Bill]

You really shouldn't expect much better from any122.

I agree with Jon frum that the Teamsters do in fact need some major overhauling of how they handle issues and manage pensions, but the alternative provides such little information about itself that a good opinion is tough to form. All I know about them is what little is posted on their webpage and the lies that they post here on this board. That doesn't make it a good solution in my book.

You forgot to mention all the lies that your Teamsters brothers have told you. Number 1: No cuts to your benefits. This was before the contract negotiations in 2002. After the contract was ratified, cuts were starting to take place. Lie number 2: The contract states how much UPS money goes into the pension fund and how much goes for medical benefits. What happened? The medical money was diverted into the pension fund. As a result, we are all playing much more for for our medical care. Would you like to respond to these Teamster lies? What lies are the APWA telling us? Be specific and factual. At least the APWA has a solution, the Teamsters do not.

 

[wildgoose]

You really shouldn't expect much better from any122.

I agree with Jon frum that the Teamsters do in fact need some major overhauling of how they handle issues and manage pensions, but the alternative provides such little information about itself that a good opinion is tough to form. All I know about them is what little is posted on their webpage and the lies that they post here on this board. That doesn't make it a good solution in my book.

What your saying is a major overhaul ? Heh right. Now i know your a dreamer ! Teamsters continue to drop the ball and business like usual. The overhaul needed is a tossing out of the bums who are inept at best !!!!!!! They and only they are responsible for the position they are in now with their pants down around their ankles and running. I bet $100 that their pension and healthcare make ours look like a sham. Who hired who ? Until you all figure out this we all are going to suffer the consequences !

 

[Fredless]

You are way too educated to be associated with the average UPS worker. You have access to information that only a very small percentage of us would have or know where to look. I would like to send you a personal message, but access is blocked to you. Click on engineer79 and leave your E-mail or other form of contacting you. I have my theories on where you sit, but I don't want to comment publicly as of yet.

Wow, thats really a way to get me to vote for you guys if you ever get that far - make me feel less than average and stupid for being a union UPS employee. So not only are you full of empty pomises (so how are you different than the IBT) you put that guy on a pedestal that he's better than everyone else. Is that going to be in your bylaws too? Not every hourly union employee is equal?

 

[ups mechanic]

Wow, thats really a way to get me to vote for you guys if you ever get that far - make me feel less than average and stupid for being a union UPS employee. So not only are you full of empty pomises (so how are you different than the IBT) you put that guy on a pedestal that he's better than everyone else. Is that going to be in your bylaws too? Not every hourly union employee is equal?

I have been with UPS as a hourly for 16 years, I now look to the future and where will I be when my time comes to retire. I am a full time mechanic and did some looking into what mechanics in the AIM unoin are getting when they retire. I asked a unoin stewart why Are they getting more than me? He responded saying that they are a smaller UNION. With IBT there is no cost of living increases, $3000.00 per month is not much when you look at the inflation rate. If you want to look at the IAM web site you can type 21st Century Labor Union | IAMAW. then look for yourself. Go luck.

 

[wildgoose]

You forgot to mention all the lies that your Teamsters brothers have told you. Number 1: No cuts to your benefits. This was before the contract negotiations in 2002. After the contract was ratified, cuts were starting to take place. Lie number 2: The contract states how much UPS money goes into the pension fund and how much goes for medical benefits. What happened? The medical money was diverted into the pension fund. As a result, we are all playing much more for for our medical care. Would you like to respond to these Teamster lies? What lies are the APWA telling us? Be specific and factual. At least the APWA has a solution, the Teamsters do not.

Hoffa is taking his cues from Bush on how to lie straight face ?

 

[wildgoose]

You really shouldn't expect much better from any122.

I agree with Jon frum that the Teamsters do in fact need some major overhauling of how they handle issues and manage pensions, but the alternative provides such little information about itself that a good opinion is tough to form. All I know about them is what little is posted on their webpage and the lies that they post here on this board. That doesn't make it a good solution in my book.

