Management Retirement at 59

[oldngray]

You seem to possess the skill set to attain the position of a career part time supervisor.

 

[SignificantOwner]

Yea Yea Yea and I use to walk 10 miles through the snow to the bus stop.....
Facts are Facts!! UPS is forced to pay one of it's least skilled employees double their market value. I guess my beef is why do 80% of all the drivers hate the company (management) & their job so much.... Pay me double my market value and I won't say one dang negative word.
PS.... I did not say you had a 3rd grade education I just said you only needed one to do your job.

Market value is what the market is willing to pay, and the UPS market has spoken. If you're so concerned about the cost then use your valuable skill and wisdom to change it. Mass slamming a hard working group of people doesn't seem like a good start.

 

[busterbrowns007]

The market is not willing to pay double the market value. The union has a strong hold on the company and they are willing to run UPS out of business to get the most money for their members. UPS is the Teamsters with out UPS they do not exist so they would rather sink the ship then give in a bit. Slamming the drivers is just fair play on the on this BB given how incredibly rude they are to the management. I mean I don't go on their board and brag about how much better the mud flaps are on my truck or how I can shift with out using the clutch...

 

[PASinterference]

The market is not willing to pay double the market value. The union has a strong hold on the company and they are willing to run UPS out of business to get the most money for their members. UPS is the Teamsters with out UPS they do not exist so they would rather sink the ship then give in a bit. Slamming the drivers is just fair play on the on this BB given how incredibly rude they are to the management. I mean I don't go on their board and brag about how much better the mud flaps are on my truck or how I can shift with out using the clutch...

Ok.... So UPS makes 6 billion profit after they pay twice as much as they should to drivers. Since you guys are getting cut maybe UPS realizes YOUR market value regardless of your skill set. UPS is in the business of delivering packages...not employing managers. And dont get pissed about hourly getting on your board when Dragon lurks all the time on the union board waiting to get a jab in.

 

[Dragon]

Ok.... So UPS makes 6 billion profit after they pay twice as much as they should to drivers. Since you guys are getting cut maybe UPS realizes YOUR market value regardless of your skill set. UPS is in the business of delivering packages...not employing managers. And dont get pissed about hourly getting on your board when Dragon lurks all the time on the union board waiting to get a jab in.

I don't lurk, thank you very much. I just interject when you need a dose of reality.

If you think you can do your job with out management go ahead and give it try see how it works out for you. Set up your truck stop for stop in 20 minutes or less, run it with out back tracking and be back in the building under 9.5, (do not use EDD). That's what we did daily before the DIAD.
During the 97 strike we had some drivers attempt to start a delivery business with just a couple of rental trucks, they ended up in debt. They were humbled upon return to work enough said.

I am not against your pay rate, I am just against the way some of you act day in and day out. You get paid a professional rate be a professional please.

 

[TxRoadDawg]

I'm not hating on the union. Atlanta was stupid enough to sign the contracts that turned a low skill blue collar job into a white collar upper class wage set. Pretty funny tho how loudly drivers whine about how they have to earn their money when the total skill set is I didnt wreck and found the right box to drop at the right stop.

Of course those same drivers always yip the loudest about dispatchers that have to set the whole center territory, bulk stops, pickups, 8 hr days, ect ect ect. add in pissing away hours a day scheduling plans 11 days out that NEVER have the same projected stops/routes when its five days out and having to make everything look picture perfect so the center manager can tell the dm to tell the ops manager we checked that box today. Funny part is all that work means nothing the moment the pt sup pulls in epd and blows away that typical day.

I dont mind valid complaints when I cant set things perfectly, but if there was a God after the 29 day sip of driving these noob sups get today they should get to dispatch that center for a month. I get the feeling after that experience I'd get a hella less complaints about how I do my job from those too clueless to comprehend my job.

 

[SignificantOwner]

I'm not hating on the union. Atlanta was stupid enough to sign the contracts that turned a low skill blue collar job into a white collar upper class wage set. Pretty funny tho how loudly drivers whine about how they have to earn their money when the total skill set is I didnt wreck and found the right box to drop at the right stop.

Of course those same drivers always yip the loudest about dispatchers that have to set the whole center territory, bulk stops, pickups, 8 hr days, ect ect ect. add in pissing away hours a day scheduling plans 11 days out that NEVER have the same projected stops/routes when its five days out and having to make everything look picture perfect so the center manager can tell the dm to tell the ops manager we checked that box today. Funny part is all that work means nothing the moment the pt sup pulls in epd and blows away that typical day.

I dont mind valid complaints when I cant set things perfectly, but if there was a God after the 29 day sip of driving these noob sups get today they should get to dispatch that center for a month. I get the feeling after that experience I'd get a hella less complaints about how I do my job from those too clueless to comprehend my job.

Speaking of whining...

 

[1989]

I don't lurk, thank you very much. I just interject when you need a dose of reality.

If you think you can do your job with out management go ahead and give it try see how it works out for you. Set up your truck stop for stop in 20 minutes or less, run it with out back tracking and be back in the building under 9.5, (do not use EDD). That's what we did daily before the DIAD.
During the 97 strike we had some drivers attempt to start a delivery business with just a couple of rental trucks, they ended up in debt. They were humbled upon return to work enough said.

I am not against your pay rate, I am just against the way some of you act day in and day out. You get paid a professional rate be a professional please.

Funny, it seems things ran smoother the old way. Bring back the alpha charts. Pull a 20 stop split off shelf one and put it on shelf 8.

We used to get a building volume projection and have a good idea what each center would get. Now with all the new technology ups has had over the last 20 years, they seem clueless.

