Questioning Authority: The New Labor Movement

Discussion in 'UPS Union Issues' started by TheVoice, Nov 7, 2007.

  1. TheVoice

    TheVoice United Prole. Socialist

    A topic as real as the times.
    As real as the state of affairs,
    the state of our state of un-grace.

    There is little doubt that we are at a bypass in the organized labor movement.
    A digression from the ways of old, a bridge between the gaps of the methods of the past, and the methods of the future. Some might even argue that we are on a pathway that is going to go full circle. A revolt leading to a revolution, a calm before a storm.

    This is evident, not only, in the questioning of the bourgeoisie corporations, but in the very questioning of our own proletarian representatives, the unions. This is not a questioning that implies that organized labor is not needed, it is an inquisition that implies that, perhaps what is needed, is not being addressed.

    There are many reasons for which this can be so, but none more prevalent than the question of corruption, or ulterior motive(s). The formula of old cannot be applied to remedy a situation that has changed beyond the reach of its rules of engagement. Therefore, the rules of engagement must be changed. They must evolve.

    More and more, there is being illuminated, a class within a class system. A separation, within the unions, between those that have, and those that have-not. This is being widened at alarming rates. A fracture from which no good, no solidarity can come. In short, those at the top of the structure, give the appearance they are fleeing a sinking ship in life-boats, while the rest of us are left on board polishing the brass, if it were.

    All of this can be clearly seen in our current situation here at UPS/Teamsters. The very fact that there is the number of people that are discontent with the current “tentative” contract, despite our International leaders, local leaders telling us to vote yes, is evident that there in lies a silent majority that, evidently does not do surveys, and does not blindly fall into line, does not conform to a structure that is obviously not sound.

    The real question is, who if anyone will learn from this? And does anyone care?

    (Yes, I realize that this soliloquy is a bit inflated, I cant help it, when I write topics, I do so in word document, which I then cut and paste, and it doesn’t come out unless I present it in essay form…so for Tie, and Sat, and you guys that hate me for writing like this, I apologize ahead of time, I really do talk normal...whatever that is, But aside from the normal I hate you for sounding like a nerd, I would also be intrested in hearing what the management people think about this topic)
  2. tieguy

    tieguy Banned

    Its an interesting question and one thats very relevant. If the teamsters do not deliver the vote for this offer then how does the company negotiate with union leadership that does not have its members support.

    Its interesting to see members who preach soladarity pushing other members for a no vote. If you truly support the concept of a united union vote then you vote yes on an offer that your leadership agrees to.

    You can't push soladarity from the grass roots. It has to come from the leadership and the members have to see the wisdom behind following a united front.

    So I think you have hit on a very relevant point and one that probably threatens the unions existence. Once they stop delivering the vote then they lose all credibility as a bargaining agent.

    If I am some other employer that has to negotiate with the teamsters I will be watching this one very closely. Master frieght up for renewal soon?
  3. TheVoice

    TheVoice United Prole. Socialist

    I think I understand what your saying. Only I have a different interpretation of solidarity. Solidarity does not always have to imply a collective vote in the same direction. There can be solidarity within the structure of the union itself, with a divided vote, provided that the losing party accepts the majority’s decision.

    Solidarity doesn’t always have to mean we all agree with everything. For me, it means the support of the system, not necessarily the current governing body of that system…much like (and I realize I have used this analogy before) we might have solidarity as Americans, but don’t always support the same political parties, or current decisions made by those political parities. But we still support democracy; we still show our solidarity in that belief system.

    I think you understand, that it is a very hard position for a person to be in; a structure that one believes in, but does not believe in the way that system is being run, or represented.

    Naturally, there would be people with ulterior motives/priorities, waiting in the wings for any sign of fracturing within that system. But as long as there is labor, there will always be “organized labor,” we are just at a time of reconstruction…which perhaps, as I am sure you would agree, comes by way of destruction first…as bleak as that sounds. I don’t believe that is happening all at once, but it is gradually happening.

