Somali pirates

[moreluck]

Hey, the pickpockets on the streets of Carracas are highly trained school- aged kids, but they are all still criminals. I think they know right from wrong. I think they choose to do wrong.

The soft side of me thinks maybe having no food at home might be affecting their choices.

I don't know how to sort through the criminals and their situations. It comes down to , break the law, you pay the price.

 

[soberups]

What needs to happen is to revive the "Q" ships of WW1 and early WW2....they were disguised as unarmed merchant ships, but when a submarine surfaced to attack they could drop their fake bulkheads down to reveal numerous guns emplacements. If we had few of these ships patrolling the area as "bait" we could start thinning the pirates down.

 

[Cochise]

Agreed.

Too bad Clinton did not do that when we had Osama in sights.

Let's try again.

The best chance for the US to take out OBL was at Tora Bora, but GWB only had a 50 man force available to fight a force of over 1000 Chechen and Arab fighters, OBL's best men.

 

[Catatonic]

Originally Posted by Hoaxster
Agreed.

Too bad Clinton did not do that when we had Osama in sights.

Let's try again.

The best chance for the US to take out OBL was at Tora Bora, but GWB only had a 50 man force available to fight a force of over 1000 Chechen and Arab fighters, OBL's best men.

Too bad in both cases.

I guess I was thinking more in terms of Sept 11th never happening.

 

[The Other Side]

Why pick up any newspaper ( if they still make them ) and read what the families of some teenager who was killed said; he was just starting to turn his life around, or he planned on going back to school ( as soon as he got out of prison ), he wasn't harming anybody , he was a good kid, he lived for his kids, etc.

No, i asked you to demonstrate what you posted. This secondary claim is more rediculous than your first.

Too bad political rhetoric runs your life dude.

 

[The Other Side]

What needs to happen is to revive the "Q" ships of WW1 and early WW2....they were disguised as unarmed merchant ships, but when a submarine surfaced to attack they could drop their fake bulkheads down to reveal numerous guns emplacements. If we had few of these ships patrolling the area as "bait" we could start thinning the pirates down.

Geez, why do you all live in fantasy land?? These somalia morons know the difference between cargo tankers and gunships.. geez...how stupid do you think they are?

Again, another shoot first ask questions later mentality.

There are many laws that need to be changed FIRST in order for anything to be done about this problem.

Most of which are International. Lets get over the cowboy "smoke em out" rhetoric and realize that nothing can be done until the world comes together and changes the rules.

 

[Babagounj]

OTS
Here you go.
rediculous - Google Search

 

[moreluck]

How would you make laws for a lawless nation? They say Somalia has no government.

I think the cowboy mentality would work in these cases of piracy. Arm everything that floats through there and then the pirates won't know the difference between a gun boat and a freighter.

 

[wkmac]

There are many laws that need to be changed FIRST in order for anything to be done about this problem.

Most of which are International. Lets get over the cowboy "smoke em out" rhetoric and realize that nothing can be done until the world comes together and changes the rules.

Considering that many felt Obama would fall on his face, he proved them wrong, no argument. However, I'm not sure he will or has to wait on changes in international law. President Obama can use what others have done in the past and use backdoor means to achieve an end. In the case of the Somali Pirates, he could use the connections of Eritrea to Somalian terrorist groups and then link the pirates to al-Shabaab which the US insists has al-Qaeda connections and this draws the pirates into an arena not needing changes to international law.

If Bush can make Saddam Huissein al-Qaeda, then Obama can do this with the pirates and still have lots of time in the afternoon to play with the new family dog, shoot hoops or go bowling!

 

[moreluck]

I can't give Obama an A+ in this action....he waited 3-4 days before saying OK let's do it. He gets a C- in my scorebook. Gotta act faster and be more decisive......like when he bowed in front of that robed dingbat from Arabia.

 

[Cochise]

I can't give Obama an A+ in this action....he waited 3-4 days before saying OK let's do it. He gets a C- in my scorebook. Gotta act faster and be more decisive......like when he bowed in front of that robed dingbat from Arabia.

Classic hostage strategy was used.

Get the kidnappers tired, hungry, thirsty and sloppy. Wait for them to make a mistake, gather your own resources, and act swiftly when the time is right.

If the Navy had acted on the first day, there is a good chance we we have a posthumous hero in Capt. Phillips.

Credit is due here to all involved, the CIC, the Captain of the Naval vessel, and the SEAL sharpshooters.

Thankgoodness our President is wise enough to follow the advice of experts, and people on the scene, rather than some knee-jerk reaction from an uniformed public.

If this wasn't an A+, I don't know what could be.


And for all you pirate experts, study maritime law and the history of how pirating has been successfully halted before you propose your poorly thought out schemes.

I'll give you a hint. Pirating has NEVER been halted with a naval solution. You must fight it on land.

Are you truly ready for a land war in Somalia?

 

[Cochise]

Too bad in both cases.

I guess I was thinking more in terms of Sept 11th never happening.

That would have required GWB to take his intelligence briefings seriously.

What DID he do that day? Clear brush or go bike riding?

I know he was in Waco, golfing the day after the briefing, and talking about his love of hot weather jogging. He saw no need to cut his vacation in Texas for the entire month of August short.

Yet somehow, it was Clinton's fault!

Why don't you blame Reagan for making bin Laden the power he became, in the first place, and while you're at it, blame St Ronnie for the current economic mess, too.