PAS is nice but it has created crazy splits (increased miles, drivers cross crossing each other) ORION is suppose to be a mile saver, but when you criss cross each other, what's the point? It also adds riskier behaviors that go against the safe work methods. Yet those risks can't be measured by telematics.

Nothing worse than having a 70 stop split sequenced between 1207 and 1300, and trying to read the hand writing numbers on the spa labels. Then Orion wanting you to start at 7437.

 

[PT Car Washer]

I also thought it was better when drivers had areas. The same stops everyday and in the same order. Misloads were unknown back then.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

I also thought it was better when drivers had areas. The same stops everyday and in the same order. Misloads were unknown back then.

Misloads have grown as our production has increased.

There have always been misloads.

 

[MethodsMan]

I don't lurk, thank you very much. I just interject when you need a dose of reality.

If you think you can do your job with out management go ahead and give it try see how it works out for you. Set up your truck stop for stop in 20 minutes or less, run it with out back tracking and be back in the building under 9.5, (do not use EDD). That's what we did daily before the DIAD.
During the 97 strike we had some drivers attempt to start a delivery business with just a couple of rental trucks, they ended up in debt. They were humbled upon return to work enough said.

I am not against your pay rate, I am just against the way some of you act day in and day out. You get paid a professional rate be a professional please.

.....and without drivers....

Lets hear your take on that side of the subject. We are the ones that get you that bonus.

 

[Catatonic]

.....and without drivers....

Lets hear your take on that side of the subject. We are the ones that get you that bonus.

Or with drivers at half-the-cost?
Not that I want that to happen but the difference in quality and production would probably be insignificant.

 

[IVE GOTTA PACKAGE 4U]

Or with drivers at half-the-cost?
Not that I want that to happen but the difference in quality and production would probably be insignificant.

Drivers at half the cost, would never put up with this crap.

Ive seen enough newbies quit,already!

 

[PASinterference]

I don't lurk, thank you very much. I just interject when you need a dose of reality.

If you think you can do your job with out management go ahead and give it try see how it works out for you. Set up your truck stop for stop in 20 minutes or less, run it with out back tracking and be back in the building under 9.5, (do not use EDD). That's what we did daily before the DIAD.
During the 97 strike we had some drivers attempt to start a delivery business with just a couple of rental trucks, they ended up in debt. They were humbled upon return to work enough said.

I am not against your pay rate, I am just against the way some of you act day in and day out. You get paid a professional rate be a professional please.

Dragon, I didnt mean to be rude but some things just push my buttons. There are alot of good hard working drivers out there that get harrassed daily because of a skewed time study and it puts mgmt in a bad light IMO. But I will tell you, My driving group had no problems in the 90's when we had alot more input on our dispatch. Again , sorry for the attack but I woke up pissed .

 

[Catatonic]

Dragon, I didnt mean to be rude but some things just push my buttons. There are alot of good hard working drivers out there that get harrassed daily because of a skewed time study and it puts mgmt in a bad light IMO. But I will tell you, My driving group had no problems in the 90's when we had alot more input on our dispatch. Again , sorry for the attack but I woke up pissed .

That definitely makes a lot of common sense.
I participated in "looping" a center as a driver and as a supervisor and as an IE and getting driver input was critical to a good implementation. Maintenance was often the issue after a year or two.

 

[IVE GOTTA PACKAGE 4U]

That definitely makes a lot of common sense.
I participated in "looping" a center and as a supervisor and as an IE and getting driver input was critical to a good implementation. Maintenance was often the issue after a year or two.

You nailed It. it is so unbelievably hard,to find somebody to fix it.

 

[SignificantOwner]

Or with drivers at half-the-cost?
Not that I want that to happen but the difference in quality and production would probably be insignificant.

More turnover. More crashes. More theft. More parking loads and walking away. More on job injury claims. More than one strike would take place if there were any attempt made to cut wages in half. Ugly scenario. Wait until after I retire and sell my stock please.

 

[UnconTROLLed]

Or with drivers at half-the-cost?
Not that I want that to happen but the difference in quality and production would probably be insignificant.

What you said is silly. For $16.50/hr versus $33/hr, the difference in worker (quality, production, ATTENDANCE, safety, loyalty) is going to be significant.

That isn't to say there are no advantages to low-wage business models, but overall there is definitely going to be somewhat dwindling returns in most areas.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

More turnover. More crashes. More theft. More parking loads and walking away. More on job injury claims. More than one strike would take place if there were any attempt made to cut wages in half. Ugly scenario. Wait until after I retire and sell my stock please.

What you said is silly. For $16.50/hr versus $33/hr, the difference in worker (quality, production, ATTENDANCE, safety, loyalty) is going to be significant.

That isn't to say there are no advantages to low-wage business models, but overall there is definitely going to be somewhat dwindling returns in most areas.

While I don't think he was proposing an immediate 50% pay cut, there is some validity to Photog's post. FedEx Ground has proven that the job can be performed in an acceptable manner at a much lower price point.

I have posted repeatedly (some would say to excess) about the need for UPS to address the wage inequality through the use of a two-tiered wage structure. I really thought it would be addressed in 2013 but it was put on the back burner in favor of the shifting of the healthcare burden to the union. Other than Obamacare and technology, I see no other obstacles which would prevent its implementation in 2018.

 

[Catatonic]

What you said is silly. For $16.50/hr versus $33/hr, the difference in worker (quality, production, ATTENDANCE, safety, loyalty) is going to be significant.

That isn't to say there are no advantages to low-wage business models, but overall there is definitely going to be somewhat dwindling returns in most areas.

I did not say 1/2 in wages but 1/2 in cost and as UpState realized, I was not talking about cutting existing drivers cost but if "starting from scratch". The cost per hour is well over $50 now with pension (no new startups offer that) or almost free healthcare.