Non-Union?

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Not sure I understand the question.

The discussion was that the managers contact the drivers directly with concerns or operational changes and that they should be doing this through the IC. My question is how would this work if the IC is pulling his own route daily? Do they call him every 5 minutes or so and have him then call his drivers or do they just by-pass the IC?

 

[bbsam]

The discussion was that the managers contact the drivers directly with concerns or operational changes and that they should be doing this through the IC. My question is how would this work if the IC is pulling his own route daily? Do they call him every 5 minutes or so and have him then call his drivers or do they just by-pass the IC?

Yes, the terminal contacts the contractor. "Every 5 minutes", is an exaggeration, however, and in reality issues only come up once or twice a day and are usually minor. By minor I mean something like, "Can you make sure your driver Bill is using complete service crosses so the Van Security Audit at the end of the night is accurate?" Alot of times the calls and questions are more of an irritation than any cause for concern.
As far as an IC driving daily, that is soon going by the way-side in Illinois. The company really wants ISP owners to be more available to "run their buisness". In that case, the company meets with a "key contact" in the morning and brings up service issues, questions and concerns and the "key contact", usually the ISP principal addresses them from that point on. Still much the same as the contractor model should be implemented, only now far more profitable for the ISP pricipal to be off the road.

 

[MrFedEx]

Yes, the terminal contacts the contractor. "Every 5 minutes", is an exaggeration, however, and in reality issues only come up once or twice a day and are usually minor. By minor I mean something like, "Can you make sure your driver Bill is using complete service crosses so the Van Security Audit at the end of the night is accurate?" Alot of times the calls and questions are more of an irritation than any cause for concern.
As far as an IC driving daily, that is soon going by the way-side in Illinois. The company really wants ISP owners to be more available to "run their buisness". In that case, the company meets with a "key contact" in the morning and brings up service issues, questions and concerns and the "key contact", usually the ISP principal addresses them from that point on. Still much the same as the contractor model should be implemented, only now far more profitable for the ISP pricipal to be off the road.

Let's see. If the IC is off the road, then FedEx can say that the IC is actually running the business, and not Ground managers. Very convenient and legally expedient. That also means that the IC has to hire an additional driver if the IC is currently driving. Perhaps some IC's aren't going to want to do that just so it will appear that they(the IC's) are actually running the show. I strongly suspect that when FedEx says "jump", most IC's are going to ask "how high?" Also, if Ground management pressures the IC to substantially raise productivity, appearance standards, accident levels, or whatever else they might choose, who is actually calling the shots? I'd say it's FedEx Ground, and if the contractor doesn't apply the strict standards of the corporation to the non-employees, he gets the Golden Handshake. Again, the IC seems to be there only as an intermediary that makes the model work from a legal standpoint. FedEx runs Ground, not the IC's.

 

[bbsam]

So the ISP becomes the intermediary between the company and the driver. I've never said this was the company's dream outcome and yes it is being done to comply with legal challenges. So what? Fact is, I think the company should hold us to high standards as I think you agree. Unless it is your hope that Ground fails miserably and goes away. I think this model represents where the entire company is heading down the road but that will only happen if we hold ourselves to achieving higher standards than we've obtained in the past, no matter what it takes.

 

[FedExer267]

I didn't know I blew it off. You seem to suggest that these managers have no position at all. They are to be the company contact with the contractor. Why shouldn't they run the terminal? It's theirs. But if I am under contract with them and I have employees then the company really has no business contacting my employees. As far as holding a contract over a contractor's head, you really need to brush up on contract law. People around here seem to think that getting out of a contract is a simple matter. In fact, it's the very last thing the company wants to do. It is lengthy (months), expensive (legally), and tends to make bad relations with the contractor in the not so unlikely event that the contract is not terminated at the end of the process (yes, that too happens).

Bbsam you have to remember I don't work for you I work for a guy that does whatever FedEx tells us the drivers too. I can see this guy getting intimadated by them very easily and remember I have told you he tells me things he has told me they hold the contract over his head every oppotunity they get. in your own words he is a wuss.

