Just wait, Dave. You don't have a clue.
Orion warning letters
- Thread starter Tough Guy
- Start date
Just wait, Dave. You don't have a clue.
BigUnionGuy
Got the T-Shirt
If the company would try that, and say they can discipline for it....
The issue would (then) be subject to collective bargaining with the Union.
The first chance they will get, would be in the next contract negotiations.
-Bug-
Mugarolla
Light 'em up!
No sir, you are incorrect.
1. This may not necessarily be a significant change in the work for an employee to even invoke Article 6 Section 4 of the National Master. It is just telling an employee in what order to deliver. They still have roughly the same stops and such. They do the same work that they did. I know. it takes longer.
UPS can make new rules and we have to abide by them as long as they do not violate the contract. Every rule or policy that they put in place does not have to be negotiated.
I agree that it will be very hard to enforce a set percentage of ORION though.
2. If the change is significant in the work for an employee, they do not have to wait until the next contract negotiations. Article 6 Section 4 of the National Master covers this and is very clear.
BigUnionGuy
Got the T-Shirt
10 point
Well-Known Member
I don't know about other facilities but in ours, during the implementation of the PAS system, drivers were "mandated" to drive the route using the manifest order in edd at 85%. Some did. And what a mess that precipitated in the terms of excess miles, missed deliveries, and 9.5's.
The threats of discipline for not attaining a consistent mandated percentage quickly evaporated with the absolute cluster the "system" created.
Taking two routes out of a 33 route building took more intelligence than what they presumed and when ssi accounts protested to the division level bosses it poured plenty of water on the agenda of the PAS masterminds.
We never got to see what they'd do if we didn't make their percentages work.
It'll probably be the same way again...after we honk off customers again.
All the public knows is that we don't make left hand turns. All the workers feel is that we'd wish they'd just leave us alone and let us service our great customer base.
The threats of discipline for not attaining a consistent mandated percentage quickly evaporated with the absolute cluster the "system" created.
Taking two routes out of a 33 route building took more intelligence than what they presumed and when ssi accounts protested to the division level bosses it poured plenty of water on the agenda of the PAS masterminds.
We never got to see what they'd do if we didn't make their percentages work.
It'll probably be the same way again...after we honk off customers again.
All the public knows is that we don't make left hand turns. All the workers feel is that we'd wish they'd just leave us alone and let us service our great customer base.
Mugarolla
Light 'em up!
Not really.
UPS can implement an 85% ORION compliance policy. It is not a contractual violation. Policy is now in place.
The problem arises trying to enforce the policy. How do you know what percentage of ORION you are running? There lies the problem.
If UPS puts a running cummulative percentage of ORION on the DIADS, and they tell you to maintain 85% and you aren`t even close to 85% without a good reason like breaking off so as to not have missed business, they can then enforce failure to follow.
Telling UPS that you did not follow ORION because it was not the "sensible" way to run the route, could get you a warning letter and start progressive discipline.
UPS could tell you to run ORION and only break off to avoid any service failures and then go right back to ORION so as to maintain at least an 85% compliance.
You have to work as directed and there is no contractual violation.
Your only option is to get on the 9.5 list, because you will be working long hours.
10 point
Well-Known Member
I said that same thing last week. We didn't get hired for our math skills.
Get us equipment that tallies percentage of route trace run and they'll have a leg to stand on...
unless the company wants to give each driver a notebook with a calculater to keep track of the breaks in trace. We'll have to code in time for that daily and I can say that the OMS should be able to send out percentage messages to each driver. If the company doesn't have a running tally in house no one does.
Mugarolla
Light 'em up!
I should have given you credit for the running total. I had the same thought at the time but you did say it last week.
The second option I listed, though, does not need a running total and can be implemented right now. Run ORION at 100% except to avoid missed deliveries or to get rid of bulk. This will most likely keep most routes at or above their 85% compliance.
