UPS can't compete because of high labor costs?

bbsam

Moderator
Staff member
We are not over-paid at the level of production we are expected to maintain.

However, I do believe we have reached the point where to ask for more is not possible. And only because we compete against a scofflaw company, FedEx Ground.

P.S. I would completely oppose a two-tiered wage system. It makes a mockery of the collective bargaining process. It should only be considered if the company threatens to shutdown for good because of proven catastrophic financial difficulties.
"Scofflaw"? I'd be offended if I weren't feel so delightfully complimented. And to think that there are those here who actually view us as any kind of competition and not just hack wannabes doomed to eventual failure. JimJimmyJames, you have made my day. Thank-you, sir.:happy-very:
 

40 and out

Well-Known Member
What is it with all this talk of concessions?. UPS is still making money,even in this lousy economy. Unless things get worse by 2013,why should we give any concessions? You people must have easier jobs than mine. I bust my butt everyday. I'm often amazed at the amount and fast pace of work I perform daily. I earn every cent I make and unless the economy totally tanks UPS can continue if not improve our wages and benefits.
 

soberups

Pees in the brown Koolaid
4 years ago, we had some high-level suit from Corporate out here to give us a pep talk for our PCM. He looked around at our group and told us..."in 5 years, one out of three of you here will be out of a job because of DHL's non-union cost advantage".

I'm still waiting.....
 

soberups

Pees in the brown Koolaid
Any debate over whether or not we are overpaid needs to factor in the wear and tear on our bodies and high statistical probability that many of us will require surgery in order to complete our careers.

To some extent I am sacrificing my future health and well-being in exchange for a larger benefit package today.

And from a purely economic point of view, any company that pays its employees more than what they are worth will not remain in business for long, much less make the profits that UPS has historically made.
 

bluehdmc

Well-Known Member
[QUO I would also not be surprised to see a two-tiered wage system proposed.

Could you explain how this would be done please?[/QUOTE]

UPS was one of the first companies to go to a "two-tiered" wage system, back around 1984 at least in NJ. I wasn't employeed here then, I also believe the Post Office did the same thing about that time. I think the difference was $.70 per hour which may have been in the neighborhood of 70%. Which was a reasonable difference then, of course as time and inflation have made that miniscule.
 

UnconTROLLed

perfection
4 years ago, we had some high-level suit from Corporate out here to give us a pep talk for our PCM. He looked around at our group and told us..."in 5 years, one out of three of you here will be out of a job because of DHL's non-union cost advantage".

I'm still waiting.....

DHL was the same union and local as UPS in this area.
 

GeorgiaBrown

Well-Known Member
If YOU are overpaid then that is your business.

I do not pretend to be going above and beyond any other driver in our center and, like most of us in this forum, I have been driving for many years. I will make my argument based on the time I have spent talking and watching various other customers and the work they get paid to do. We don't have the luxury of working from home or leaving early or pushing the 'papers' back into the inbox so they can wait til' tomorrow. We can't hole ourselves up in an office or corner of a building til' the storm passes and leave at our convenience.

No, we have a service based occupation that must be performed from point A to B on a daily basis regardless of how the truck was loaded, the truck is running, the driver is feeling, the traffic, the weather, the 15 minute COD's, the broken 2-wheeler, and, oh-yeah, 3 OCA's that I have to chase that adds an additional hour of drive time to my day.

Hey honey, tell the kids I will have to see them tomorrow since I won't be getting home til' 8:30. Again.

Overpaid?

Can you imagine telling a landscaper or mason that they have to move, lift, carry, drive, and sell the business during the course of the day while driving from point to point and then sticking some paper in their face saying that they didn't do it fast enough?? No, because it's unrealistic to expect those jobs to be done by certain times in inclement weather because of safety/injuries...

It's ok to expect it from us though.

Overpaid??

I don't think so...


Well said.......... and I'll bet many a poster has shaken his/her head in affirmation whilst reading it!:happy2:
 

Catatonic

Nine Lives
Any debate over whether or not we are overpaid needs to factor in the wear and tear on our bodies and high statistical probability that many of us will require surgery in order to complete our careers.

To some extent I am sacrificing my future health and well-being in exchange for a larger benefit package today.

Unfortunately, that is not a situation unique to the UPS driver. Many, if not most, physical jobs take their toll over the years including carpenters, fire fighters, soldiers, etc.
 

bumped

Well-Known Member
I sure don't feel overpaid on Christmas Eve when I'm out delivereing while families are eating their family meals, or are getting in their cars to go to the relatives.
 

JimJimmyJames

Big Time Feeder Driver
Isn't there already a two-tiered wage system with part timers that are red circled?

I was repsonding to the notion that a two-tiered wage system would be instituted that had people in the same job classification working at two different pay rates. Ofcourse, with everything else being equal such as both being classified full-time.

I do understand that some of us now get the "Q" rate, "plus 15", "plus 10", etc. that allows somewhat of a two tiered wage system at times. And believe me, I am against this also. But this was nothing but our fellow union brothers throwing future brothers under the bus in order to get a better contract.