 

[FedExer267]

So the ISP becomes the intermediary between the company and the driver. I've never said this was the company's dream outcome and yes it is being done to comply with legal challenges. So what? Fact is, I think the company should hold us to high standards as I think you agree. Unless it is your hope that Ground fails miserably and goes away. I think this model represents where the entire company is heading down the road but that will only happen if we hold ourselves to achieving higher standards than we've obtained in the past, no matter what it takes.

The problem with holding drivers to higher standards will never work when most of us work for a shotty contractor, who dosent appreciate what you do for his company on a daily basis thus the drivers dont care. Now if my IC offered paid vacations or paid holidays or even the ocasional bonus or atleast a raise every once in a blue moon he might get his drivers to care more til then we all do what we have to do there is no extra effort. When you unappreciate people for so long they get the message and get the attitude why should I care if you dont.

 

[bbsam]

The problem with holding drivers to higher standards will never work when most of us work for a shotty contractor, who dosent appreciate what you do for his company on a daily basis thus the drivers dont care. Now if my IC offered paid vacations or paid holidays or even the ocasional bonus or atleast a raise every once in a blue moon he might get his drivers to care more til then we all do what we have to do there is no extra effort. When you unappreciate people for so long they get the message and get the attitude why should I care if you dont.

Agreed. But remember, it is also the contractor being held to a higher standard. Let's hope he figures it out.

 

[Brown287]

To an outsider it sure seems that FedEx sure goes to great lengths to cover up their so called "legitimate operation". All of this never ending drama and Bbsam actually believes that Ground will never be forced into the FedEx Inc. fold. Today I was off and I was trying to kill some time so I searched FedEx Ground jobs on Craigslist.com in the San Fransisco Bay Area. The pay was 100 dollars a day, 125 for those that "really hustle". This is why FedEx Ground will continue to have the problems that it does. This on top of this issue of Contractors getting a raw deal will force drastic changes. Sorry Bbsam enjoy the perks you speak of wile you can.

 

[MrFedEx]

To an outsider it sure seems that FedEx sure goes to great lengths to cover up their so called "legitimate operation". All of this never ending drama and Bbsam actually believes that Ground will never be forced into the FedEx Inc. fold. Today I was off and I was trying to kill some time so I searched FedEx Ground jobs on Craigslist.com in the San Fransisco Bay Area. The pay was 100 dollars a day, 125 for those that "really hustle". This is why FedEx Ground will continue to have the problems that it does. This on top of this issue of Contractors getting a raw deal will force drastic changes. Sorry Bbsam enjoy the perks you speak of wile you can.

Good points. Ground may be taking all the right steps to get their act together, but until they address the pay issue, it isn't going to happen. Like bbsam said, the IC's are the "intermediary" between the driver and the company, but IMO that's a mechanism that exists to prop-up the low-cost fleet and pay structure and try to make it look legitimate. FedEx is calling the shots, and I just got wind of a new project in the works that will make Ground much more accountable on the pickup side just like Express. The more they become like Express, the more control is exerted by Ground management, not the IC. This would tend to strengthen the employer/employee argument and weaken the IC model.

 

[FedExer267]

To an outsider it sure seems that FedEx sure goes to great lengths to cover up their so called "legitimate operation". All of this never ending drama and Bbsam actually believes that Ground will never be forced into the FedEx Inc. fold. Today I was off and I was trying to kill some time so I searched FedEx Ground jobs on Craigslist.com in the San Fransisco Bay Area. The pay was 100 dollars a day, 125 for those that "really hustle". This is why FedEx Ground will continue to have the problems that it does. This on top of this issue of Contractors getting a raw deal will force drastic changes. Sorry Bbsam enjoy the perks you speak of wile you can.