Hey Brett the teamsters overhaul mechanic has been on vacation for a long time so what is our next option ? Trust them 1 till we have gone below the allowed funding so the gov can kick in for $900 + month. No more strikes and who would fallow anyhow ? Just the radicals.

 

[wildgoose]

Wow, thats really a way to get me to vote for you guys if you ever get that far - make me feel less than average and stupid for being a union UPS employee. So not only are you full of empty pomises (so how are you different than the IBT) you put that guy on a pedestal that he's better than everyone else. Is that going to be in your bylaws too? Not every hourly union employee is equal?

What the heck Fredless he didn`t call you personally a yak . Johnfrums writing are of one who had seen info the average joe,Fred or Dewey hasn`t writen. But then again if your spliting hairs maybe you should look into the mirror ?

 

[area43]

The Teamsters are a dysfunctional organization in every way imaginable. Apparently, this is exactly the way Teamsters Officialdom wants it. They have devoted decades to fine-tuning the organization's structure and policies, and consider their dysfunctionality a matter of Teamsters Pride! Everyone that has tried to reform the Teamsters, in whatever manner, has met with intense opposition and failed. The Law, the government, the courts, and the press are of little help. The Teamsters is designed and run like a one-party state with a "Ministry of Propaganda" that is firmly in control. Teamsters officials seem to be willing to go down with the ship rather than change. Organized Labor, as a whole, has been going steadily down hill for half a century, and is currently about as low as you can go. They are clueless. The Teamsters are worse because of their long-standing crime-and-corruption-friendly attitude. They have priced themselves out of the market with their dues increases, and mismanaged their pension and health & welfare funds to the point where I don't see very many people wanting to join. I assume they will, in effect, slowly decertify themselves into non-existence over the next decade or so by their unwise actions and inactions. We should all be monitoring this situation very, very closely as our futures depend on it.

I wish I could express an informed opinion on the APWA, but for reasons known only to them, they refuse to publish adequate information or update their website. If you can pry any info out of them, please do so and post it on BrownCafe. Inquiring minds want to know.

Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, Look at this folks. I actually agree with Jon. Please read the whole thread. Red, I think you need to change your way of thinking. CSer's this is what Jon really thinks about the people in charge of your pension.

 

[satellitedriver]

The Teamsters are a dysfunctional organization in every way imaginable. Apparently, this is exactly the way Teamsters Officialdom wants it. They have devoted decades to fine-tuning the organization's structure and policies, and consider their dysfunctionality a matter of Teamsters Pride! Everyone that has tried to reform the Teamsters, in whatever manner, has met with intense opposition and failed. The Law, the government, the courts, and the press are of little help. The Teamsters is designed and run like a one-party state with a "Ministry of Propaganda" that is firmly in control. Teamsters officials seem to be willing to go down with the ship rather than change. Organized Labor, as a whole, has been going steadily down hill for half a century, and is currently about as low as you can go. They are clueless. The Teamsters are worse because of their long-standing crime-and-corruption-friendly attitude. They have priced themselves out of the market with their dues increases, and mismanaged their pension and health & welfare funds to the point where I don't see very many people wanting to join. I assume they will, in effect, slowly decertify themselves into non-existence over the next decade or so by their unwise actions and inactions. We should all be monitoring this situation very, very closely as our futures depend on it.

I wish I could express an informed opinion on the APWA, but for reasons known only to them, they refuse to publish adequate information or update their website. If you can pry any info out of them, please do so and post it on BrownCafe. Inquiring minds want to know.

I agree with the majority of your post.
PAX

 

[area43]

The Teamsters are a dysfunctional organization in every way imaginable. Apparently, this is exactly the way Teamsters Officialdom wants it. They have devoted decades to fine-tuning the organization's structure and policies, and consider their dysfunctionality a matter of Teamsters Pride! Everyone that has tried to reform the Teamsters, in whatever manner, has met with intense opposition and failed. The Law, the government, the courts, and the press are of little help. The Teamsters is designed and run like a one-party state with a "Ministry of Propaganda" that is firmly in control. Teamsters officials seem to be willing to go down with the ship rather than change. Organized Labor, as a whole, has been going steadily down hill for half a century, and is currently about as low as you can go. They are clueless. The Teamsters are worse because of their long-standing crime-and-corruption-friendly attitude. They have priced themselves out of the market with their dues increases, and mismanaged their pension and health & welfare funds to the point where I don't see very many people wanting to join. I assume they will, in effect, slowly decertify themselves into non-existence over the next decade or so by their unwise actions and inactions. We should all be monitoring this situation very, very closely as our futures depend on it.

