Strike Rumors

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Would you consider $80K (plus benefits) to be a living wage?

Would you consider a projected pension of $5,200/month to be a living wage?

 

[JonFrum]

If the Economy is bad, don't strike because times are bad.

If the Economy is good, don't strike because times are good.

If the Economy is average, don't strike because there's never a good time to strike.

Let's face it, some people will never vote to strike, no matter what the issues. Period.

They probably believe "No one wins in a strike." When, in fact, the Union does win, if you include all the bad language kept out of a proposed Contract, as well as any actual gains made.

Or they believe they will be fired, or replaced by "replacement workers." When, In fact, no one can be fired during a strike, unless you otherwise do something illegal.

In an Unfair Labor Practice (ULP) strike, which this situation would be, any replacement workers must be themselves fired when the strike is over, and all strikers go back to work. That fact alone usually makes it hard to even find people to hire, and then train, for such a short time.

Usually just the threat of a ULP strike is enough to tell the Company we are serious. Giving a 72-hour strike notice may well get results without a strike being necessary. UPS would not want the PR disaster that comes when workers who make $8.50 per hour (about minimum wage) and up, are striking on principle to enforce the mutually agreed-to Contract, and mutually agreed-to national panel decisions, and not for money.

I think you should strike anytime your rights are being violated in a big way, and all other avenues of redress have proven fruitless. Otherwise you're admitting the Contract is just a bunch of unenforceable suggestions, and you don't much care what the Company does to you and your fellow workers.

 

[Catatonic]

Let's face it, some people will never vote to strike, no matter what the issues. Period.

They probably believe "No one wins in a strike." When, in fact, the Union does win, if you include all the bad language kept out of a proposed Contract, as well as any actual gains made.

Jon,
Perhaps that statement would be more credible if you were able to show how the Union/Union Employees are better off after the strike of 1997.

Demonstrate how much better Union-employees are treated than before the strike.

Demonstrate how many more full-time Union employees there are than before the strike.

Demonstrate how much better it is for the part-timers than before the strike.

And then for the killer point which is what the strike was all about anyway- How much better the UPS Union employees pensions are that the Teamsters control their pensions rather than UPS.

Do that and you will win a lot of naysayers over.

 

[JonFrum]

I will never win the naysayers over.

The points you make are related to a nasty Economy and a nasty Company. The Strike wasn't intended to fix either, nor could anyone reasonably expect it to.

 

[Babagounj]

I am talking about support from those not employed by UPS.

FedEx Plans 1,700 Layoffs

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[unionslug]

I totally agree with upstate on this one (SHOCK!!)

Unions have lost their purpose IMO.......

I hope you mean this in the sense that you dont believe that unions are in it for the working man anymore and not that unions are no longer needed. Just imagine being at UPS right now with no contract whatsoever. If your good with that thought then ok, but I for one am not

 

[UPSGUY72]

thats great for you and your children,im sure you and they deserve it.im sure you seen your life improve with every new contract,i know i have.you should make more than just a living wage,because ups can afford to pay it to you.

What do you consider a living wage ???? $40 hr, $50 hr, $100 hr, ETC. In order for you to say we should make more than you need to put a number on it? Your reasoning that we should make more money becasue UPS can afford it is the same reasoning why the the econmoy is the way it is today.

 

[iamupser]

What do you consider a living wage ???? $40 hr, $50 hr, $100 hr, ETC. In order for you to say we should make more than you need to put a number on it? Your reasoning that we should make more money becasue UPS can afford it is the same reasoning why the the econmoy is the way it is today.

I think it's only right that the workers who make the company successful get to reap some of the reward of their hard work. When companies are doing lousy they aren't afraid to ask for concessions.

 

[JonFrum]

I will never understand, with the numbers at their disposal why the part timers allow the union to run rough shod over them the way they do. The union has successfully fought for them to get a total of $0.50 starting pay raise over the past 20 some years. In the last contract they gave away health coverage starting in 60 or 90 days in favor of one full year's wait for individual coverage and 18 months before family coverage kicks in.

Now, if rumors are to be belived, the union is considering taking you out on strike for an issue that has to do with drivers and nothing whatsoever to do with insiders. And after all this, if you cross the picket line to feed your family, you are a scab.

course, if you are like the folks in my state, if you walk the picket line, you will get something like $140 bucks a week strike pay (well, full timers will, not sure what part timers get) but you may have to drive 100 miles on one specific day to the union hall to pick up the check or it will be returned to the IBT. That was the notice on the union board around here after the '97 strike.

You have the numbers, my understanding is one member one vote. Stop taking it in the short hairs for an organization that in most functional terms does not care about you.

just my 2c...

Normally a bargaining unit is composed of similarly situated workers with similar interests. Thus if UPS were being organized for the first time today, the part-timers would be a seperate bargaining unit, and vote seperately on their own contract, seperate from the full-timers. (There could also be seperate units of package car drivers, feeder drivers, mechanics, clerks, etc. Whatever the members want.)

