The information campaign

MrFedEx

Engorged Member
Richotta and MrFedex dont even work for Fedex.I think they use to and got fired and like to post here and bash Fedex.It brings them closure.I can only imagine what they look like in real life.

Yes, we don't work there. That's why we have exact and correct information each and every time we post...unlike you. As long as I've got you, please explain how your "retirement" station has the highest SFA score in the country, yet is full of "4-digit whiners" who hate FedEx. It doesn't make any sense, just like the rest of the lying crap you post.
 

Ricochet1a

Well-Known Member
From FedEx's own site:

Portable Pension Account​
For employees accruing benefits under the Portable Pension Account, the pension benefit accrued after
May 31, 2003 is expressed as a notional cash balance account. For each plan year in which a participant is
credited with a year of service, compensation credits are added based on the participant​
s age and years of
service as of the end of the prior plan year and the participant
s eligible compensation for the prior calendar
year based on the following table:

Age + Service on May 31 Compensation Credit​
Less than 55 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5%
55-64 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6%
65-74 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7%​
75 or over . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8%

So... for our hypothetical Courier, he'll have a 5% match for the first 15 years of his career, a 6% match for years 16-20 and a a 7% match for years 21-25.

Wow quadro, you were right. That makes all the difference in the world!!! A thousand apologies!!

An extra 1% of gross for 5 years and an extra 2% of gross for the last 5 years! This is going to be livin' large at the big house with that kind of money!!!!

Let's take our new hire with this data from FedEx.

Hired on June 2008 at age 25 at $15/hr.

Tops out at $37.19 in 2025

Let's see what those few percentage points difference got this employee?

With a straight 5% 2033= $138,118

With 5/6/7% 2033 = $154,882

You know, quadro is right.......an extra $16,764 balance as of 2033 ($8,021 in 2009 dollars). Living large, I see it.

Balance in 2043 upon retirement = $229,264 (this is with those extra 1 and 2 percentage points).

With just the 5% assumed before = $204,450

I see it, I see it, quadro was right.... an extra $24,814... makes all the difference!!!

Annuity of $229,264 invested at 5.5% with 20 year draw down to a zero balance

$1,577 monthly pension (2043 dollars) or $19,925 annual

This is $6,743 annual in 2009 dollars.

WOW!!! A FedEx pension after 25 years of service at age 60 of $6,743 in 2009 dollars. All hail quadro, shill extraordinare!!!

Quadro, you quibbled over an insignificant amount and you still are demonstrated to be false in your assertion that FedEx is offering a pension. PLEASE give it up. FedEx4Life, it looks like you signed on to the wrong list to peddle your dribble. Who is "owned" now.

To compare this to the traditional pension...

This employee would've had an average high of $105,000 when he retired in 2033. This would've granted a pension of $52,500 a year at age 60 ($18,683 in 2009 dollars). Someone definately got "owned" here (you sound like a 21 year old FedEx4Life). Let's play fractions for our shill:

$6,743/$18,683 = 36.09%

Our hard working Courier that hired in June 2008 will get just a fraction over 36% of what he would've received under the Traditional Pension Plan.

Why don't you two head back over to bailout.com and peddle your FALSEHOODS there?
 

MrFedEx

Engorged Member
I don't see anyone who is claiming that $70-$120 per month is a bona fide pension.


For those employees who have both pensions, they are double dipping. Calling an apple an orange doesn't make it an orange. Also, you are the only one who said anything about making out like bandits. No one has claimed that. UPS has more volume and more revenue. They can afford to pay more. And how big or small the lump sum is, if you even choose the lump sum which you don't have to do, depends on a lot of things. There will be many people who end up with a sizeable lump sum.


Never a truer word was spoken.

Yes, FedEx does call it a pension, as in Portable PENSION Plan...can your read? Double dipping? If the PPP actually was a pension that might be true, but it's not. Another inaccurate statement.

