MrFedEx
Engorged Member
Thanks for stealing my avatar. Perhaps you should get one that more accurately reflects who you are. How about a picture of a garden troll? Or maybe a monkey flinging poop from his cage in the zoo. You are such a pathetic little weasel. Does Fred pay well for spamming sites like you do this one?
And they say this because they love you and want only the best for you right? Fred's evil and Hoffa's a saint? Remember that is a company that would bury Fedex tomorrow if they could and make a point not to hire any displaced Fedex worker. On this the UPS and the union I do not doubt are in complete agreement.
1989
Well-Known Member
UnconTROLLed
perfection
Pretending to be a driver? You are out of your mind. What do you want a pic of me in my driver uniform?
Exposed? Explain.....
What the hell do you think a UPS driver does? HUMPS PKGS. Just like you do.
You are on drugs, it is official!
Where are they now?
MrFedEx
Engorged Member
This is the kind of logic union-haters use when they bash the Teamsters. Please tell me how the union contributed to the downfall of Airborne? Perhaps you don't know this, but many Airborne drivers were owner-operators...not Teamsters. Did the Airborne IC's contribute to the downfall of the company as well?
First, Airborne management assisted in the downfall of the company by attempting to create a ground service, which was a disaster. Second, when DHL bought Airborne, DHL was already a sinking ship domestically. This was kind of like assigning a new captain to the Titanic after it had already hit the iceberg. Please tell me how the unions had anything to do with this abortion?
I don't believe I am suggesting that the union had anything to do with the downfall of Airborne. Merely pointing out that all those benefits are now moot. One can place all the blame on management for all I care. Or one can place all the blame on IC's. The point is simply that Airborne for whatever reason is now defunct. Fedex created a ground service and that contrary to some beliefs has not been a disaster.
1989
Well-Known Member
MrFedEx
Engorged Member
No, not yet. So far it's been a tremendous success. That could all change if the legal issues don't go the way Fred would like. Your post seemed to suggest that Airborne went away because of the Teamsters.
If Ground IC's become "employees" will you blame Fred (management) or yourself and fellow IC's? In my mind, it's all on management, because they created the system and rules under which the IC's operate. The point you always seem to miss is that this whole Ground concept was why Smith bought RPS in the first place. Roadway, and then Caliber, were not taking full advantage of their operating system. Fred saw that by applying FedEx Express operating rules and procedures to RPS, he could make an incredible profit. The only problem is that said rules and procedures apply to employees at Express, one of the most rigidly controlled organizations in the world. That degree of control, even if it's applied to contractors, makes them employees as well. This is the big reason FedEx will eventually lose in the court system.
And what I can not seem to get you to realize is that the degree of control you suggest does not exist at Ground. I do not perform at a high level because Fedex cracks the whip. I do so because a) I hold myself and my drivers to a high level and b) it is more profitable to do so. It is not control applied from the outside, but motivational pride and self interested profit that drive a contractor to succeed. Again, contracting is not for everyone. But there is a huge difference between an employee and a contractor.
MrFedEx
Engorged Member
Are you saying that you have complete control over your driver's uniforms, the delivery technology they use, their hours, the logos on the vehicles, and their conduct on the job? Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't FedEx hold you accountable for the performance of your drivers? If your driver dumps his entire truck of freight into the first dumpster he sees and heads to the bar, what happens? What if he doesn't bother getting any signatures that day or if he decides to wear his 7-11 uniform instead of his Ground duds? You seem to be saying you have complete control over your employees. That doesn't sound like FedEx to me.
FedExer267
Well-Known Member
If that is the case ICs having complete control then why is it management comes to us if there is a issue. why is it we are forced to go to their meetings. why is it they do ride alongs once a year. Would this not fall on the ICs since its their business afterall.
UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)
Well-Known Member
I'll give you a hint--it is because you guys are employees in every sense of the word except that your paycheck does not say FedEx.
As a matter of fact, management is required to ask permission of a contractor to do ride alongs. It's simply not (that I can tell) in the interest of the contractor to refuse.
I think you need to refresh yourself on the guidelines for IC vs employee. The fact that my drivers wear a uniform, use company technology, and perform to the standards set forth by myself and the company means little. You seem to suggest that contractors should want
to form vastly different rules and standards to make some point...a point that would serve your argument. Most contractors, especially multiple route owners, I believe are on the same page with the company's goals. That probably does not bode well for the Fedex you want to see in the future.