But the Teamsters have always insisted on everyone being in one bargaining unit. They don't even allow the various Supplemental areas to be seperate bargaining units. That keeps everyone powerless, especially the part-timers, since most part-timers are relatively new, young, low-seniority, inexperienced, and uninformed.

Only a small percentage of all the part-timers who pass through UPS' revolving doors are even eligible to vote. Contract votes only happen every five or six years now instead of every three years as in days of old. Only those part-timers who happen to be on the payroll at voting time are able to vote. Many part-timers in Right-To-Work States are not even Teamster members and so are ineligible to vote.

Teamster negotiators manipulate the length of the Contract, the composition of the bargaining unit, and the mixed-bag "offer" they present to the voting members. They then unanimously recomend a YES vote, leaving voters to believe that is the last, best, and final offer, and rejecting it will mean a strike.

It's all about control, and insuring Labor Peace.

 

[UPSGUY72]

I think it's only right that the workers who make the company successful get to reap some of the reward of their hard work. When companies are doing lousy they aren't afraid to ask for concessions.

You go find a Job that pays you $30 hr with no education required gives you some of the best heath insurance you can get ( atleast where I am), a pension, 401K, discount stoke options, paid vactions sickdays and personal days, ETC. When you find one let me know. As a driver I make more money than 70% of the people working.

 

[iamupser]

You go find a Job that pays you $30 hr with no education required gives you some of the best heath insurance you can get ( atleast where I am), a pension, 401K, discount stoke options, paid vactions sickdays and personal days, ETC. When you find one let me know. As a driver I make more money than 70% of the people working.

There are many educated people that work at UPS I assure you. If you feel so bad about it, you could probably donate the money back to UPS or the United Way for the amount you don't think you deserve.

 

[brownIEman]

Those were all concessions the Company wanted, not the Union. These shortsighted savings by the Company have led to the low quality of part-time workers we have today. These concessions were allowed to preserve the pay and benefit schedule for the p/t employees that were employed prior to the new contract. Preserving current member pay and benefit schedules is always a primary goal of our negotiating team.

Keep in mind that all pay rates and benefits in the Contract are "minimums" and the Company could raise the starting wage rate, or any wage rate for that matter, at any time.

This is not my opinion but information directly from 3 members of the negotiating committee.

First off, Crowbar, I am not picking on you, just happened to pick your post to reply to this idea of "minimum" that several people have mentioned on this thread and in others in the past on the board.

Now, to all those bringing up the point that the pay in the contract is just the minimum, and UPS can voluntarily pay more any time it wants, please stop. You sound like idiots when you say that. Don't believe me? Consider this, the pay scales in the contract are a business agreement negotiated between UPS and the bargaining unit employees (through their representative the teamsters). Like any other business agreement.

So, try this. Next time you are planning to move, and you go to sell your house, after all the negotiating is done with your realtor, the buyer, their realtor, and the final communications are going back and forth, I want you to tell your buyer "now, this price we have agreed on is only a minimum, you can pay me more if you want, and if you really cared about me you would, you can afford it"

Try it. I would be willing to bet every one involved will look at you as though you sound like and idiot.

 

[bellesmom]

I think it's great our package/feeder drivers earn such a good living but unfortunately not ALL UPS employees do either of these 2 jobs. I get the comment all the time "wow, you must make good $$" which for 22.3's over a year and a half ago it was decent and not half of what package/feeders make but I was content and didnt' expect your pay. Our 22.3 jobs were dissolved somehow, we're on split shifts with 5 hours between shifts, very little sleep, no family time as our shifts start late afternoon, no personal lives and with 1 day off but somehow not being paid a 6th report and $4 an hour was taken away.
I don't think a strike would happen because as in any situation, if it's not affecting people personally it's not their concern. The 22.3's that have been punished on a daily basis for wanting a full-time job, OTHER than package/ feeder are just watching and waiting because if it can be done to us successfully, don't think your groups won't be next.

 

[alwaysoverallowed]

I'm a short time reader (6 mo.) but a first time poster; from what I infer from the OP is we would strike not because we are being paid too little but that we are being worked too much.i I believe that this true in most of America, and IMO most people are being asked too much of what that they have to offer. Union became about in this country because the work force could not handle the demand of what was asked of them; thus the 40 hr work week, weekend time off, and child labor laws. The way UPS is treating its' workers in indicative of the way the working class is being treated in this country. The TEA party is trying to triumph the cause by saying that we are taxed too much, but is it we are worked too hard? I believe this is true. My wife is currently being asked to do the job of her's plus that of another position which they eliminated. I think now is the time that those of us who are unionized to take a stand and say "Enough is Enough," we can't give any more and honor what you promised us in a contract. Recently a local electricians union went on strike and I took a personal day to walk with them, not because I wanted to show support for my friend but because I wanted to take a stand and say the working class who is unionized will take a stand and say "Treat us fairly." We our not asking for the equal pay of our supervisors' or managers' but give us pay and hours (i.e. family time, alone time, personal time) that is in proportion to the time given to our company. In times like these I often remember a sermon given by a Catholic priest give during the second World War: When they came for the Gypsies I said nothing because I wasn't a Gyps When they came for the Jews I said nothing because I was not a Jew When they came for the Communist I said nothing because I wasn't a Communist Now they have come for me and there is no one else to speak
We must come together and unite against harsh over time, lose of jobs and benefits if not for ourselves but to say stop taking from us and giving to you (shareholders) and let us live as we can so that we can show others that we don't have to be treated this way and an honest days work should equal and honest days pay.