Your "analysis" that because UPS is bigger, they can pay more is moronic. They pay more because they have union-represented employees who demand a decent retirement plan. If the Teamsters weren't there, UPS management could and probably would be just as greedy as FedEx management. Isn't it amazing that a company "infested" with an evil union is so profitable? Could it be that the top execs at UPS are better managers who make less and don't fly around in a huge fleet of corporate jets? UPS is more productive and profitable, even with the Teamsters involved.

Calling a troll a shill doesn't make it a shill, so I'll just call you out as a troll for Fred, OK? Keep on posting, and I'll keep smashing your arguments flat.
 

vantexan

Well-Known Member
Thought I'd add a few points about the 2 pension plans.

The old plan, the traditional pension was figured this way: Take your 5 highest paid years, average them together. This is your "highest average annual pay." Let's say it's $50,000. Now take 2% of that number, which for this example would be $1000, and multiply by total years that you worked at least 1000 hrs. 25 years are the most years allowed for this calculation even if you worked 40. For this example you would receive at age 60 $25,000 annually. FedEx considers 60 the full retirement age although you can choose to not take your pension at 60 and continue to work. If you worked more than 25 years your 5 highest paid years will come out of all the years you've worked, not just the first 25. You may choose to take a reduced pension as early as age 55. Each year you take before age 60 will reduce the full amount by 3%. So at 55 your pension would be 15% less.

Some points about the new plan: there are 4 categories for funding your plan: 5%, 6%, 7%, 8%. Which category you are in depends on how many points you have. Points are determined by your age plus years of service. To get the maximum 8% you have to have 75 points. So a 50 year old with 25 years of service would get credits equal to 8% of his gross placed into his account. At the end of each quarter you would get 1% of what you have in your account added as interest. So 4% annually with some slight compounding.

A major problem with this plan is, besides the fact that it pays much less, is that most of it comes in later years. Under the old plan someone who started at 23 could decide at 48 that his 25 year pension is enough and he'd like to try doing something else. Under the new plan that 23 year old is looking at 5% a year for quite a few years. Most likely less than $2000 a year for a number of years. Under $3000 for quite a few more. If by the time he qualifies for the 8% he's making $50k annually that's only $4000 a year into his account. This plan forces people to work a long, long time to have enough to supplement anything else like Social Security or a 401k. Problem is that SS might not be there given 1. How much the current administration is spending and/or 2. The Republicans are trying to end it. The 401k plans depend very much on our ability to fund them, plus a company match, plus the stock market performance. The old plan was a sure thing, a foundation to build your retirement on. Not as good as some companies, but definitely better than what we have now.

I've been reading with interest some of the posts here. I've voiced my opinions on another forum against a union at this time for specific reasons. I believe Mr.FedEx used to post on that Forum and we have had some conflict. I'm not interested in fussing and fighting here, just wanted to add some clarity as I've seen statements all over the place about the pension. One more thing, under their current scheme, no one will top-out in 12 years. Newhires better plan on 25+ years, possibly 30, to catch top-out. Another consideration is that if FedEx takes away raises, like this year, it'll take even longer.

On edit I see Ricochet1a posted much of the same #'s just before I did. His chart illustrates how long it'll take to accumulate anything in the Portable Pension Plan.
 
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MrFedEx

Engorged Member
Man,Ricochet1a just got OWNED so hard in this thread.

Also did anyone else have to take that HOS test with the 70/8 hr rule?It was lame.

That's interesting coming from someone who gets OWNED every time he posts. Did you pass your HOS test or did your manager give you the correct answers?
 
O

olcc

Guest
Great information, Ricochet. I wish every employee could see your PPP analysis.

Back to the task at hand, here's what I had in mind. It's a PDF file within a ZIP file. Something simple, informative, and factual. No accusations, no mention of a union, just facts.

Comments, suggestions, additions?
 

Attachments

  • didyouknow.zip
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FedEX 4 Life

Well-Known Member
Yes, we don't work there. That's why we have exact and correct information each and every time we post...unlike you.
Its simple.Richotaa and Mr Fedex are the same fragg posting with 2 accounts.I like the way you 2 are always backing eachother up and cheering eachother on like 2 lil girls in 6th grade.
 

