Two Tier Driver....AKA Combo job

[Bubblehead]

This isn't accurate. The existing Package car jobs would be red circled under this proposal. So lets say there are 65,000 of them, they have to remain intact. Where the 22.4 jobs would come into play are separate. These would be combination jobs, Tuesday through Saturday and Sunday through Thursday. UPS is going to be a seven day delivery service eventually. The language has been there for quite a long time. These jobs could start at a variety of times. Here are a couple examples. You could start on the preload at 4 or 5 in the morning and then switch over to delivering some residential where the center is heavy. Here is another example. You start at 12 in the afternoon, delivering libs or bulk, then give some pickup relief for a guy/lady who has an 8 hour request or is going to be violated on there 9.5. Then give relief to the Twilight or reload operation. How about this one. You start at 5 Pm and you do the pickups that the majority of the members just don't want to do anymore, finishing up on the night sort. This counter proposal helps members with excessive overtime, 9.5, 8 hour requests, that crappy 70 hour junk, and I'm sure other issues down the road. Will USP bastardize it in some way, I'm sure, but we need to enforce the contract.


If this proposal makes it through, mark my words, Members will be trying to get out of package car jobs to get these. In a lot of places in the country a 22.3 job is a very sought after job.

Lets not lose sight of another factor in this equation. This could potentially turn into another 6 to 10 thousand full-time jobs that part-timers can use to make a better life. It will also decrease the membership a little, so the conspiracy theorist can run with this a little if they want.

So these 65,000 "red circled" will remain intact, while e-commerce is predicted to double in the next decade???

If that's the case, shouldn't this 65,000 number incrementally increase as well, rather than be "red circled"???

Secondly, and please tell me that these "red circled" jobs will not be subject to the same shell game that records and regulates the 22.3 jobs presently in place and where they exist by number,.....because it doesn't work.

In the end it's my opinion that this notion of a hybrid driver is a terrible proposal by our Union and will for all intensive purposes open Pandora's Box.

 

[1989]

So these 65,000 "red circled" will remain intact, while e-commerce is predicted to double in the next decade???

If that's the case, shouldn't this 65,000 number incrementally increase as well, rather than be "red circled"???

Secondly, and please tell me that these "red circled" jobs will not be subject to the same shell game that records and regulates the 22.3 jobs presently in place and where they exist by number,.....because it doesn't work.

In the end it's my opinion that this notion of a hybrid driver is a terrible proposal by our Union and will for all intensive purposes open Pandora's Box.

What if:
1. You could never have more than, let’s say 5%, combos working on a daily basis?

2. No combo can deliver if any ft driver is “laid off” including a driver in pre seniority.

So a 200 route building cannot have more than 10 combos delivering/pu. On a 199 route day only 9 combos can deliver/pu. On a 185 route day with 2 drivers laid off. No combos can deliver/pu.

We already have art.22 doing air pu and local sort/parking/etc. regardless if ft drivers are laid off.

 

[Tony Q]

So these 65,000 "red circled" will remain intact, while e-commerce is predicted to double in the next decade???

If that's the case, shouldn't this 65,000 number incrementally increase as well, rather than be "red circled"???

Secondly, and please tell me that these "red circled" jobs will not be subject to the same shell game that records and regulates the 22.3 jobs presently in place and where they exist by number,.....because it doesn't work.

In the end it's my opinion that this notion of a hybrid driver is a terrible proposal by our Union and will for all intensive purposes open Pandora's Box.

I respect your opinion and appreciate your thoughts on this subject. I never said I 100% agree on this proposal, as it was actually a counter proposal, outed by people on the negotiating committee that shouldn't have put it out there. I've taken the time to explain it a little. I know you and many can poke holes in these things all day. You can shoot the messenger all you want. I'm just trying to help people understand the logic.

 

[Tony Q]

but don’t get bit by the snake

When you are dealing with the teamsters long enough, we all get bit by the snake. Its the Nature of the business. Its a big garden full of snakes.

 

[wide load]

You can take me for what you think I'm worth. There are people who sit on these negotiating committees, right. Is it out of the realm that I could possibly know what is actually going on? Think about this. The world is not flat, it's actually round and Sean isn't the center of the universe. There are people that have been around as long as Sean or a lot longer, who this isn't their 1st, 2nd, 3rd or 4th rodeo. What I'm trying to make you understand is that all you hero's that you look up to aren't the end all. They feed off the Hoffa tit then go all rouge. You need to understand that there are a lot of flaws in this whole process, and the player are very flawed and hypocritical as well. Your guys is a hell of a union man, but the minute he made that deal with Fred was an error that will take a lifetime for a core group to forget about. Anyway, I'm rambling. You smell anything I'm cooking? Are you reading between the lines?

So then what’s the best option? Unfortunately when it comes to an elected official, who people feel will do the best job trumps seniority. I ask again, what is your outlook on what should occur? Hoffa retires and...

