UPS pilots asked for concessions we are next?

Discussion in 'UPS Airline / Gateway' started by happyboy, May 28, 2009.

  1. Coldworld

    Coldworld Bad mall cop...no donut!!!

    have you been to a mall lately....yes there are some sales going on but every time Ive been to the local malls they are PACKED!!!
     
  2. Coldworld

    Coldworld Bad mall cop...no donut!!!

    Yep, this was a MAJOR reason most folks came to ups in the first place. Wait until the economy gets better...good luck finding part time workers ...you're going to end up with all of the crackheads who work for a couple of days and quit...more turnover more money out the window!!
     
  3. Coldworld

    Coldworld Bad mall cop...no donut!!!

    please explain the gps language red!
     
  4. brownIEman

    brownIEman Well-Known Member


    Been going on constantly every time there are cost cutting measures. In fact, IE is one of the first Staff functions to see freezes and staffing cuts... not to worry.
     
  5. PobreCarlos

    PobreCarlos New Member

    coldworld;

    Re: your comment of.....

    "have you been to a mall lately....yes there are some sales going on but every time Ive been to the local malls they are PACKED!!! "

    .....Perhaps they are in your neck of the woods, but overall the malls are definitely suffering. I suggest you look at the financials of the nation's largest mall/shopping center operators (such as Simon, Weingarten Realty, etc) to see just how unlikely it is that the malls generally are "packed"....at least with shoppers. The numbers simply don't support such an observation.
     
  6. PobreCarlos

    PobreCarlos New Member

    Braveheart;

    Unfortunately, I think the things you're talking about would actually be more expensive from the company's perspective than wage increases. It hasn't been lost on management (generally, not just at UPS) that "organized" industry after industry in this country has been damaged (or even destroyed) by the loss of operating flexibility brought about by union work restrictions and/or "enhancements" more than wage liability (look at the foreign/domestic non-UAW auto operations vs. the UAW-organized competition, for example; the wages are very similar, but control issues are vastly different). I can't help but believe that, in the future - especially as long as FDX isn't organized - the company is going to go (albeit perhaps in a camouflaged manner!) for MORE control rather than less....even if it costs more in direct wages.

    Of course, a very good argument could be made that the reason things are as tight as they are is because the union has made it so; i.e. - an adversarial relationship breeds action/reaction. From my perspective, one only needs to look at at the unions historical "success" with such relationships to see how they've benefited the members. That, however, is a topic most Teamsters seem to want to post their blinders against.
     
  7. trplnkl

    trplnkl 555

    Care to give any examples on this with UPS/Teamsters?
     
  8. rod

    rod retired and happy


    My local mall is packed with people that are just wondering around . Some are just the same deadbeats that hung out there when the economy was good but now its mostly window shoppers that do it out of habit- even though they have very little money to spend. There are a lot of stores closing - in fact its just an empty shell compared to what it once was.
     
  9. trplnkl

    trplnkl 555

    I haven't been to our Mall in about three years, I have no idea how the stores are doing. I do know that the Mall driver is still two tripping everyday with full trucks.
     
  10. PobreCarlos

    PobreCarlos New Member

    trplnkl;

    Sure. Willing to give several. Hour assignments. Job assignments seniority instead of by most effective and/or capable. Wage adjustments according to ability. Promotion from f/t from p/t based on seniority. Grievance resolution expenses. Etc, etc....the list goes on and on.

    For example, "705" keeps talking about an arbitrator at panel hearings. Who ultimately (i.e. - one way or the other) pays for not only his direct costs, but for the havoc which he (at least half the time, which is the nature of "arbitration") causes? The union? Hell, the union has absolutely no resources of it's own (they're all generated by the employers), and hasn't any creative business history at all; it's never done anymore than parasite off of at best, and destroy at worst (again, more than a million Teamsters losing their jobs, and driving almost all the top 50 Teamster-organized LTL firms into bankruptcy has to say SOMETHING, doesn't it?).

    Just the extra effort of doing business with the Teamsters - and the incredible amount of adjustments needed to cope with the work restrictions and business inflexibility they impose - are a heavy burden on UPS. I'd maintain - as I think most management personnel would today - that those are a much more expensive problem to deal with than actual direct compensation.

    Think UPS management hasn't thought of that when considering putting TOFC's out there....or benefiting by sub-contracting rural delivery, etc? Have they found work arounds? Sure, but, meanwhile, the non-organized competition is often a step ahead....and would be even further ahead if it had more capable managment.

    Look at the maze YRCW has had to go through in order to try to cope with the financial problems it faces. Can it just make a business decision and implement it? Nope.....has to go through a "change of operations" procedure with the union. And, of course, by the time such a "compromised" change is implemented, the time in which such a change would be meaningful has already passed. Again, the list could go on and on.
     
  11. PobreCarlos

    PobreCarlos New Member

    trplnkl;

    In times past, UPS somewhat benefited from mild recessions, in that large consolidated freight shipments were often reduced to smaller "package" deliveries. I'm sure we're benefiting SOMEWHAT from that today....but not nearly enough to compensate for the lessening of the economy as a whole.