"Scofflaw"? I'd be offended if I weren't feel so delightfully complimented. And to think that there are those here who actually view us as any kind of competition and not just hack wannabes doomed to eventual failure. JimJimmyJames, you have made my day. Thank-you, sir.:happy-very:

Scofflaw, only because of the fact that FedEx has so far successively manipulated the concept of "independent contractor" to include people working at jobs that resemble nothing of the kind.

As a direct result of this I am personally scared of FedEx Ground. If you guys are delivering packages using the three keys I feel a successful package delivery company uses (deliver packages fast, cheap and unbroken), the customer won't give a damn about the health, pension, or wages of the person doing the delivery. Just like FedEx Ground apparently doesn't.

If we can't compete, we are done. And if it takes not having a pension, healthcare, or what I consider a living wage, in order for my company to compete, than I will be done working for my company.
 

John19841

Well-Known Member
If we can't compete, we are done. And if it takes not having a pension, healthcare, or what I consider a living wage, in order for my company to compete, than I will be done working for my company.

I agree; If we were forced to give back I do believe my stance on UPS as a career would be altered into just "another job" until I found something better.

However, I honestly do not think UPS could sustain forcing us to give up enough that would cause that amount of outrage. I don't think they could survive if they convinced so many to leave. Nor do I think that they could survive by replacing us if we did decide to strike. UPS is set up too much like a military branch. Too much "go,go,go" Too much it' always your fault. too much BS. A normal person, paid a low wage, would not put up with what we do. If they could make the same amount working in some wharehouse, they'd say screw it. The customer would suffer. UPS would suffer. The whole corporate mentality would have to change if they wanted to get away with paying someone half what we make. ...And we all know how good corporate is at changing. At least when things need to be changed...
 

Catatonic

Nine Lives
I agree; If we were forced to give back I do believe my stance on UPS as a career would be altered into just "another job" until I found something better.

However, I honestly do not think UPS could sustain forcing us to give up enough that would cause that amount of outrage. I don't think they could survive if they convinced so many to leave. Nor do I think that they could survive by replacing us if we did decide to strike. UPS is set up too much like a military branch. Too much "go,go,go" Too much it' always your fault. too much BS. The whole corporate mentality would have to change if they wanted to get away with paying someone half what we make. ...And we all know how good corporate is at changing. At least when things need to be changed...

History points the other way.
When UPS decided to pay part-timers less (same pay now as 20 years ago) the production went down in the hubs and preloads and that has been accepted as the norm.
 

John19841

Well-Known Member
History points the other way.
When UPS decided to pay part-timers less (same pay now as 20 years ago) the production went down in the hubs and preloads and that has been accepted as the norm.

On the preload, production can go down and they have to add even an extra hour, the cost saved greatly outweighs the added expense. I get that, and it makes good business sense to me.

What doesn't make sense, is if they get in $15/hour guys and production goes down, they have to add more drivers. A lot more drivers. Sure, they can also cut benefits and pension contributions and save some money there. BUT, they need to buy more trucks, more insurance, more uniforms, etc. etc. Cost savings and cost expense pretty much cancel each other out. But the big thing is service. Service goes way down. WAY down. And UPS suffers. That to me does not make good business sense. UPS has been around a long time. Despite what we think, I'm pretty sure there's a guy or two at the top who knows this....At least I hope there is.
 

tourists24

Well-Known Member
as long as UPS is turning a nice profit, no way should we make concessions. We are not overpaid, we do a fine job and the company continues to turn a profit....
 

SmithBarney

Well-Known Member
You wouldn't be saying that if you lived in a high cost of living area...
Sure, in a lot of areas I bet the pay is outstanding, just realize that in a lot of areas, it's no more than average.

I lived in a very expensive area median home price 350-400k, rentals from 1100+ a month.
I was a Driver only two years in so not even topped out $17.70, and I was more than comfortable.(on my 650-800 a week)
 

UnconTROLLed

perfection
most people support their families on much less...
no argument here.

are you crazy? In many areas 17/hr (35k/year) is closer to poverty level than the mean income for an individual. perhaps in some small town in Oklahoma or Montana 17/hr is sufficient to support a family. In this area, you are in the poor house making under 50k/year with a family.
 

1989

Well-Known Member
I wouldn't mind seeing a pay freeze. A nation wide retiree medical plan would pay dividends. And maybe some stock options.
 

Brown287

Im not the Mail Man!
I live in Santa Clara County in the San Fransisco Bay Area, and let me tell you out here our wages are average at best. That said I would be the first to say that our pay is outstanding! For 30 dollars we get paid to take a package from the shelf of a truck to a porch, not bad if you ask me. As far as Fed-Ex is concerned, they are slow as well. My brother works for ground and they are slower then we are from what I can see. UPS can control cost by elliminating routes if needed and pulling stops from from one route to another. Well at Fed-Ex Ground thier routes are indivisual businesses that run regardless if its 100 stops or 50 stops. By the way not all ground drivers get paid the same, my brother gets $700 a week flat! No benefits no vacation and no sick days, also no overtime. The wage disparity is so great over at Ground that as a result they have high turn-over and have zero employee loyalty. So you could say that they are on the opposite side of the coin of us. So in closing I would like to say that I believe that the vast majority of us are very thankfull of what we have and what we get, and as a company we would all do what was best for the long-term viabillity of UPS.
 
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