 

[Tony Q]

So then what’s the best option? Unfortunately when it comes to an elected official, who people feel will do the best job trumps seniority. I ask again, what is your outlook on what should occur? Hoffa retires and...

Hoffa retires yesterday, first. Hall and Sean cut the Crap and get along. Fred waits his turn, and they ALL QUIT SCREWING WITH THIS CONTRACT FOR THEIR OWN POLITICAL GAIN. This is about the members. Its not a bunch of grandstanding. They are making this about them. Is this enough of an explanation, or do you want me to give you some more. I mean this respectfully, I will go on if need be.

 

[silenze]

I understand and appreciate your perspectives, but you need to understand that a full scale service provider costs 60 dollars an hour and the next closest in the industry is in the 40's. You need to look deeper down the rabbit hole.

Are you UPS's accountant? Are they cooking the books? That 60$ an hour driver is making them billions in profit. They just got a huge tax break. They increased the dividend. And gave all supervisors a huge mip. Sorry if i believe that UPS can staff its operations with full rate drivers. They sure haven't provided any reason they can't. They just don't want to pay us. They want to pay themselves.

 

[wide load]

Hoffa retires yesterday, first. hall and Sean cut the Crap and get along. Fred waits his turn, and they ALL QUIT SCREWING WITH THIS CONTRACT FOR THEIR OWN POLITICAL GAIN. This is about the members. Its not a bunch of grandstanding. They are making this about them. Is this enough of an explanation, or do you want me to give you some more. I mean this respectfully, I will go on if need be.

I respect your outlook but, I feel like you are not looking beyond the next election. Didn’t you already say Hoffa and Hall are at odds? I’ve always been a Hall supporter but there are a ton of people (healthcare speaking) that aren’t confident in Hall anymore. Plus he had some of his own issues didn’t he?

 

[Tony Q]

I respect your outlook but, I feel like you are not looking beyond the next election. Didn’t you already say Hoffa and hall are at odds? I’ve always been a hall supporter but there are a ton of people (healthcare speaking) that aren’t confident in hall anymore. Plus he had some of his own issues didn’t he?

Hall was the highest vote getter in the last election. Hoffa should quite yesterday like I said. Hoffa hall are not getting back together. In my opinion, what I saw that they had on hall was nothing. Hall never threatened show producers, members, or anyone I've ever known. He has never been caught golfing on the employers or the IBT's dime in Ireland. He's never been recorded threatening members while campaigning. He has never had charges against him for threatening to beat ass on the convention floor with black vest wearing members. In my opinion if you would have told me someone would get together with Fred it would be hall. They are cut from the same part of Appalachia. Seeing Sean with Fred looks so awkward. I had a lot of respect for Fred until I saw him shacking up with a little bully. They are different kinds of people. One is a reformed anti establishment, while the other is the establishment. Sean is Hoffa what milk is to cookies. Honestly, the whole thing makes me want to puke.

 

[Tony Q]

Are you UPS's accountant? Are they cooking the books? That 60$ an hour driver is making them billions in profit. They just got a huge tax break. They increased the dividend. And gave all supervisors a huge mip. Sorry if i believe that UPS can staff its operations with full rate drivers. They sure haven't provided any reason they can't. They just don't want to pay us. They want to pay themselves.

Alright, I'll bite. Supervisors pay 5,000 dollar deductibles, their mip has been a huge bone of contention. The pension is frozen in 4 years. You think management is crushing it all the way to the bank? How much do you think it costs Amazon for their delivery drivers? Do you know the costs affixed to a DHL driver? How about a USPS, or a Fedex Ground? I doubt you can contemplate the cost difference.

Lets talk about what a Feeder driver costs compared to the competition. Thats not close either. UPS can make the money because they will jam a quarter through a dime, but competing with the USPS and their 14 dollar Sunday casual drivers is going to lead to some problems down the road. How much do you think it costs Amazon for their delivery drivers? It's somewhere in the neighborhood of 13 to 18 dollars an hour. I respectfully disagree with you pal.

 

[wide load]

hall was the highest vote getter in the last election. Hoffa should quite yesterday like I said. Hoffa hall are not getting back together. In my opinion, what I saw that they had on hall was nothing. hall never threatened show producers, members, or anyone I've ever known. He has never been caught golfing on the employers or the IBT's dime in Ireland. He's never been recorded threatening members while campaigning. He has never had charges against him for threatening to beat ass on the convention floor with black vest wearing members. In my opinion if you would have told me someone would get together with Fred it would be hall. They are cut from the same part of Appalachia. Seeing Sean with Fred looks so awkward. I had a lot of respect for Fred until I saw him shacking up with a little bully. They are different kinds of people. One is a reformed anti establishment, while the other is the establishment. Sean is Hoffa what milk is to cookies. Honestly, the whole thing makes me want to puke.

