Catatonic
Nine Lives
I think Venezuela is beyond help at this point.
Another Socialist experiment broken apart on the rocky shore of reality.
The Founding Fathers Were Scoundrels!
- Thread starter wkmac
- Start date
Another Socialist experiment broken apart on the rocky shore of reality.
if you factor in climate change then capitalism is also a rocky experiment
Catatonic
Nine Lives
Why would I do that?
That's just crazy!
perhaps its a matter of perspective.
Catatonic
Nine Lives
newfie
Well-Known Member
socialist need fresh vibrant hosts to survive the endless blood sucking
malcolm x said something similar about capitalism.
Catatonic
Nine Lives
He's dead ... tieguy is alive
wkmac
Well-Known Member
I would change that to say, "statism or statists need fresh vibrant hosts to survive the endless blood sucking."
But that's just me.
Concerning so-called socialism if you will, H.L. Mencken once stated: "Every election is a sort of advanced auction sale of stolen goods." I'm of the opinion this applies regardless who wins any given election because at the end of the day, all forms of the State are by their nature socialism and collectivism. It is the level of degree that determines who is who (if labels are your thing) in this whole monstrosity.
wkmac
Well-Known Member
Capitalism and Socialist are not antagonistic to one another contrary to popular myth. My own personal opinion is that both thrive off of one another and need one another to even exist. Case in point is the more our gov't socializes, the more so-called capitalism seems to benefit and grow. With all the cries of Obama being a socialist/communist and yet Wall Street and much of large scale capitalism grew quite well under Obama. Now what might be called Main Street capitalism or what I call the Main Street economy didn't do quite as well. In fact those results IMO are a lot more mixed and depending on location as to what outcomes were achieved. BTW: I don't consider growth in the large scale economy as a good measure of economic health for average folk because that economic sector is mostly driven by corp. welfare and cronyism so that doesn't come as a measure to the success or failure of Obama as a good President.
Socialism as much as people want to blame Karl Marx, was given birth as a term and ideal by an industrialist who really had the idea of socialism as a kind of technocracy rather than what we typically think of today. Henri de Saint-Simon had the idea not just rule by expert (technocracy) but the idea of a strong work ethic that all in society labored for the cause. No free rides. Ironically the arguments given here about freeloaders in our own social welfare state were the perfect socialist talking points of the original idea that was called socialism. If originalism means something, then many here who speak with disdain of socialism for its freeloader outcomes are upholding some traditional of socialism arguments never realizing that they are.
But the other problem in all of this, is rarely in any discussion about capitalism and socialism are the 2 terms actually defined but when both parties agree to the definitions and then begin the conversation, that is when it gets interesting. When I've been involved in discussions that do this, the flavor of the conversation takes a very different direction and more often than not a general consensus begins to emerge. From there is where the interesting part really begins.
- Chomsky Quotes @quotes_chomsky Oct 18
(#Aristotle) saw the same problem #Madison saw in a #democracy - the poor might take away the property of the rich.The solution he proposed was a #welfare state with the aim of reducing inequality.The other alternative, pursued by the #FoundingFathers - was to reduce democracy.
7 replies 58 retweets 124 likes
- Chomsky Quotes Retweeted
Chomsky Quotes @quotes_chomsky Oct 17
Right through American history, there's been an ongoing clash between pressure for more freedom & democracy coming from below and efforts at elite control & domination from above - It goes back to the founding of the country.
Non sequitur
Well-Known Member
That's called monopoly capitalism. Which is the same as communism. No thank you!
just remember who writes history: the winners.
theres 2 types of people: those who think most politicians are corrupt, and those who falsely think that democrats or republicans good / other party bad
the founding fathers being rotten is consistent with the idea that most politicians are corrupt.
theres 2 types of people: those who think most politicians are corrupt, and those who falsely think that democrats or republicans good / other party bad
the founding fathers being rotten is consistent with the idea that most politicians are corrupt.
zubenelgenubi
I'm a star
You mean it was illegal to declare independence from Britain? You mean the founders were all different people with different perspectives, goals and ambitions? You mean that in order to secede from the British Empire they had to get a huge number of colonists on board (at least 2/3 of 50% or less, I'm guessing), and a lot of the British citizen colonists were slave owners because slavery had been considered a legitimate economic institution for thousands of years?
All of this is such earth-shattering news to me. I'm gonna need to sit down for a bit. Btw, do you think life would be better or worse if we had stayed a British Colony?
All of this is such earth-shattering news to me. I'm gonna need to sit down for a bit. Btw, do you think life would be better or worse if we had stayed a British Colony?
history is written by the victors. and huge swaths of the population continue to get their history from the victors.
ive argued on here not recently that native american genocide did in fact occur.
we are also entering a new era of politics with the rise of the permanent lie. for example: bill clinton once said NAFTA would be good for workers, but he doesnt continue to say that. george bush once said iraq had wmds, but he doesnt continue to say that. but with trump its something new: he lies and even when verifiable fact says other wise. like his inauguration attendance for example.
ive argued on here not recently that native american genocide did in fact occur.
we are also entering a new era of politics with the rise of the permanent lie. for example: bill clinton once said NAFTA would be good for workers, but he doesnt continue to say that. george bush once said iraq had wmds, but he doesnt continue to say that. but with trump its something new: he lies and even when verifiable fact says other wise. like his inauguration attendance for example.
Fred's Myth
Nonhyphenated American
Ever heard of 'survival of the fittest'?
According to ancient historical Native American history books, the tribes that the Europeans encountered in the New World has systematically eliminated the weaker, peace-loving natives, who in turn had killed off the inferior species of human that they encountered. The circle and cycle of life.
Wait.....did I just make all that up? Reminds me of the crap you post!!!!
you accusing me of making stuff up is your way of rationalizing the hard truths that you cant deal with.
Non sequitur
Well-Known Member
Vacuum arguments.
DriveInDriveOut
Inordinately Right
So you agree with Ricky?Wel, this makes perfect sense to the-for-brains parrots
Good for you buddy!