Personally, management always contacts me first. If it's something benign, I let them consult the driver. If it's dicy, I handle it. Because if I'm going to lose a driver, it is not going to be over a misstep by management.
MrFedEx
Engorged Member
It means a lot. As I've said before, the degree of control the FedEx corporation (not you) exerts over Ground operations determines employee status. I'm not suggesting that the IC's form different rules and standards either. FedEx has had to pull-back on some of that control, but it's pretty clear who really pulls the strings.
I'm hoping to be gone from FedEx within a year so it really doesn't matter to me personally what FedEx looks like in the future. I am concerned about friends who have chosen FedEx as a career and are going to be left holding the bag someday if Ground wins in the courts.
The goals of FedEx are to enrich the top executives through your efforts as an IC. If they're able to shift some of the air services over to Ground they will make themselves even more money. If you think your revenues will rise in direct proportion to those of FedEx if they pull it off you are sadly mistaken. Remember, you are always completely disposable to the big boys in Memphis.
FedExer267
Well-Known Member
I know there has been alot of talk on here about air services coming to ground. Let me just say that if that indeed does happen look for the purple flu to go thru ground.
We have enough to do know for crappy pay and no benefits. If they think for a minute they can add more to our plates for the same pay then they are thinking crazy. 120 stops 250 miles a day 300 pieces on my route no lunch no breaks I cannot physically do more. Their are alot of drivers that agree.
We don't want your guys work. Wewant you guys to win this thing and go teamster to open the door for us.
We have enough to do know for crappy pay and no benefits. If they think for a minute they can add more to our plates for the same pay then they are thinking crazy. 120 stops 250 miles a day 300 pieces on my route no lunch no breaks I cannot physically do more. Their are alot of drivers that agree.
We don't want your guys work. Wewant you guys to win this thing and go teamster to open the door for us.
Ricochet1a
Well-Known Member
Before Express sends over volume to Ground, there will be a 20% or so expansion of Ground capacity. FedEx will "open routes" which divide up areas served by MVCs into slightly smaller areas. Details are sketchy, but presumably ICs will be able to "purchase" those additional routes to accomodate the additional volume which would be entering the Ground delivery system. So if news regarding any "sudden" expansion of Ground routes pops up, the reason is anticipation of Express volume being transferred.
Another poster put forth the claim that if FedEx were to do this, why not do it now. Right now, FedEx is steadfastly holding onto the claim that every Express employee is an "airline employee". I personally haven't seen a FedEx jet in quite some time, can't jumpseat for travel, and cannot even go onto a ramp or hub secured area since my security "clearance" has lapsed to the "silver" sticker instead of the "gold" sticker - FedEx employees know what this means.
By keeping the volume within Express right now, FedEx has another "fact" to claim that all Express employees are "airline" employees. This completely ignores the fact that Express divides its US operation into two halves, AGFS and DGO, one of which is legitimately an airline under FAA definitions and the other is a package delivery service. If doomsday happens for Fred and Express loses its RLA status, look for a quickfire sequence of events regarding the structure of Express and the delivery of its volume within months. This is why Express employees that intend on staying need to really get the unionization ball rolling RIGHT NOW, to be able to fight this.
It is looking more and more like the Senate wants to break up the FAA bill into separate pieces of legislation. They want parts of it to go under Homeland Security, parts under DOT funding (airport expansion) and yet other parts under labor legislation. Right now it looks like HR 915 is firmly stuck in Washington politics and not moving anytime soon if at all. The language regarding FedEx's classification is a very low priority for Senate leaders right now (Fred's hand is in there I suspect). Another poster stated this may take months to finally get resolved and it does in fact look like he/she was right. A continuing resolution for the funding issues may be created so no interruption of operations occurrs for the FAA.
As long as Express maintains its RLA status, the transformation will occur slowly. Right now Fred doesn't want to give any ammo to his opposition regarding Express not being entirely an airline, but rather two distinguishable "companies" (AGFS/DGO). As long as the question of Express' RLA status is still in question, no major moves will happen regarding the structure of Express. If Express loses its RLA classification, look for Ground to undergo a massive expansion within months if not weeks of that change.