I wish I could express an informed opinion on the APWA, but for reasons known only to them, they refuse to publish adequate information or update their website. If you can pry any info out of them, please do so and post it on BrownCafe. Inquiring minds want to know.

Hi Jonnie, its been a while. Just had the day off. I thought I would roll up my sleeves and do a little diggin in the ol' archives. Hmmmmm, Dysfuntional would that be the same as having a mental illness? LMAO UPsers please refer to Jons "Bite Me" post. Permalink #75. Thread titled "Jonfrum" by a43.

The APWA. I thought long a hard about this one and I have come to the conclusion that the APWA is a good thing. At first I had my reservations. I believe we all did. I first looked at the Teamsters as a automobile with the transmission broke. Do we replace the whole car or do you just replace the transmission? As I have stated before, I have been basically satisfied with the Teamsters. Now, having said that. Their accounting practices are yet to be desired, to say the least. A lot of that fuzzy math is going on. Yes, you can try and distant the Teamsters from the CS pension plan, saying that the monies contributed(by UPS) goes directly to a investment company, but in the end it all comes down to the fact that they (teamsters) are responsible for our pension. Period. It appears that with the 10 member panel UPS has to take some of the blame. Thus, they are willing(maybe not that willing, forced, can be a better word, perphaps) to do the buy out.

As Jon has pointed out in the above post. Everyone has tried to reform the Teamsters. We all know the main reason the APWA was started was because of the pension mess. The UPSers needed a voice or platform to voice their anger,concerns, betrayal perphaps about the whole situation. I feel that without the APWA this could not be possible. It possilbly could be scattered unorganized burst of protest without them. On the same note I disagree on the approach they are taking to fix it. "The Plan" formerly know as "Cut out the middle man" should be adopted. Easier to explain and I believe more appealing. No made up numbers.

Analogy, yes I have an analogy. LOL Living here in Virgin(I)a we have alot of history. I would like to focus on the Civil War. I believe this is what we have here. The North( damm yankees) are the Teamsters. They are well feed(like feeders) and have the numbers. The South(johnny reb redneck) is the APWA. They are not well feed and they do not have the numbers as of yet. As old Abe Lincoln felt, I also do too. To see Brother and Sister fighting against Brother and Sister is sad. The question to stay with the Teamsters or cut the ties is worth fighting for. The UPSers families welfare are at stake here. As we can see. Wave(thread) after wave(thread). Post(shot) after post(shot). As the War wages on. I would like to see both sides come together like the North and South did at Appomattox, Va. A divided house will fall. In "The Plan" I've tried to compromise and bring in concerns from both sides. I am working on the final draft and will be posting it as a thread, later on for you to comment on, like changes, add things, or just to say "It sucks".LOL

Also, I've noticed there was a thread titled, "APWA in Pennsylvania". Thats where the famous battle of "Gettysburg" was fought. The turning point for the South. I hope the APWA dosen't make the same mistake the South did. They(APWA) needs to retreat, regroup, change their strategy and go with "THE PLAN".

In closing, lets reload and fix bayonets for dawn is breaking and its a good day to do battle. We not only do battle for our generation, but for the generations that will come after us. For they will look on this moment and time in history as the turning point. The Teamsters giving back the control of the pension to the Common Grunt Laborer. What a liberating day that will be. May God Bless and take care. Area 43

 

[govols019]

Don't you ever compare the South to the APWA again. Ever!!

 

[area43]

Don't you ever compare the South to the APWA again. Ever!!

Govols, Im glad your reading my posts. Enjoy. LOL