Telematics...UPS is wiring your truck

[trplnkl]

Talk to your steward or union BA and see what they think.
If you been always eating lunch together for long enough time, and it not far from your route, tell him you're following past practice. Let the grievance hearing decide if it's excessive distance to drive for a person to have lunch. If the driving distance is great I would tread lightly. I have seen a driver get terminated for padding miles, but it was a heck of a long distance to travel for lunch. Did one of you piss him off some how? I doubt that wasting the center manager's gas is the reason for the change.

I would be willing to bet the center manager, because of the new tech stuff, just now realized how many of you meet up at meal time. He is probably more afraid y'all are having mini-union meetings than he is the fuel. We had a center manager one time that continually changed things that didn't make a tinker's damn just because he didn't want anyone enjoying their day. He went out of his way to make everyone miserable. I think he blamed all of us for him being transferred here. Yes, I am serious.

 

[stevetheupsguy]

I would be willing to bet the center manager, because of the new tech stuff, just now realized how many of you meet up at meal time. He is probably more afraid y'all are having mini-union meetings than he is the fuel. We had a center manager one time that continually changed things that didn't make a tinker's damn just because he didn't want anyone enjoying their day. He went out of his way to make everyone miserable. I think he blamed all of us for him being transferred here. Yes, I am serious.

Another saying I never heard before.

 

[browniehound]

I guess you have inside information that I don't.

I attended many, many meetings on this system. Many involving corporate representatives that designed and built it.

Not once, did they mention any intent other than what I said here:
- Improve Safety
- Reduce excess miles
- Reduce Automotive Expense
- Reduce Idle time

Not once, did they teach how to use the system to terminate people or document a case.

They described that we use the system to point out occurences of ineffectiveness and make the employee aware. In general, the awareness has improved all the above areas. No discipline needed.

I'm sure some manager somewhere will use it wrong. I'm sure some employee somewhere will tamper with the system and be fired. This does not make the intent equal to what you have proposed.

I don't know why the vehicles were not equipped with 3 point belts. Even if you are right that safety was bypassed for cost in that case, it doesn't mean that there is mal intent in this one.

Again, 1500 drivers have used this for over a year. I'm aware of one termination and it was very well justified.

P-Man

P-man,
I happen to agree with you that the intent is not document cases to fire a drive. The contract states information from technological can't used to disipline an employee.

My question is, why did UPS waste all this money on this stuff? Every driver I know wears his seat belt and most only back when necessary.

The issue becomes the bulk-head door. I work in dense residential neighborhoods and when I'm in them I'm guilty of the bulk-head door. I'm not driving more than 15 MPH so I leave it open. If I go on a main street its closed. On a hill I close it, but to close it from 12 Elm street to 18 Elm street in unnecessary in my opinion.

I know I'll get crap for saying that, but its the truth. What is more likely to cause an injury or accident: sending us out in an snow and ice storm and working me until 830 or letting me keep the bulk head door open for close residential stops?

 

[rod]

Another saying I never heard before.

My Dad always included "tinkers damn" in his lectures to me when I screwed up and got in trouble. (in between swats to the back of the head ). I guess I never knew what a tinker was so now I have to Google it.

 

[trplnkl]

My Dad always included "tinkers damn" in his lectures to me when I screwed up and got in trouble. (in between swats to the back of the head ). I guess I never knew what a tinker was so now I have to Google it.

without Googleing, I think a tinker is someone that hand makes things from light weight metal.

 

[rod]

without Googleing, I think a tinker is someone that hand makes things from light weight metal.

A tinker traveled around the country mending pots and pans. A "tinkers dam" -not damn- was what he built up around the hole to keep the soder from running through it. Once the soder hardened the dam was removed- hence- usless- hence "not worth a dam. -------I just keep getting smarter everyday thanks to the BC and Google

 

[stevetheupsguy]

A tinker traveled around the country mending pots and pans. A "tinkers dam" -not damn- was what he built up around the hole to keep the soder from running through it. Once the soder hardened the dam was removed- hence- usless- hence "not worth a dam. -------I just keep getting smarter everyday thanks to the BC and Google

Thanks for the lesson...........................Gramps!!!

 

[trplnkl]

A tinker traveled around the country mending pots and pans. A "tinkers dam" -not damn- was what he built up around the hole to keep the soder from running through it. Once the soder hardened the dam was removed- hence- usless- hence "not worth a dam. -------I just keep getting smarter everyday thanks to the BC and Google

I used Ask.com and got that same response but then it was follow by:
The problem with that interpretation is that all those accounts ignore an earlier phrase - 'a tinker's curse' (or cuss), which exemplified the reputation tinkers had for habitual use of profanity. This example from John Mactaggart's The Scottish Gallovidian Encyclopedia, 1824, predates Knight's version in the popular language:

"A tinkler's curse she did na care what she did think or say."
​

In the Grant County Herald, Wisconsin, 1854, we have:

"There never was a book gotten up by authority and State pay, that was worth a tinker's cuss".
​

So, we can forget about plumbing. The earlier phrase simply migrated the short distance from curse to damn to give us the proper spelling of the phrase - tinker's damn.