    In that vein, I think your use of the qualification word "still" is pertinent; he's "still" delivery the same...which is a far cry from the 15-20% gain we often experienced year-to-year in times past. And that "still" probably accommodates some "used-to-be" freight shipments as well, particularly since there's not much dispute (I believe) that retail freight shipments are WAY down.
     
  12. 705red

    705red Browncafe Steward

    Article 6

    Section 4
    (8) No employee shall be discharged on a first offense if such discharge is based solely upon
    information received from GPS or any successor system unless he/she engages in dishonesty
    (defined for the purposes of this paragraph as any act or omission by an employee where he/she
    intends to defraud the Company). The degree of discipline dealing with off-area offenses shall not
    be changed because of the use of GPS.

    Telematics qualifies as a succesor system. This is the national language that local 705 refused to allow in to our contract.​
     
  13. Braveheart

    Braveheart New Member

    First the vacation days used as single days would have to be approved in advance. 35 cents per hour times 40 hours plus overtime times 52 weeks times 100,000 drivers = about $86 million per year if there are only 100,000 drivers and if they only work 45 hours per week. Then there is the next raise added to that. And when you remember that they keep those raises for life not just one year. So the average driver stays 10 years that is $8.6 BILLION, 20 years it is $17.2 BILLION in savings.

    I am not asking for dollar for dollar trade off. Vacations are covered by cover drivers in our building giving the company a 15% pay discount. And not all employees would get the extra vacation only the drivers with more than 5 years. Also why not change from the 1, 2, 10, 15, 20, 25 and go to 1, 3, 5, 10, 15, 20. Those who already have 2 years are grandfathered in.

    Waiting 8 years for an improvement week is a joke. Many never make it to earn the 25 year improvement too!

    I talked to a fellow Teamster at a much smaller company and they get their vacations, days off etc quicker and at the 5 year mark I speak of. They make over $20 per hour and have medical too. No where near the stress and production pressure though.

    We are making a profit and do not need to give concessions. But if we are then we definitely should get something in return. I would rather have a better work environment than an extra $16 per week.

    We already make $50k-$70k per year. And because of that we are driven like sled dogs. Throw in the new flat rate boxes from the post office we are getting squeezed.
     
  14. beentheredonethat

    beentheredonethat Well-Known Member

    1. Being able to have helpers only at peak (at helper rate). Many areas esp malls could use a helper year round.
    2. Article 22.3 losing the flexibility of PT'ers and forcing in 2 PT shifts at 8 total hours.
    3. OT after 5 hours for PT.
    4. Most needed horus are early AM for Air, and later PM for pickups. Cost adv of FDX having flexibility for PT drivers and FT split shift helps to cover heavy portions of day.
     
  15. trplnkl

    trplnkl 555

    QUOTE=PobreCarlos;541729]trplnkl;

    Sure. Willing to give several. Hour assignments. Job assignments seniority instead of by most effective and/or capable. Wage adjustments according to ability. Promotion from f/t from p/t based on seniority. Grievance resolution expenses. Etc, etc....the list goes on and on.
    I'm not sure what you mean about "hour assignment". The main purpose of the seniority over "most effective and/or capable is for protection of the long term employee. The driver that puts in 15 years of hard labor, tearing up his body and can no longer be the "most effective". That aging driver that is not as capable as the 24 year old deserves a good job as much as the younger one. Because UPS will not do a thing for the employee that they are not forced to do. We all do the same work, maybe not at the same pace but everyone is different. If it were not for the grievance process, UPS would have a revolving door that spat out drivers that have slowed down due to age, they sure won't take care of any one but the top performers of the day. The grievance resolution expense would be near to nothing, if the company would just comply with the contract they signed. That is a list that goes on and on.
    For example, "705" keeps talking about an arbitrator at panel hearings. Who ultimately (i.e. - one way or the other) pays for not only his direct costs, but for the havoc which he (at least half the time, which is the nature of "arbitration") causes?
    I can't tell if you think the arbitrator at the panel hearings is a good thing or not. But I am willing to bet that the union people that negotiate the NMA on behave of the employees would Think it's a good thing. And again, If UPS would follow the contract as close as they want the employees to do, there wouldn't the need for an arbitrator.
    The union? Hell, the union has absolutely no resources of it's own (they're all generated by the employers), and hasn't any creative business history at all; it's never done anymore than parasite off of at best, and destroy at worst (again, more than a million Teamsters losing their jobs, and driving almost all the top 50 Teamster-organized LTL firms into bankruptcy has to say SOMETHING, doesn't it?).
    I look at the Teamsters as a necessary evil, in a manner of speaking, no much different than a lawyer that looks out for their clients best interest. I don't personally know the inside stories of these 50 LTL companies that have gone bankrupt while under contract with the Teamsters. I think there is suspicion that some of them folded due to poor management and/or other reason that effected the bottom line along with a union contract. I guess there are several was one could spin this subject to say whatever you want it ti say.