This is exactly why most drivers are on government assistance. 500 bucks a week 50 to 70 hours a week woo hoo 10 bucks a hour if you work 50 hours and FedEx wants quality drivers no wonder turn around is so high. I guess until there are some sort of guidlines for Contractors to pay drivers we will continue to live off the tax payers.

 

[FedExer267]

Good points. Ground may be taking all the right steps to get their act together, but until they address the pay issue, it isn't going to happen. Like bbsam said, the IC's are the "intermediary" between the driver and the company, but IMO that's a mechanism that exists to prop-up the low-cost fleet and pay structure and try to make it look legitimate. FedEx is calling the shots, and I just got wind of a new project in the works that will make Ground much more accountable on the pickup side just like Express. The more they become like Express, the more control is exerted by Ground management, not the IC. This would tend to strengthen the employer/employee argument and weaken the IC model.

I sure would like to know what you know MFE.. If they want to hold us accountable to anything they better start showing us the money. Til then I will get there when I get there and somedays depending on load might even not make it there. I guess our IC will be driving around doing these pickups. Especially when they give us a pick up window 3 hours after I am out of that zip code.

 

[Brown287]

I see a Ground driver on my route and he seems like a nice guy, but there are days when hes completely done with his route at 1pm. Keep in mind hes 1 of 2 Ground routes in a town that has 12 UPS routes 4 Express routes and 1 H.D. route, how does the contractor make any money at this? At UPS we will consolidate routes to better position them as far as profit is concerned and I know that there are days that Express will run one less route to better their profit, but this route has got to be killing the contractor on some days. Thats just it though FedEx does not have to share in the pain because they pay on the piece and the stop. I just don't understand why anyone would get into this deal with FedEx. Well what ever cheap rates or not UPS has retained and won back accounts on the service alone, so keep on keeping on FedEx Ground.

 

[FedExer267]

Well Brown for 10 bucks a hour would you go above and beyond thats why we all say we are here now what ya got. Until we get treated better and actually get a fair wage I see you getting alot of business back. Its not worth are personal time to sit around and waut all day for a couple of boxes and remember Ground runs under the 70 hour DOT rule not the 60 why is that oh yes its because they dont pay us however they made the rule nice huh.

 

[MrFedEx]

I sure would like to know what you know MFE.. If they want to hold us accountable to anything they better start showing us the money. Til then I will get there when I get there and somedays depending on load might even not make it there. I guess our IC will be driving around doing these pickups. Especially when they give us a pick up window 3 hours after I am out of that zip code.

CPC (Customer Pickup Coordination). Look for it soon. More like Express every day, and perhaps intended to eventually replace some Express functions.

 

[FedExer267]

Well I say good luck with that!!! Good luck trying to get Ground drivers to work as efficent as Express drivers we dont get paid by the hour so we will continue to do are jobs the way we do them after we dont answer to FedEx even though they try and get us to. If they want to treat us like employees I better see a hourly wage and OT til then they can pound sand.

 

[FedExer267]

CPC (Customer Pickup Coordination). Look for it soon. More like Express every day, and perhaps intended to eventually replace some Express functions.

Thanks for the heads up MFE

 

[Brown287]

I agree with you guys, you get what you pay for. Ten bucks an hour does'nt buy a lot of loyalty so it is clear as day to me. More importantly customers are up to speed with whats going on and thats really whats important.

 

[FedExer267]

I agree with you guys, you get what you pay for. Ten bucks an hour does'nt buy a lot of loyalty so it is clear as day to me. More importantly customers are up to speed with whats going on and thats really whats important.

Ya especially when customers want later pick ups most Ground drivers tell them to use you guys. Its either that are you need to be ready around the time I am here everyday.

 

[bbsam]

CPC (Customer Pickup Coordination). Look for it soon. More like Express every day, and perhaps intended to eventually replace some Express functions.

We just got it last week.

 

[MrFedEx]

We just got it last week.

I hear that it mimics the Express pickup system. I wonder if this is another step toward eventually doing the product shift?