red circled employee

Discussion in 'UPS Discussions' started by paycut, Jun 6, 2007.

  1. paycut

    paycut New Member

    Does red circled emloyee mean never losing the wage progresssion, ever. Contract language states part timers will not suffer a loss of pay due to going full time. I am red circled under 1979 to 1982 contract, went driving for 9 years, was making top scale, took art. 22.3 job took a 6 dollar an hour paycut. Has anybody fought this? And why not. It would be worth fighting for. P.S.... broke down body forced me off my package car.
  2. 705red

    705red Browncafe Steward

    Red circled means your pay/job was quaranteed as long as you were doing it. Now since you went package you lost that red circled tag, and were making more cash most likely. Now if you would have went straight to combo you should have kept your red circled pay rate. Hope this helps, this is how its been done under my contract, im sure it could be different were you are at!
  3. rocket88

    rocket88 Member

    Here in North Ohio if he were to bid a Air job combo then he would receive the red circle rate while working in the building and then the air rate while he was out delivering E.A.M.'s and NDA's.
    Not really sure how it works with a 22.3 combo job but I have been told it also would be at the red circle rate. Which is why a few of our older PKG. car guys ( who were red circled part timers) bid them.
    Check with your steward and B.A.
  4. JonFrum

    JonFrum Guest


    Had you gone from part-time directly to an Article 22.3 job, you would not have taken a paycut for your *inside* work, (either as a pure insider, or as a combo inside/air driver.) You would have taken a pay cut if you took an Article 22.3 air driving job, (either pure air driving, or combo air driving/inside.) You would not have taken a pay cut during the inside portion of your combo air driving/inside Article 22.3 job.

    But it sounds like you went package car driving for nine years, and only then took an Article 22.3 job. Thus, you were no longer a part-timer and so the red circle feature protecting you from a paycut no longer applied to you. These Article 22.3 jobs are created by *destroying* two existing part-time jobs and redefining the work as full-time. These jobs were never intended for full-timers. They were intended for the part-timers who "paid" for them by allowing their part-time jobs to be destroyed in the process. Sorry, but that's the truth, that's what we voted on.

    If you're a pure air driver now, you take the cut in pay. If you are a combo air/inside then you get paid as if you were a part-timer with company seniority going back to your original part-time seniority date for your inside portion of your day. And you take the pay cut for the air portion of your day.

    You could argue that your red circle status stays with you forever, but you would have to find evidence that the contract negotiators intended that during negotiations. I'll bet they never imagined it. They didn't seem to think of very much when it comes to the details of the whole Article 22.3 situation. It's been a mess.
  5. paycut

    paycut New Member

    Are you saying older red circled (1979-1982 contract) drivers got their wage as a art. 22-3 which would be 27 dollars and some change?
  6. 705red

    705red Browncafe Steward

    No we are saying if you went from a red circled job directly to 22.3 you would have kept your red circled rate. Since you went package then combo you drop down to 22.3 pay as any other driver would.
  7. Expendable

    Expendable Just a big Brown skidmark

    When UPS sought the two-tier concessions in '82, no one voted to cut their own pay then, or in the future. Assurances were given, as reflected in the higher pay in classifications for employees hired before the '82 contract(red-circle pay). It certainly was not contemplated then that there was any threat to full-timers of an attack on their seniority from the new tier. Higher seniority trumps lower seniority, and full time seniority trumps part time seniority. How does it make sense any other way?
    How does it make sense that a part-timer of five years, has a right to a new job before a full-timer of twenty-five? Why would UPS pay top pay one time, then when you move to a higher classification and then back again, to the same work, get to pay you less than before? Didn't you gain experience, knowledge, maturity, and seniority. Where does that idea come from?
    You get the argument that art. 22 is just for part-timers. Only if you don't read it right, and you don't care if you distort seniority (which will destroy the union).
  8. Expendable

    Expendable Just a big Brown skidmark

    No part-timer "paid" for a combo job. Article 22 was to change the company practice of using part time employees when they could use full timers. That creates more full-time positions, which are more lucrative jobs. Part-timers are not excluded when a package driver with more seniority takes a combo, he also opens a full-time job! Get the driving job and wait your turn. Why should a worker who never takes a full-time job for years get the inside track on a combo before another with more seniority, just because the other worker was a driver? Are they just somehow special?
  9. HazMatMan

    HazMatMan New Member

    If you worked in my building, you could become a return clerk or porter or car washer and keep your pay rate. apparently the contract varies from state to state because I still don't understand how a full time driver could take a 22.3 job when these 22.3 jobs were created for part-timers to go full-time..
  10. Expendable

    Expendable Just a big Brown skidmark

    The mess that is the Article 22 interpretation comes from the advantage it gives the company. Why do you think they want to treat article 22 as a classification, even when there are four classifications listed in black and white? Who gains? How else can they back out of the basic promise that the '82 contract wouldn't affect the workers voting for it? Confuse the issue and pit one group against another! And the self-serving part-timers who want what they want even if they have to trash seniority to get it help to perpetuate the confusion. The reason you supposedly lose your red-circle pay if you didn't stay a part-timer is that UPS has no honor. They are oppressing the people in their wages by exploiting the weak and gullible!
  11. Expendable

    Expendable Just a big Brown skidmark

    Why doesn't work for half of your day in a higher classification entitle you to be paid at that rate for the whole day? It should! What about combos with premium skill jobs that would pay more full-time, but since they're combos, somehow they no longer deserve the pay differential? What about the distortions that exist with the interpretation that you can lose your red-circle? A non-red-circle part-timer who goes driving and gets back in part-time work by whatever means, can end up making more money in his combo than a red-circle driver with more seniority going combo? These are the kind of things that prove we're too stupid to see the truth! UPS is constantly whittling away at every hard won principle we have fought for over the years. They think and plan and scheme of ways to beat us at every turn, even if it means planning to cover a mile by moving an inch a year. So we had better learn to protect each other, not just ourselves!