Supervisors Training vs. Supervisors Working

Discussion in 'UPS Discussions' started by UPS Preloader, Dec 26, 2011.

  1. UPS Preloader

    UPS Preloader Active Member

    When training a new hire to work as a preloader working on the belt, the supervisors in my building will typically tell the new hire to work one or two truckswhile the supervisor works one or two trucks I myself do not consider this training as the new hire is in one truck while the Sup is working in another without any communication going on between the two of them. I'm curious as to how training someone to work on the belt happens in other areas. I've considered grieving this, but my concern is that they will just give someone on the belt an extra truck and everyone is already maxed out.
  2. Monkey Butt

    Monkey Butt Obscured by Mirrors Staff Member

    Not a betting man but if I did, I would bet you get one of them or maybe both. :consoling:
  3. UPSGUY72

    UPSGUY72 Well-Known Member

    I would call that training. Starting on two cars and getting the hang of things is easier then being thrown to the lions and starting on 4 cars and not having a clue.

    However if you feel the need to file a grievance I'm sure they would be more than happy to give you the other two cars to go alone with the 4 you already probably have.

    Pick your battle wisely as the outcome of winning isn't always good for you.
  4. hypocrisy

    hypocrisy Banned

    Training is:
    1. Demonstrating the methods.
    2. Observing the trainee perform the demonstrated methods.
    3. Re-demonstrating if necessary.

    Working in an adjacent package car is not training.
  5. nystripe96

    nystripe96 Active Member

    My training was essentially screw up until I stopped screwing up lol
  6. soberups

    soberups Pees in the brown Koolaid

    The solution to this problem is simple. Work safely and according to the methods that you have been trained, and if the belt starts backing up just shut it off until you get it clean. Repeat as necessary. If every one is maxed out and your managements "plan" is to give someone an extra truck, then you need to allow their "plan" to fail. You are just the messenger.
  7. UnsurePost

    UnsurePost making the unreadable unreadabler

    Strictly by the contract, the mgmt person is to be working, or the Teamster; but not both. Management person is not and cannot be training someone, if they are both working on one job function. Grievance.
  8. menotyou

    menotyou bella amicizia

    Supervisors are allowed 15 minutes to train. That's it. Any movement of packages is our job, not theirs.
  9. brown_trousers

    brown_trousers Active Member

    Interesting, I didnt realize you were the authority on defining methods
  10. trickpony1

    trickpony1 Well-Known Member

    Can you offer a better definition?
    I've been involved in the instructional process in other aspects of my life and crowbars definition is the best one I've seen yet.
    Care to offer a counterpoint?

    VITOGOLD New Member

  12. Jones

    Jones fILE A GRIEVE! Staff Member

    I think I just found my new signature.
  13. hypocrisy

    hypocrisy Banned

    Enlightenment comes to each of us from many different paths, but when reached it should be celebrated.
  14. brown_trousers

    brown_trousers Active Member

    In a contract, subjective terms such as "training" are either defined within the contract or are left as subjective terminology. But they are are not redefined by any party outside of the written contract.

    so the real question is whether a dictionary definition will agree with the training methods ups imposes, because im guessing it is NOT specifically defined within our contract.
  15. Pacman

    Pacman Member

    The problem with training an employee correctly regardless of the job is the pressure to maintain the numbers management is held accountable to. A preload with 4 or 5 new employees out of 25 can not maintain the same level of performance that a fully trained operation can. The management groups don't seem to understand the math. The upper management, who couldn't do the job in the first place, hold the center to the same numbers no matter how many employees are being trained. I feel it is much easier to train a driver than a preloader because it is a one on one with fewer distractions. Turnover rates on some inside jobs are too high and the quality of training is most often the determining factor.
    UPS long ago abandoned the long view of developing well trained loyal employees and maintaining a relationship of mutual trust and respect. Jim Casey said it best " if we are working for money alone it is the easiest way not to get it". UPSers doing more than most any other companies employees have carried the organization for years. Many employees are just tired of trying without being acknowledged and respected so they will do the job but not always put out the supreme effort they have in the past. I am surprised many continue to push the weight up the hill instead of demanding management do their job and reduce the incline. What is managements role if not to facilitate the processes?
    The 2012 contract will be interesting to watch. UPS will have a bad economy to fall back on and the Teamsters will ask for the Moon instead of negotiating a meaningful agreement that addresses the real world all UPSers live in.
    An Example:
    Dispatches are too high and require methods to be skipped and service to be compromised.
    Teamsters want more full time jobs so their members can work one job rather than UPS and another one.
    Possible Solution:
    Inside employees working as helpers. Preloaders could work with drivers on specifically designed routes to get the 8 hours. High volume pick up routes could get to the buildings earlier too prime the outbound operations. Many will say it can't be done but it is during peak so is it it can't or the planning would require some thinkers instead of pushers? Some would same cube size is a restriction but pulling a circus wagon is a solution. Since UPS is required to take most new drivers from the inside they would have a ready made driver training plan in place.
    If UPS keeps at the same game and the Teamsters don't understand the economics of helping to maximize profits for the organization maybe some day we will see the old brown trucks in the fields rusting just like we were told the REA trucks did. Accountability goes both ways and the success of UPS depends on management and non-management working together. UPS doesn't have a monopoly on the transportation business and if they don't pick up the millions per day it won't take long for it to wind down. Remember the 96 strike?
  16. hypocrisy

    hypocrisy Banned

    This is where "guessing" gets you in trouble. Training is not left to being subjective, it is more than clear in Article 3 Section 7(a), (b), and (c) with actionable penalties in (d). I guarantee if anyone were to use my clear and concise definition of training in any grievance it would be settled far before it ever was presented before a JALM, as it has in every single grievance I have ever filed where "training" was used to attempt to cover for a supervisor working.

    Perhaps you should start with shorts before you try and fill those trousers.
  17. brown_trousers

    brown_trousers Active Member

    Sorry, but just because you guarantee something, it doesnt make it true. Try forming an argument based on facts rather than hearsay.
  18. hypocrisy

    hypocrisy Banned

    Well, that is a fact because as I stated I have won every single grievance ever filed using that definition.

    What you are failing to understand is that our contract relies on the language, and the intent of the language. The best way I can illustrate that to you is by this following anecdote told by a good Steward friend of mine:

    Supervisor: BU, why did you bring these Over-70 packages back?
    Bargaining Unit: They weren't marked as Over-70's so I stopped their progress until such time as they could be properly identified.
    Sup: Who told you to do that!
    BU: Article 44, Section 2. (shows Supervisor contract)
    Sup: That's not the intent of that language.
    BU: You don't think so? Would you agree then, if we talked to the author of that language, that he or she could attest to the intent of that language?
    SUP: of course.
    BU: Great! You're looking at him.
  19. reaper301

    reaper301 New Member

    well this post should intrigue some of you, our last supervisor had previously worked for ups so he knew the procedures etc. we now have a new supervisor that was not trained on the methods of the preload, ie how to load trucks ,spa, usps, etc. last friday we had 3 people call off(usually have a crew of 8 or 9) 3 supervisors had to come in to load (3 sups with a total of 4 trucks between them) because our supervisor "was not trained on how to load or how to train to load. well on our regular days we run 16 routes avg heavy days like yesterday we run 18 to 19 routes, we have what we call a floater most time spent in the feeder(new guys) then will load a truck when the feeder is finished guess whos training the new guys...ME! lol although i dont mind this just thought id throw it out there.
  20. Monkey Butt

    Monkey Butt Obscured by Mirrors Staff Member

    Welcome to Brown Cafe and thanks for an interesting post.