PRAYING FOR A STRIKE IN AUGUST !!!

[brownIEman]

So your number (70%) is 14 mil, right? 14 mil will be absorbed by all other carriers. 6 mil and all the over 70s will go undelivered / unshipped?

The strike and IE decisions are the only reasons why amazon didn’t go 100% UPS on non book items from the beginning.

Admittedly speculation on the numbers. I mostly think it will be significantly more percentage wise than in 97. Not a reason not to strike, just something to keep in mind.

I disagree on your second paragraph. Do you have anything to back it up your speculation on Amazon's motivations?

 

[brownIEman]

Whew..... sounds like UPS better be generous with this new contract...

Agreed.

If they do, will you recognize it or are you in the vote no, no matter what camp?

 

[Frankie's Friend]

So your management was being nice to you, trying to build you up. Nice. You should hear things I was called by Managers and Division Managers. I have often said the secret to surviving management at UPS is to be able to be called a complete POS to your face and not take it personally.

I would love to see you get language that would get that culture changed. Here's the rub - the only way I can see that changing is if you get language with real teeth to squash that kind of harassment. The only way to make that work is to get the Union to agree to some production standard (not the current ones, they would have to work together to come up with reasonable ones) so the company would have the ability to hold drivers to some standard. So far, the union has successfully fought off ANY production accountability, so drivers who decide to sandbag and basically steal time from the company cannot be held accountable. You see posts on these boards all the time from drivers that do it and suggest it to others. The only recourse readily available to most front line management is harassment, and most peoples' wish to avoid it, to "stay below the radar" as it were. I agree the situation sucks, but that is what it is.

Question #1. Why did you take that verbal abuse knowing it was/is creating a hostile work environment (against company policy) .

Question #2. How many drivers (% wise) do you "think" or guess are stealing time on a daily basis?

Please dont tell me it's a lot. Besides, the production numbers are trumped up and you know it.

 

[tourists24]

Agreed.

If they do, will you recognize it or are you in the vote no, no matter what camp?

depends on what it says..... with the profits UPS makes though,,,, it better be generous

 

[1989]

Admittedly speculation on the numbers. I mostly think it will be significantly more percentage wise than in 97. Not a reason not to strike, just something to keep in mind.

I disagree on your second paragraph. Do you have anything to back it up your speculation on Amazon's motivations?

Of course, the numbers are just a guess.

Because of the strike Jeff didn’t want to put his whole business with ups. Right around 2000 when they moved to the warehouse on S Dawson, they could not get a feeder. No I don’t have written transcripts of conversations or the unsold sales leads with the reasons they went unsold.

 

[tourists24]

So far, the union has successfully fought off ANY production accountability, so drivers who decide to sandbag and basically steal time from the company cannot be held accountable. You see posts on these boards all the time from drivers that do it and suggest it to others. The only recourse readily available to most front line management is harassment, and most peoples' wish to avoid it, to "stay below the radar" as it were. I agree the situation sucks, but that is what it is.

How does a driver "sandbag" or steal time that can't be proven as a dishonest act? Because this is what would have to be included. Problem is,,, anything at all that causes overallowed is viewed as stealing time at some level

 

[brownIEman]

Question #1. Why did you take that verbal abuse knowing it was/is creating a hostile work environment (against company policy) .

Question #2. How many drivers (% wise) do you "think" or guess are stealing time on a daily basis?

Please dont tell me it's a lot. Besides, the production numbers are trumped up and you know it.

Answer to number 1 - because it's a tough business and I'm not a pusilanimous snowflake. I mostly laughed about it.

Answer to number 2- good question. How many drivers posting on this forum have either indicated that they have sandbagged or encouraged others to do so?

 

[1989]

How does a driver "sandbag" or steal time that can't be proven as a dishonest act? Because this is what would have to be included. Problem is,,, anything at all that causes overallowed is viewed as stealing time at some level

I can easily tell if a driver is stealing time after I do the route once. You don’t know the drivers that don’t try in your center?

 

[Frankie's Friend]

Answer to number 1 - because it's a tough business and I'm not a pusilanimous snowflake. I mostly laughed about it.

Answer to number 2- good question. How many drivers posting on this forum have either indicated that they have sandbagged or encouraged others to do so?

Response to #1. Bahahaha!
Now I laugh.
Whatever.
Lawsuits are made from "tough business talk" dude.

Response to #2. Very few in percentage compared to the 110,000 on the street.
Broaden your vision.
This is Brown Cafe.

 

[tourists24]

I can easily tell if a driver is stealing time after I do the route once. You don’t know the drivers that don’t try in your center?

Oh really? What are they doing to “steal time”? And if they’re stealing they need to be fired

 

[brownIEman]

How does a driver "sandbag" or steal time that can't be proven as a dishonest act? Because this is what would have to be included. Problem is,,, anything at all that causes overallowed is viewed as stealing time at some level

Simple. If a driver slows down on purpose spread out over the whole day, he's stealing time but there's no obvious trail to prove dishonesty.