It may make you want to puke, but Sean will be your president in 3 years. I’m not here to change your mind. You’ve obviously expressed your feeling for Sean as a bully. You’ve expressed the Hall and Rome are none of those things. Well maybe members are sick and tired of officials that are pusillanimous.

 

[Tony Q]

It may make you want to puke, but Sean will be your president in 3 years. I’m not here to change your mind. You’ve obviously expressed your feeling for Sean as a bully. You’ve expressed the hall and Rome are none of those things. Well maybe members are sick and tired of officials that are pusillanimous.

I'll keep that in mind. Three years is a long time. We will have to see who keeps themselves out of trouble in the mean time. The way these teamsters operate, with all their scandals it might as well be 15 years. Only time will inevitably tell where the future goes. I'll hope for the best in the mean time and expect the worst.

 

[Tony Q]

It may make you want to puke, but Sean will be your president in 3 years. I’m not here to change your mind. You’ve obviously expressed your feeling for Sean as a bully. You’ve expressed the hall and Rome are none of those things. Well maybe members are sick and tired of officials that are pusillanimous.

I have one question for you. Do you like Fred?

 

[Bubblehead]

I respect your opinion and appreciate your thoughts on this subject. I never said I 100% agree on this proposal, as it was actually a counter proposal, outed by people on the negotiating committee that shouldn't have put it out there. I've taken the time to explain it a little. I know you and many can poke holes in these things all day. You can shoot the messenger all you want. I'm just trying to help people understand the logic.

I'm sorry Tony, I wasnt trying to challenge you....and am not aware of your "credentials"?

You speak as though you have "a seat at the table"???

....either way, I like you, am "trying to help people understand the logic".

 

[wide load]

I have one question for you. Do you like Fred?

I don’t really know him. I think he was smart enough to step aside for Sean. I liked him more when he had his motorcycle license plate.

 

[burrheadd]

This isn't accurate. The existing Package car jobs would be red circled under this proposal. So lets say there are 65,000 of them, they have to remain intact. Where the 22.4 jobs would come into play are separate. These would be combination jobs, Tuesday through Saturday and Sunday through Thursday. UPS is going to be a seven day delivery service eventually. The language has been there for quite a long time. These jobs could start at a variety of times. Here are a couple examples. You could start on the preload at 4 or 5 in the morning and then switch over to delivering some residential where the center is heavy. Here is another example. You start at 12 in the afternoon, delivering libs or bulk, then give some pickup relief for a guy/lady who has an 8 hour request or is going to be violated on there 9.5. Then give relief to the Twilight or reload operation. How about this one. You start at 5 Pm and you do the pickups that the majority of the members just don't want to do anymore, finishing up on the night sort. This counter proposal helps members with excessive overtime, 9.5, 8 hour requests, that crappy 70 hour junk, and I'm sure other issues down the road. Will USP bastardize it in some way, I'm sure, but we need to enforce the contract.


If this proposal makes it through, mark my words, Members will be trying to get out of package car jobs to get these. In a lot of places in the country a 22.3 job is a very sought after job.

Lets not lose sight of another factor in this equation. This could potentially turn into another 6 to 10 thousand full-time jobs that part-timers can use to make a better life. It will also decrease the membership a little, so the conspiracy theorist can run with this a little if they want.

That all sounds good in theory

In reality ups is trying to figure out how they can bastardize it. Like they have done with so many other contract issues

 

[Tony Q]

That all sounds good in theory

In reality ups is trying to figure out how they can bastardize it. Like they have done with so many other contract issues

Yeah, you know that just like you know what makes you tick. We all do. UPS is the Evil Empire. They are usually one step ahead of us in cutting our throat and making our ever coming demise a pure reality. You are spot on brother.

 

[Tony Q]

I don’t really know him. I think he was smart enough to step aside for Sean. I liked him more when he had his motorcycle license plate.

That is a funny yet politically safe response. Well played.

 

[Tony Q]

I'm sorry Tony, I wasnt trying to challenge you....and am not aware of your "credentials"?

You speak as though you have "a seat at the table"???

....either way, I like you, am "trying to help people understand the logic".

Your cordial, yet diplomatic response deserves a reply. I like you as well. You speak your mind and have passion. You question the man. I appreciate Teamsters like you, fighting the good fight. I have to get ready going. I have a busy week ahead of me trying to fight the good fight myself. Wont have much time for posting as I'll be be knee deep in the cause. I'll see you all in a week.

 

[wide load]

That is a funny yet politically safe response. Well played.

I think he was thrown to the wolves last election. It’s my understanding that he was initially running as a VP. Then Sylvester lost his local and Pope had some issue (can’t remember). But needless to say, he was very unprepared in his debate with Hall (haven’t seen Hoffa debate). Z never wanted to be president. And I think TDU is pissed about him stepping aside. And I’m happy about that. Not a fan of that group.