Deliver that bulk stop, but then get right back to ORION. Deliver that business saver and get right back to ORION. I know it will not work on every route, but most routes it would. Yes, I know, it adds time to your route. That is not our decision to make if UPS pushes ORION at all costs. Get on the 9.5 list.
Not doing it this way will open yourself up to discipline for failing to work as instructed. This does not have to be negotiated in the contract and you can be disciplined for not doing it, if UPS starts seriously pushing it instead of just "asking" drivers to maintain 85%
BigUnionGuy
Got the T-Shirt
That's what I was trying to illustrate.
The company still can't discipline, without collectively bargaining over the issue.
Some Locals might be letting that happen.
Case in point;
When EDD was implemented, how many members do you know....
Were disciplined or terminated for not constantly hitting 85% ?
None that I know of.
I have never seen a Driver, even get a warning letter.
Orion is just a fad, that will pass.
Like they all do....
-Bug-
Mugarolla
Light 'em up!
I agree on EDD. The company found out that it caused more problems, missed deliveries, missed pickups, etc, than it was worth. They stopped pushing the 85% pretty quickly.
With ORION, it might not happen that quickly. They know it is failing right now, but they are still implementing it into all the centers.
This one is here to stay.
The union does not recognize their numbers for performance, but the union cannot do anything about UPS implementing a set percentage of ORION, if and when a system becomes available to track a cumulative percentage.
Saying a driver did not meet his SPORH number if far different than saying a driver broke trace when he did not have to.
Performance is subjective. Breaking trace is objective.
Mugarolla
Light 'em up!
There was never a policy about 3 write ups and then a warning letter. It just depended on the management team whether they went straight to a warning letter or just gave verbals.
A warning letter, in and of itself, means nothing. If the issue is corrected or the behavior does not happen again, the warning letter was just a piece of paper.
But you have to remember that a warning letter is the start of progressive discipline. A warning letter "could" lead to a discharge if the issues are not corrected.
BigUnionGuy
Got the T-Shirt
Reading posts from other members (that are on Orion)....
It sounds the same.
The company will "step over a dollar, to pick up a dime".
It always has been.
"I am doing the best I can, in the safest manner possible".
"Here are the keys.... Please demonstrate" (and not for 5 minutes)
-Bug-
Mugarolla
Light 'em up!
It basically is but UPS is not backing off this one anytime soon.
Yes they will.
Mugarolla
Light 'em up!
This works for production, but will not work as an excuse to break trace from ORION. Unless you break trace so as not to cross a busy street.
Exceptions are going to happen, but you will be playing with your job if you keep breaking trace for no reason except that ORION does not make sense.
BigUnionGuy
Got the T-Shirt
Are you just a straight-up management person ?
Wait.... I bet you "chair" the Safety committee.
I like to give people, the benefit of the doubt.
What Local ?
-Bug-
BigUnionGuy
Got the T-Shirt
Mugarolla
Light 'em up!
No sir.
I just tell people straight-up. Always have and always will. I try to keep people out of trouble. I try and give them the facts without sugar coating it.
It is easier to keep them out of trouble than it is defending them once they get into trouble.
If UPS tells you to follow ORION at 100% you have no choice but to follow ORION at 100% or risk disciplinary action. No ands, ifs or buts.
Never believed in the safety committee. It would be a good concept if UPS actually cared about safety. It is there for one reason and one reason alone. To keep OSHA off their backs.
They may get minor stuff done as a "show" of concern from UPS, but try and get something done that actually costs money. Good luck.
So do I
UPS would love to know.
Mugarolla
Light 'em up!
Just because I tell people that they can be disciplined for failing to follow management instructions you are questioning my loyalty?
You have some nerve. Reread my posts. The only thing I have told people is that you can be disciplined for this or that, so don't do it and work as instructed. Grieve it later if you think you have an issue.
I have not told them that it is OK, they cannot be disciplined for this, because it has to be negotiated in the contract first and that cannot happen for at least 3 more years.
Who told them this?
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