MrFedEx

Engorged Member
Its simple.Richotaa and Mr Fedex are the same fragg posting with 2 accounts.I like the way you 2 are always backing eachother up and cheering eachother on like 2 lil girls in 6th grade.


Oh no, we've been found out!! When I'm up against an incredible intellect like yours I need all the help I can to defend myself. Actually, I feel like I'm having a debate with a 6th grader when I deal with you. How did you pass the BST, or is that another FedEx acronym you don't know?
 

Broke

Well-Known Member
Most of us fedex workers would just like to make a livable wage and have our traditional pension back. Why is that so hard for all of you fedex defenders to understand? You come on here and try to spin everything and make it all sound so great. You always have some kind of hateful response to a reasonable post. I hope this bill passes so you won't be able to lie anymore about how great things are here at fedex. I can't wait to hear from you when station by station we all go teamster.
 

Ricochet1a

Well-Known Member
This is the spreadsheet both in Excel and Word format.

Assumptions:

25 Year old new hire in June 2008 at $15/hr.

No pay raise for 2009, 2% pay raise 2010, 5.5% annual pay raise until top out occurs.

No change in top end for 2009, 2% increase in 2010 and 3% increase in top end thereafter.

3% annual inflation rate

Full-time employee working 40 hour week plus 10% in OT wages

With the above assumptions, this employee has in 2043 $212,543. This equates to $77,800 in 2009 dollars. This will provide an annuity of $6,422 in 2009 dollars upon retirement at age 60 lasting 20 years until exhaustion at age 80.

All of this assumes FedEx will continue to operate for the next 25 years as it did over the past 25, which will not happen.

PPPs are intended to allow young employees that spend a short time with an employer to leave with a cash balance upon their termination of employment. Defined Benefit Pension Plans tend to reward long term career employees with a livable pension upon retirement age. The switch to a PPP is both less expensive for FedEx and reflects its future desire to have short term, part-time employees which will leave after 5-10 years of employment. FedEx is quickly transforming from a career job for wage earners into part-time employment for those who draw a wage.
 

Attachments

  • Excel PPP.zip
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  • PPP.zip
    8.5 KB · Views: 190

SmithBarney

Well-Known Member
I work with a 73 yr old courier(4 digit employee #) who plans to work until 75 because of the new PPP, not to mention his 401k tanked so he might even work longer...

poor guy.. they even offered him a desk job, but he turned it down... I think he might get
put on the chopping block soon... routes cutting and hour cutting.
 

quadro

Well-Known Member
Yes, FedEx does call it a pension, as in Portable PENSION Plan...can your read? Double dipping? If the PPP actually was a pension that might be true, but it's not. Another inaccurate statement.
It's called a pension plan because that's what it is by definition. Just because you don't believe it's a good pension plan doesn't change the fact that it's still a pension plan. Yes, technically, it's not double dipping but IMHO when you get paid from two different pension plans, it certainly meets the loose definition of double dipping.

Your "analysis" that because UPS is bigger, they can pay more is moronic. They pay more because they have union-represented employees who demand a decent retirement plan. If the Teamsters weren't there, UPS management could and probably would be just as greedy as FedEx management. Isn't it amazing that a company "infested" with an evil union is so profitable? Could it be that the top execs at UPS are better managers who make less and don't fly around in a huge fleet of corporate jets? UPS is more productive and profitable, even with the Teamsters involved.
Did you look at the last 10K statements? Take a look and tell me who has more money. When was the last time that employees got everything a union demanded? They can demand what they want, they get it because both sides agree to it. And I never said the union was evil. And you're correct, UPS is more productive and profitable.
 

quadro

Well-Known Member
From FedEx's own site:

Portable Pension Account
For employees accruing benefits under the Portable Pension Account, the pension benefit accrued after
May 31, 2003 is expressed as a notional cash balance account. For each plan year in which a participant is


credited with a year of service, compensation credits are added based on the participant
s age and years of

service as of the end of the prior plan year and the participant


s eligible compensation for the prior calendar

year based on the following table:


Age + Service on May 31 Compensation Credit
Less than 55 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5%
55-64 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6%
65-74 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7%



75 or over . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8%


So... for our hypothetical Courier, he'll have a 5% match for the first 15 years of his career, a 6% match for years 16-20 and a a 7% match for years 21-25.