This is why Express employees can't wait for Congress to pull the RLA classification. The groundwork is already done within FedEx to accomodate a change in classification should that happen. Express isn't going to stand by and let NLRB rules allow union votes in stations without changing their "rules of the game". It would take months if not a year to organize signing of union cards and holding of elections in enough stations to make a dent into the Courier craft. By that time, non-overnight volume will be in the hands of Ground and the couriers voting to unionize will be faced with the prospect of becoming part-time employees. Fred will have won yet again.
Back in May I cautioned readers to wait to sign union cards until AFTER the RLA status was withdrawn. Now, I think it is necessary for those that intend on staying with Express to sign union cards NOW. It is beyond a long shot, but the employees are going to have to take a risk now to get what they want. It would take 50%+1 to get a nationwide vote for union certification. It is a long shot, but I really think this is about the only chance Express employees have of keeping their career and getting back their pension and compensation equity. If the employees wait for a change in labor classification, FedEx will jump the gun and transfer volume to Ground and there won't be anything left to negotiate. Express employees are going to have to do this under RLA rules and that won't be easy by a long shot.
This is where the Teamsters MUST step in and begin some organizing activity on the local level. If they wait for Congress, there won't be anything left to organize save some part-time Couriers (which would be "let go" the instant they try to bargain).
Another poster put forth the claim that if FedEx were to do this, why not do it now. Right now, FedEx is steadfastly holding onto the claim that every Express employee is an "airline employee". I personally haven't seen a FedEx jet in quite some time, can't jumpseat for travel, and cannot even go onto a ramp or hub secured area since my security "clearance" has lapsed to the "silver" sticker instead of the "gold" sticker - FedEx employees know what this means.
By keeping the volume within Express right now, FedEx has another "fact" to claim that all Express employees are "airline" employees. This completely ignores the fact that Express divides its US operation into two halves, AGFS and DGO, one of which is legitimately an airline under FAA definitions and the other is a package delivery service. If doomsday happens for Fred and Express loses its RLA status, look for a quickfire sequence of events regarding the structure of Express and the delivery of its volume within months. This is why Express employees that intend on staying need to really get the unionization ball rolling RIGHT NOW, to be able to fight this.
It is looking more and more like the Senate wants to break up the FAA bill into separate pieces of legislation. They want parts of it to go under Homeland Security, parts under DOT funding (airport expansion) and yet other parts under labor legislation. Right now it looks like HR 915 is firmly stuck in Washington politics and not moving anytime soon if at all. The language regarding FedEx's classification is a very low priority for Senate leaders right now (Fred's hand is in there I suspect). Another poster stated this may take months to finally get resolved and it does in fact look like he/she was right. A continuing resolution for the funding issues may be created so no interruption of operations occurrs for the FAA.
As long as Express maintains its RLA status, the transformation will occur slowly. Right now Fred doesn't want to give any ammo to his opposition regarding Express not being entirely an airline, but rather two distinguishable "companies" (AGFS/DGO). As long as the question of Express' RLA status is still in question, no major moves will happen regarding the structure of Express. If Express loses its RLA classification, look for Ground to undergo a massive expansion within months if not weeks of that change.
This is why Express employees can't wait for Congress to pull the RLA classification. The groundwork is already done within FedEx to accomodate a change in classification should that happen. Express isn't going to stand by and let NLRB rules allow union votes in stations without changing their "rules of the game". It would take months if not a year to organize signing of union cards and holding of elections in enough stations to make a dent into the Courier craft. By that time, non-overnight volume will be in the hands of Ground and the couriers voting to unionize will be faced with the prospect of becoming part-time employees. Fred will have won yet again.
Back in May I cautioned readers to wait to sign union cards until AFTER the RLA status was withdrawn. Now, I think it is necessary for those that intend on staying with Express to sign union cards NOW. It is beyond a long shot, but the employees are going to have to take a risk now to get what they want. It would take 50%+1 to get a nationwide vote for union certification. It is a long shot, but I really think this is about the only chance Express employees have of keeping their career and getting back their pension and compensation equity. If the employees wait for a change in labor classification, FedEx will jump the gun and transfer volume to Ground and there won't be anything left to negotiate. Express employees are going to have to do this under RLA rules and that won't be easy by a long shot.
This is where the Teamsters MUST step in and begin some organizing activity on the local level. If they wait for Congress, there won't be anything left to organize save some part-time Couriers (which would be "let go" the instant they try to bargain).
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