 

[rod]

I'm back to being dumb again Sorry about the hyjack

 

[pretzel_man]

P-man,
I happen to agree with you that the intent is not document cases to fire a drive. The contract states information from technological can't used to disipline an employee.

My question is, why did UPS waste all this money on this stuff? Every driver I know wears his seat belt and most only back when necessary.

The issue becomes the bulk-head door. I work in dense residential neighborhoods and when I'm in them I'm guilty of the bulk-head door. I'm not driving more than 15 MPH so I leave it open. If I go on a main street its closed. On a hill I close it, but to close it from 12 Elm street to 18 Elm street in unnecessary in my opinion.

I know I'll get crap for saying that, but its the truth. What is more likely to cause an injury or accident: sending us out in an snow and ice storm and working me until 830 or letting me keep the bulk head door open for close residential stops?

Browniehound:

Sorry for being so long. Please at least read the last paragraph.

I had a copy of the Telematics training (both for district management and drivers) on my computer. I went re-read the materials to ensure I didn't misrepresent what we were taught.

First, let me start with the seat belt. Its NOT true that drivers are wearing their belt all the time and backing only when necessary. At least it wasn't true for the 1500 drivers tested.

There was a remarkable change in this behavior when it was presented to the drivers. I was amazed at the relatively low seat belt usage when the system was first put in. Its now higher than 99.8%

Next, recording while driving. Again, I was surprised at how high the usage was before implementation.

I know you want to focus on the bulkhead door issue. I don't know what to say. The methods say to close it, so close it. I once posted that when I was a driver, I didn't close the door all the time. If my sup came up and said that I had to close it and that he would know if I didn't.... Well, I would start closing the door and move on.

The system has also found much excessive idle time going on. I'm not talking about 10 degree weather and the driver is just trying to get through the day. I'm talking about pure unnecessary idling. This reduction alone saves a tremendous amount of fuel. Feeder has been monitoring this since the early 1990's.

The tests have shown that from an automotive side, road calls are reduced and maintenance expense is also reduced. This is a major part of telematics savings.

You say its a waste of money. Think about it. UPS does NOT spend money without tremendous thought. (Sometimes we think way too much). Why would the management committee spend so much money if it were a waste?

This system started in one building in Georgia and proved to save money. It then moved to two, then three, then to 1500 drivers. This year its moving to one center in each district and one whole district (somewhere in New England).

There is a very easy way to prove that this is a waste of money. If BEFORE the system is put in their center, all drivers in started wearing their seat belt, eliminating idle time, closing the bulkhead, etc. then the system would show no savings. So far this has not been the case.

Last thing... I may be wrong but I think its a misconception that "The contract states information from technology can't used to disipline an employee". We were told that the contract now allows discipline based on thechnology but is limited. Here is the article: "No employee shall be discharged on a first offense if such discharge is based solely upon
information received from GPS or any successor system unless he/she engages in dishonesty"

P-Man

 

[stevetheupsguy]

I used Ask.com and got that same response but then it was follow by:
The problem with that interpretation is that all those accounts ignore an earlier phrase - 'a tinker's curse' (or cuss), which exemplified the reputation tinkers had for habitual use of profanity. This example from John Mactaggart's The Scottish Gallovidian Encyclopedia, 1824, predates Knight's version in the popular language:

"A tinkler's curse she did na care what she did think or say."

​

In the Grant County Herald, Wisconsin, 1854, we have:

"There never was a book gotten up by authority and State pay, that was worth a tinker's cuss".

​

So, we can forget about plumbing. The earlier phrase simply migrated the short distance from curse to damn to give us the proper spelling of the phrase - tinker's damn.

I'm back to being dumb again Sorry about the hyjack

And here I thought I had gained some useless knowledge.

 

[trplnkl]

I'm back to being dumb again Sorry about the hyjack

Not dumb Rod, more educated. To me either way, it means the same.
Something that is insignificant or worthless.
Don't worry about the hyjack.....other than P-man's latest post, this subject is just about had everything said that needed to be said. Just my opinion of course.

 

[dilligaf]

We are online with this system. A few of us used to eat lunch together everyday. We were informed that we can't do this anymore. We can't go off route because we are wasting the center manager's gas, as he put it. So we now bag our lunch and eat it in our package cars on route with the engine running. It is too cold to eat with the heater off. I now use a little more gas than usual and haven't heard anything from the center manager so far.

Any steward or BA, worth their salt, could easily fight and win any disciplinary action taken against a member for this. This is exactly why 'past practice' is used in any grievance.

 

[HEFFERNAN]

There is a very easy way to prove that this is a waste of money. If BEFORE the system is put in their center, all drivers in started wearing their seat belt, eliminating idle time, closing the bulkhead, etc. then the system would show no savings. So far this has not been the case.