    Just the extra effort of doing business with the Teamsters - and the incredible amount of adjustments needed to cope with the work restrictions and business inflexibility they impose - are a heavy burden on UPS. I'd maintain - as I think most management personnel would today - that those are a much more expensive problem to deal with than actual direct compensation.
    Well of course most management would rather not deal with the union, no bully wants anyone to stand up to them to prevent harassment or to keep them from doing just anything they please regardless of how it effects the worker. I mean after all, the the lines are full with people wanting to take our places. Right? How many applicants do you think would be lining up if UPS paid 10 bucks an hour?

    Think UPS management hasn't thought of that when considering putting TOFC's out there....or benefiting by sub-contracting rural delivery, etc? Have they found work arounds?
    I think UPS has personell on staff whose primary job is to find "workarounds"(loop holes) to avoid compling with a contract they signed, the promises they made, no intentions of keeping them.
    Sure, but, meanwhile, the non-organized competition is often a step ahead....and would be even further ahead if it had more capable managment.
    That's must be why UPS feels the need to spend millinos of dollars (that they wouldn't have if not for the blood, sweat and tears of hard working union employees) to make the playing field a little more level.

    Look at the maze YRCW has had to go through ...<snip>...has to go through a "change of operations" procedure with the union. And, of course, by the time <snip> change would be meaningful has already passed. Again, the list could go on and on. I don't know what YRCW is, so I can't comment on that.
    Our "change of operations proceedure" is, again, to protect the working man/woman that would be left out in the cold without a coat so UPS could make an extra .0001% profit on a given route. And THAT list can go on and on.
    [/QUOTE]

    My bottom line here is, I want UPS to remain profitable, which at this time it still is. But don't ask me the make concessions when the CEO is getting a 5 Million dollar bonus for a job well done. As long as UPS is making billions in profit, don't ask me to forfit a 30 cent an hour raise. The life style of the rich and famous is not for me, but I don't want to live in shack on the wrong side of the tracks either. And don't try to spoon feed me a bunch of crap and tell me it's chocolate pudding.
     
  16. trplnkl

    trplnkl 555

    Everything you mention here are things that the company felt they could live with, or they would have negotiated in a different manner. Don't forget, it was the employees of Central States that had the "gun to their head" to agree to the early contract. Which allowed UPS to sneek by provisions that were not in our best interest. Such as the over 9.5 committee for one example.
    I have a problem with the word flexibility, that's just PC for screwing part timers with split shifts that change with the blowing of the wind. UPS wants to keep someone on the line to work when they want them to with no regard of how that would ill effect the worker. If they could they would force a PTer to hang around the building all day and only pay them when they are actually holding a box. I hear alot of " come here and make us millions while we pay you squat". I don't know many people that can afford to spend all day at work but only get paid for 4-5 hours @ minimum wage, could you?
     
  17. 705red

    705red Browncafe Steward

    The cost is split monthly between UPS and the Teamsters, no matter if they are used or not. Through the first 5 months of this year we have heard 8 cases and the union has won 7 out of the 8. Out of the 5 months only 2 months had discipline cases and no discipline cases for the other 3 months.

    Over the last 5 years we would have averaged between 6 to 8 discipline cases a month and as of right now its 8 out of 5 months. This is the best money that any union could spend. It has cut down on the BS terminations and no one gets dragged through the mud waiting for 2 years for an arbitration case.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 3, 2009
  18. Coldworld

    Coldworld Bad mall cop...no donut!!!

    So, you have no gps lanuage at all in the contract???Looks like this needs to be addressed on a national level on the next contract..along with much better employee relations language.
     
  19. airbusfxr

    airbusfxr New Member

    I talked to several MD11 pilots and the MOU results along with the company's rebuttal should be FRIDAY AT HIGH NOON. Good luck because pilots are going to need it.
     
  20. Meliorate

    Meliorate Guest

    UPS and the Independent Pilots Association (IPA) reached an innovative tentative agreement today that averts any immediate furlough of our pilots.

    Earlier this year, UPS reviewed volume reductions and the need to furlough pilots. IPA’s leadership offered to identify ways to cut operational costs. UPS and the IPA subsequently agreed on cost-cutting targets totaling $131 million over the next three years. Without immediate cost-cutting, we would have had to indefinitely furlough 300 pilots.

    Using a variety of voluntary steps, the IPA to date has identified savings totalling approximately $90 million dollars pending final calculations. Although the full three-year goal was not reached by last week’s original June 2 deadline, UPS and the union have agreed there will be no furloughs through April 1, 2010, and that the IPA will continue to work this year to produce additional savings.

    Voluntary pilot savings generated later this year could eliminate the proposed layoffs entirely. Based on the Memo of Understanding, the company also has the right to reevaluate the possibility of furloughs if additional flight reductions occur in the future. Should this occur, UPS and the IPA plan to meet again to discuss the mitigation of possible future furloughs.

    The savings have been produced through voluntary programs such as pilots taking short- and long-term leaves of absence; military leaves; job sharing; reductions in flight pay guarantees; early retirement, and sick bank contributions. We are confident we can achieve the total savings goal.

    This is another example of UPS working with its unions to achieve a mutually beneficial outcome. The agreement will help ensure our company remains strong through this economic downturn and is positioned to emerge even stronger when the economy rebounds.

    Source
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 8, 2009