He is as much, or more, to blame as anyone else.

 

[UPS Lifer]

Yup, that's what Obama does best.

I could not have said it any better!

 

[Catatonic]

That would have required GWB to take his intelligence briefings seriously.

What DID he do that day? Clear brush or go bike riding?

I know he was in Waco, golfing the day after the briefing, and talking about his love of hot weather jogging. He saw no need to cut his vacation in Texas for the entire month of August short.

Yet somehow, it was Clinton's fault!

Why don't you blame Reagan for making bin Laden the power he became, in the first place, and while you're at it, blame St Ronnie for the current economic mess, too.

He is as much, or more, to blame as anyone else.

I have not seen rantings like this since passerby. Any kin?

 

[UPS Lifer]

I love to listen to these BO fanatics getting their panties all up in a bunch when anyone criticizes the "chosen one"!!!! They can dish it but they can't take it!

 

[drewed]

There has to be a way to keep this scum off ships that don't belong to them. Pull some old WWII cannons out of storage. Wrap the decks in barbed wire. We wouldn't have to man up every ship out there, but imagine what 100 armed merchant vessels could do.

Can someone explain why, in this day and age, not one sniper or one armed employee is allowed on these ginormous ships. Or at least small armed escorts in dangerous waters. What would be this cost compared
to millions in ransoms paid by shipping magnates? As the rules stand now,
how often will we be reading about more hold ups?

The fear is escalation, a lot of private firms are putting armed guards on vessel, but lets say at most 2 for a boat thats a couple hundred feet long, theyll carry M16s or some sort of small caliber MP and the pirates start off with AKs and RPGs so whats next? The pirates move up to larger weapons, strapping explosives in the boat add more boarders so the firms put more guards on.....So the proper thing to do in the situation would be let the world goverments handle this, there are dozens of ships in the western Indian ocean to deal with these problems, I am not by any means saying boardings wont happen but the gov'ts are way more equipped to handle it

 

[diesel96]

I love to listen to these BO fanatics getting their panties all up in a bunch when anyone criticizes the "chosen one"!!!! They can dish it but they can't take it!

OTS
Here you go.
rediculous - Google Search

This is exactly the responses when faced with the crippling reality of knowing ones idealogy and opionions has been crushed and mythbusted. It's like your boxing and your opponent hits you with a crushing left hook, and there's nothing left for you to do but smile to the crowd, but deep down inside your hurting like hell and your legs are wobbbly....Shake it off Lifer and BaBa...Clear the cobwebs...

 

[over9five]

The fear is escalation.....

I disagree. Like any other terrorist, the pirates are cowards who prey upon unarmed innocents. Shoot back, and they'll go away. Very hard to defend an inflatable boat from armed guards shooting down on you from the decks of a freighter.

I think our President should place small teams of soldiers on-board some American flagged ships in the area for a while. The pirates will learn to leave US ships alone after their shot up a couple of times. Just the thought that a US ship *may* have soldiers on board will be a great deterrent!

 

[wkmac]

I can't give Obama an A+ in this action....he waited 3-4 days before saying OK let's do it. He gets a C- in my scorebook. Gotta act faster and be more decisive......like when he bowed in front of that robed dingbat from Arabia.

I disagree More. Using your logic then GWB get's an friend- for his mission to get OBL as in 7 1/4 years he was unable to touch him. To some people's bottomline $$$$, I'm not sure they ever wanted to catch OBL so there you go!

The only way to scare people into church is to convince them there is a hell and devil with eternal room and board in the future. If there's no boogie man, then where's the need? If they got OBL in late 01' or early 02' then where's the fear weapon to whip the masses for Iraq in 03'?
Off the wall you say? Then why were there several instances (I've linked here on several threads, Fox News no less) of missions to get OBL called off literally as the choppers were about to depart, called off by Rumsfeld himself, if this idea is so off the wall?

So far, you could say Obama has shown more ballz as he's pulled the trigger when Rumy and GW pulled the chicken switch or were they saving the goose that laid the golden egg? I don't agree with the overall policy as it relates to what the US does in foreign matters but in the context of what America is now, Obama done good IMO.

Fear is a weapon more powerful than any gun!

BTW: Talking with Cuba and Chavez? I like it. I hope he talks with Iran too.

 

[wkmac]

I disagree. Like any other terrorist, the pirates are cowards who prey upon unarmed innocents. Shoot back, and they'll go away. Very hard to defend an inflatable boat from armed guards shooting down on you from the decks of a freighter.

I think our President should place small teams of soldiers on-board some American flagged ships in the area for a while. The pirates will learn to leave US ships alone after their shot up a couple of times. Just the thought that a US ship *may* have soldiers on board will be a great deterrent!

Over,

I read your post and I agree the pirates are cowards and basic theives and if you shoot back, they'd run for cover. The solution almost seems so simplistic.

As I read your post I just wondered if placing US military personal on board a commercial vessel would change it's status from commerical to military? I know it seems lunacy and if society always used common sense, it would be but law is a Twister Sister (to borrow the band name) and doesn't rely or use common sense anymore. I don't have the answer, just the question and that is, does military personal on board in effect change the jurisdiction? The Lusitania came to mind as I was reading and thinking about your idea.

I agree with your idea although instead of gov't troops, as others have pointed out, use mercenaries under the employ of the shipping company!