P-Man

Please explain to me how UPS saves money by bugging the seat belt and bulkhead door. I'm not saying its right or wrong but monetarily speaking, UPS does not save money on these 2 aspects. You can argue and probably win the case with the other implemented sensors.

If a driver can not be trusted, why even have us.

 

[pretzel_man]

Please explain to me how UPS saves money by bugging the seat belt and bulkhead door. I'm not saying its right or wrong but monetarily speaking, UPS does not save money on these 2 aspects. You can argue and probably win the case with the other implemented sensors.

If a driver can not be trusted, why even have us.

Seat belt and bulkhead is mostly for safety reasons. The others are cost savings.

Again, you seem to be arguing that you are already doing these things properly and should be trusted to do so. That has not been the case to date.

Sometimes, people just need a reminder about where they stand in these areas. To date, I am not aware of any substantial discipline or issues based on those sensors. I'm aware of one termination and it was well deserved.

P-Man

 

[Hedley_Lamarr]

We all knew it was coming someday and today is that day. UPS is wiring all the package cars with sensors to monitor the performance of the truck. But it monitors a lot more than that.

"Many of you have heard of the possibility of the company wiring your package cars. The plan is to put sensors on your seat belts, your bulkhead doors, your e-brake, and your reverse gear. It's happening now. Our shop has piles of the wiring harnesses to do all of the trucks..."

The future is here today.

"When you put your car in gear it senses if you have your seat belt on, and whether your bulkhead door is closed or not. Additionally it will tell if you put the car in reverse first and for how long. The other sensor on the e-brake will tell if you applied the e-brake when you turned the key off. "

And that's just the tip of the iceberg of what this system can do.

Should you be worried? Only if you don't do the job the way they want it done. If you leave your bulkhead door open, or if you nose into driveways and back out, you better get with the program. Some drivers claim to be experts at using the methods, but they only use them during a ride-along. Now, every minute of every day is an OJS ride.

If this isn't happening in your building yet, ask your mechanic when to expect it. He probably knows. That's how much time you have to perfect your methods.

No one will be spared.

George

If you follow proper work methods you will have nothing to worry about...

 

[soberups]

Please explain to me how UPS saves money by bugging the seat belt and bulkhead door. I'm not saying its right or wrong but monetarily speaking, UPS does not save money on these 2 aspects. You can argue and probably win the case with the other implemented sensors.

If a driver can not be trusted, why even have us.

UPS saves money by putting itself in a position to terminate a full-scale employee and replace him/her with one who will be in progression for two years and have only 1 or 2 weeks of paid vacation versus the 4,5 or 6 of a long-term driver.

If the company can terminate, cripple or kill off a 20 year veteran and replace him with a new hire, they will save at least $10K a year right off the bat.

This is the reason why the company wont upgrade its older equipment with power steering and 3 -point belts. They have no financial incentive to save the life or help extend the career of a 45 yr. old veteran when there is a 22 yr old rookie waiting eagerly in the wings to do the same job for $10 an hour less.

If the company truly had our safety in mind with Telematics, the sensors would be wired into the ignition so as to prevent the vehicle from even running unless the door was closed and the belt buckled.

UPS doesnt care whether or not a 2-point belt will protect the driver from serious injury or death, as long as they can use the sensors to build a case for his termination and replacement with a cheaper employee.

 

[stevetheupsguy]

I would think it would be easier to get newer cars with all of the equipment you are asking for. Upgrading older equipment is almost the same as putting all of the new knick-knacks onto a computer running windows 95.

 

[City Driver]

UPS saves money by putting itself in a position to terminate a full-scale employee and replace him/her with one who will be in progression for two years and have only 1 or 2 weeks of paid vacation versus the 4,5 or 6 of a long-term driver.

If the company can terminate, cripple or kill off a 20 year veteran and replace him with a new hire, they will save at least $10K a year right off the bat.

This is the reason why the company wont upgrade its older equipment with power steering and 3 -point belts. They have no financial incentive to save the life or help extend the career of a 45 yr. old veteran when there is a 22 yr old rookie waiting eagerly in the wings to do the same job for $10 an hour less.

If the company truly had our safety in mind with Telematics, the sensors would be wired into the ignition so as to prevent the vehicle from even running unless the door was closed and the belt buckled.

UPS doesnt care whether or not a 2-point belt will protect the driver from serious injury or death, as long as they can use the sensors to build a case for his termination and replacement with a cheaper employee.

what u are saying is true and false at the same time

if a driver gets into an accident and is seriously hurt, you dont think it will cost the company alot of money? workplace accidents are very expensive, even when u arent including the price of the equipment repair

 

[Paid-over-in-Maine]

Browniehound:

"No employee shall be discharged on a first offense if such discharge is based solely upon
information received from GPS or any successor system unless he/she engages in dishonesty"

P-Man

That is what I heard at a meeting also. FIRST OFFENSE.... Beware of the second one!