Wow quadro, you were right. That makes all the difference in the world!!! A thousand apologies!!


Ok, Ricochet, I'm going to type this slowly so that you can understand it as I've already said it several times but you either are missing it or choosing to ignore it: I never said that the PPP was a good thing. Some people will benefit from it and some won't. I also never said that the percentage would make a big difference. I simply pointed out 2 errors in your original statement. 1. You don't get both pensions - we've established you do. 2. The PPP isn't fixed at 5% - you've finally acknowledged that fact also.


You know, all you had to do was say "mea culpa it's not locked at 5% but it really doesn't make a difference" and leave it at that.​



Instead, you and MrFedEx resort to ad hominem arguments. Here's the problem with that. I said I'm not very well versed in TVM calculations etc, and here was an opportunity for you to say "let me show you how it works and how it's probably not a good deal for you, and by the way, it's not locked at 5% but let me also show you how that makes little difference". You finally did that (for the most part) a few posts up. Now if you had done that in the first place, I would have had a lot more respect for what you had to say as it is clear, concise, makes sense, and educates me. Then when I hear other FedEx employees who are likely also not as well versed in this as you seem to be, I wouldn't hesitate to tell them what you've said and how they can get more information. Thus making for a stronger base of employees who are willing to fight for what's right because they understand the issues and won't get fooled by misinformation.​



Unfortunately, you and MrFedEx decide it's better to belittle people and alienate them rather than building strength.​



I realize that in a forum such as this that emotions tend to run high but doesn't it make more sense to try and educate people rather than alienate them? If people come in here to attack you, it's a lot easier to just ignore them. However, people such as myself who are trying to understand the big picture and try to have a respectful discussion are the ones you can convince if you respond respectfully.​



Just my 2cents.​



Oh, and I still am curious why no one has offered any explanation or more detail as to why the switch from DBPP to PPP occurred. And again, for anyone not paying attention, I'm not saying the PPP is good or bad as an overall plan, I'm just looking for discussion as to why the switch and what else could have been done.​



Why don't you two head back over to bailout.com and peddle your FALSEHOODS there?

And just for the record, you made the first false statements but I'm willing to let that go. :happy-very:
 
O

olcc

Guest
Made a few changes/additions.

Please print and spread the word! The only way we can convince FedEx employees of the benefits of union membership is by getting this information to as many people as possible. Link to this thread, give the flyer to coworkers, put it in dropboxes--JUST GET IT OUT THERE!!
 

Attachments

  • didyouknow.zip
    18.3 KB · Views: 189

Ricochet1a

Well-Known Member
Made a few changes/additions.

Please print and spread the word! The only way we can convince FedEx employees of the benefits of union membership is by getting this information to as many people as possible. Link to this thread, give the flyer to coworkers, put it in dropboxes--JUST GET IT OUT THERE!!

Be careful about doing this. This is considered to be solicitation by FedEx and will get one an instant warning letter if caught. Handing out copies to coworkers is one thing, but if you put your flyer into dropboxes and get caught you're looking at an indefinate suspension if not outright termination. FedEx could accuse you of a variety of offenses, including defacing FedEx property and solicitation during company time. FedEx doesn't play games with this; this is why most if not all of us stay anonymous.

All it would take would be two employees reporting you to management that you handed them your flyer on company time or property and you're cooked. Believe me, there are employees that would love to garner favor by reporting a union activist. If you are going to distribute "information" do it without anyone's knowledge at your station. Place them in employees' "mailboxes" in your station, go around and place them in the trucks when you know you aren't being observed. If you are fulltime, come in early and place them. If you are part-time pick-up, hang around after the shift and place them in the trucks or boxes. If you place them in trucks do so after PSTs so that they don't get thrown away.

I admire your enthusiam but advise caution.
 
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