    Anyway, thanks for participating Tie. I respect your input.
  4. 705red

    705red Browncafe Steward

    Tie do you agree with everything that ups asks of you to do?
  5. brownmonster

    brownmonster Man of Great Wisdom

    Too many feel the leadership is fighting for itself rather than those it represents.
  6. FIST

    FIST Leanitus

    great post
  7. BrownShark2

    BrownShark2 Guest


    You are issing a big part of Unionism. Unlike you management types, you work for the company and do what you are told without the benefit of being able to think outside the box and make a decision solely yours with respect to the operation. You are given your dispatch, you are given your set of hours to work with, you are given your directives for the operation and you must follow them to the letter no matter how negatively it affects the business, even though you may know better. Managers everyday compalin that the "thinking" part of the job has been taken away and "sheeplike" is whats expected by UPS.

    This is the dynamic of employer and employee.

    The Union and its various administrations from the local leadership to our General President work for US. WE ARE THE EMPLOYER.

    They answer to US, they do what WE tell them to do, WE decide what is in our best interests, WE send them to so do a job with instructions that WE expect them to carry out to the letter. WE have never sent them there to do what was in "THEIR" best interests.

    When "THEY" go outside the scope of whats in "OUR" best interests, then they will face the scrutiny of the member employers. "THEY" can be replaced, as you can if you go outside the parameters of your daily instruction.

    The local leadership of all the locals involved, including the General President is well aware that this contract in its current form, may cost them their office in the next elections.

    In my local (396) the H slate is clearly on the hot seat for its participation in this agreement and for other misdoings and failure to represent and bad judgements in striking companies that resulted in the loss of jobs of its members that it was suppose to protect.

    The UNION is the membership. Thats us. Pure and simple.

    Those dues monies "WE" pay shall used to discuss this contract with US, take our feedback and apply that feedback in a new round of negotiations.

    For me, I cannot understand how the Teamsters and its Officers layed down and did not force the company to bring its LAST, BEST & FINAL offer to the table. Instead, it appears they simply took what was on the table, kissed UPS's :censored2: on the way out and brought it to us with the fresh smell of :censored2: all over it.

    The topic of this thread is Questioning Authority, I think I have.

  8. diesel96

    diesel96 New Member

  9. tieguy

    tieguy Banned

    all of that sounds wonderfull. The reality of having a union though is that it is not as powerfull and not as effective if the union does not unite.
  10. If I had to hazard a guess, I think most of these posts were generated from 55 Glenlake Pkwy.
  11. BrownShark2

    BrownShark2 Guest

  12. satellitedriver

    satellitedriver Moderator Staff Member

    I never have stated, or implied, that I hate the way you write.
    I only wish it was condensed.
    Write as you wish.
    No hard feelings,as you say.
  13. satellitedriver

    satellitedriver Moderator Staff Member

    The Borg has spoken.
  14. Braveheart

    Braveheart New Member

    So if the leadership of America says we are going to war Sunday with both Iran and North Korea at the same time should the rest of congress just fall in line and show solidarity? Or when the people see that something is wrong maybe blindly drinking the Koolaid does not look so smart, unless of course its grape, then make it a double!
  15. tieguy

    tieguy Banned

    naa most of these posts here are definitely from teamsters outside of glenlake.:wink:
  16. tieguy

    tieguy Banned

    Hey don't get me wrong I think its great you guys have all this infighting after all I'm management. :cool: I'm just trying to figure out how you guys define and apply the concept of soladarity?
  17. sawdusttv

    sawdusttv Active Member

    We do have soladarity, 2/3rds of us mistrust the union and all of us mistrust management!!!!:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:
  18. diesel96

    diesel96 New Member

  19. BrownShark2

    BrownShark2 Guest

  20. 705red

    705red Browncafe Steward

    Just a little food for thought tie. We might be bickering over this contract and debating the issues right now because it is very important to us, but if you think in anyways that means we would not get together and file a grievance on you for doing our work right now, you are mistaken. It seems like your out take on this is that we are fighting and destroying our union. As a matter of fact we are satnding up in an attempt to better our union for the long haul, so go ahead andshift in the yard, if you dont believe that we wil file that grievance and nail your feeder management butt to the cross for it, keep taking this as a sign of weakness on our part and see what the furture holds.