Real scenario - center is getting crushed and short on drivers. Route 07A is crushed 3 days, like everybody else. Driver 07A driver is pissed. Come Friday he has a request 8. Is given about 70 fewer stops and 100 fewer pieces. Plans out to a 6.5 hour day, but this is not the best driver and the allowances are BS, and worse on this route. His sporh drops about 5 and he comes in well over 8 so he can grieve. Telematics shows he moved steadily, just way slower than he did when his car was blown out. And slower than he and I know he's capable of, but of course no steward or BA is going to acknowledge that. You should try it sometime. Just abandon any self respect you might have.

 

[1989]

Oh really? What are they doing to “steal time”? And if they’re stealing they need to be fired

I should not be able to do the route in 9 hours. And have to continuously help you with 20 stops to keep you under 9.5.
I never said to fire anyone, all I said was try.

 

[tourists24]

Simple. If a driver slows down on purpose spread out over the whole day, he's stealing time but there's no obvious trail to prove dishonesty.

Real scenario - center is getting crushed and short on drivers. Route 07A is crushed 3 days, like everybody else. Driver 07A driver is . Come Friday he has a request 8. Is given about 70 fewer stops and 100 fewer pieces. Plans out to a 6.5 hour day, but this is not the best driver and the allowances are BS, and worse on this route. His sporh drops about 5 and he comes in well over 8 so he can grieve. Telematics shows he moved steadily, just way slower than he did when his car was blown out. And slower than he and I know he's capable of, but of course no steward or BA is going to acknowledge that. You should try it sometime. Just abandon any self respect you might have.

Sounds like a lot of speculation on your part. Funny how your story says that a driver puts in an 8 hr request and purposely stays out late. Almost every single driver I know that puts in an 8 hour request on a Friday actually wants to get done early

 

[brownIEman]

Sounds like a lot of speculation on your part. Funny how your story says that a driver puts in an 8 hr request and purposely stays out late. Almost every single driver I know that puts in an 8 hour request on a Friday actually wants to get done early

This guy was a piece of work. I was also very surprised he cut his nose to spite his face as it were, but that's what he did. There was very little speculation about it. Half the covers in the center could have had that route back in under 7, easy. He was the bid driver.

 

[Frankie's Friend]

This guy was a piece of work. I was also very surprised he cut his nose to spite his face as it were, but that's what he did. There was very little speculation about it. Half the covers in the center could have had that route back in under 7, easy. He was the bid driver.

Ever think that the dude was tired after getting screwed all week?

Nah, hes just a pow as you say.

 

[Frankie's Friend]

Btw @brownIEman , why dont you staff the operation?
I know that you have lots of excuses like the rest of the understaffed operations.

 

[brownIEman]

Ever think that the dude was tired after getting screwed all week?

Nah, hes just a pow as you say.

No, that's not what happened. The whole center was getting crushed. Everyone was tired. I was tired, I was taking routes out. No one else was dragging on Friday. The guy was sandbagging because he was ticked.

I love how quick everyone is to make excuses for hourlies sandbagging. I really don't get that. I've had conversations with folks on this board telling me stupid crap their management did to them and in most cases you'll find I commiserated and agreed it sucks when you report to weak a-hole management, cause I know they're out there. It is just odd to me how many mindlessly pro union folks there are on this forum who have convinced themselves no hourly person ever has, ever would or ever could be an a-hole.

 

[brownIEman]

Btw @brownIEman , why dont you staff the operation?
I know that you have lots of excuses like the rest of the understaffed operations.

We did. We hired a crap load of drivers. That whole summer was spent
training new drivers for the center. By the end of summer we were laying off drivers. Till October anyway.

Were we behind the curve? Yep. We friend-d up and had to play catch up. This is going to come as a shock, seeing as you hold management in such obviously high regard, but guess what? None of us that I ever met were omniscient.

 

[Frankie's Friend]

No, that's not what happened. The whole center was getting crushed. Everyone was tired. I was tired, I was taking routes out. No one else was dragging on Friday. The guy was sandbagging because he was ticked.

I love how quick everyone is to make excuses for hourlies sandbagging. I really don't get that. I've had conversations with folks on this board telling me stupid crap their management did to them and in most cases you'll find I commiserated and agreed it sucks when you report to weak a-hole management, cause I know they're out there. It is just odd to me how many mindlessly pro union folks there are on this forum who have convinced themselves no hourly person ever has, ever would or ever could be an a-hole.

Uh, we get tired after a week of stupid dispatch.
Everyone's different in longevity.

 

[Frankie's Friend]

We did. We hired a crap load of drivers. That whole summer was spent
training new drivers for the center. By the end of summer we were laying off drivers. Till October anyway.

Were we behind the curve? Yep. We friend-d up and had to play catch up. This is going to come as a shock, seeing as you hold management in such obviously high regard, but guess what? None of us that I ever met were omniscient.

I like honesty so thanks for being honest.
For the record, not one of our stewards supports dishonesty and blanket unionism when it comes down to stealing time.

I will tell you the drivers are as concerned of getting a steward "talk with" (because that kind of work ethic brings a mistrust factor onto all of the drivers if allowed to continue) as they are a management "talk with".

We dont support dishonesty in any fashion in our building. We hold ourselves accountable so that the company wont have to.
End of story.