 

[UPSGUY72]

There are many educated people that work at UPS I assure you. If you feel so bad about it, you could probably donate the money back to UPS or the United Way for the amount you don't think you deserve.

I'm not complain that I get paid to much I get paid very well. I'm one of those educated people I have BS degree and I also have Commercial Helicopter License. How ever I can make more money with better benifits working for UPS. I make more money than most people that have a job that requires a college degree.

What I said is that you don't need a education to get a job with UPS making $30 hr and that you are not going to find another company that pays you $30 hr with all the benifits with out a education and even with a college education you be hard pressed to finda job making $30 hr with any benifits .

 

[rod]

You go find a Job that pays you $30 hr with no education required gives you some of the best heath insurance you can get ( atleast where I am), a pension, 401K, discount stoke options, paid vactions sickdays and personal days, ETC. When you find one let me know. As a driver I make more money than 70% of the people working.

There are a lot of people making that kind of money where I live. Its called working for the government or in the trades. One friend makes $28.50 plus great health ins. and all the other perks and all he does is work for the City Parks Dept. Most of the time he and his partner just drive around the city cleaning the parks. It ain't rocket science. Another friend works for the Street Dept. Once again you don't have to be an Einstein to drive a plow. Another works for the County----I still haven't figured out what he does. They all make 25 to 30 bucks an hour. They get more paid time off,if you include sick time and comp time than any UPS driver ever dreamed of. They get EVERY holiday off. I also have many friends that work in the trades. (plumbing, carpentry, elect., etc) and granted things aren't as good as they used to be but the ones that are good at what they do are all finding work. Hell- I make $17 bucks an hour mowing grass and doing other no talent things for my local township. Thats for a job where I have absolutely no supervision or fixed schedule.

 

[iamupser]

You may not have to be well educated, but most of the hourly sacrifice the heck out of their bodies. Instead of using brains your using brawn. Most people I see at UPS near the end of their careers or the 1's I have seen make it to retirement can barely walk. I don't know that $30/hr is worth being crippled at or near retirement if you make it.

Speaking in general, if the corporation is doing good, why shouldn't the workers share in the success? Not everyone is cut out to be an engineer, accountant, scientist, etc... That doesn't mean they can't be good productive citizens. I think for a healthy middle class, you need good paying, productive jobs. People can say what they want about auto workers, those people made good money, but they SPENT that money all around the country supporting a lot of other industries.

 

[deleted9]

There are a lot of people making that kind of money where I live. Its called working for the government or in the trades. One friend makes $28.50 plus great health ins. and all the other perks and all he does is work for the City Parks Dept. Most of the time he and his partner just drive around the city cleaning the parks. It ain't rocket science. Another friend works for the Street Dept. Once again you don't have to be an Einstein to drive a plow. Another works for the County----I still haven't figured out what he does. They all make 25 to 30 bucks an hour. They get more paid time off,if you include sick time and comp time than any UPS driver ever dreamed of. They get EVERY holiday off. I also have many friends that work in the trades. (plumbing, carpentry, elect., etc) and granted things aren't as good as they used to be but the ones that are good at what they do are all finding work. Hell- I make $17 bucks an hour mowing grass and doing other no talent things for my local township. Thats for a job where I have absolutely no supervision or fixed schedule.

My question would be if the grass is greener somewhere else (no pun intended) why are you here?

 

[JonFrum]

My question would be if the grass is greener somewhere else (no pun intended) why are you here?

I don't think Rod is "here." I think he's retired.
- - - -
By the way, you can make thirty dollars an hour working for almost any sucessful business. Just negotiate a contract where half the workers take a huge cut in pay and benefits, and add that money to the pay of the other half.

HINT: be sure you are among the second half.

 

[iamupser]

My question would be if the grass is greener somewhere else (no pun intended) why are you here?

If something is happening in your neighborhood, one would be more inclined to do something about it. Like safety issues, why would someone who doesn't work at UPS give a darn about any safety issues at UPS. We work here so we have a vested interest in making sure things are "right", be it monetary, safety, etc...

I'll also say that, yes, we are all here for the money, but when money is the only reason you are here, it makes for a very unpleasant work experience. I think you have to enjoy some other aspect of the job to make it.