UPS should replace the entire fleet with non union workers.

Loyal Teamster

Well-Known Member
When and if is the big question. And I'd be more then happy to take less than the average driver but being a driver is a long dead dream. 20 dollars plus benes, I feel is more then enough for a no skilled no education job... let's be honest, that way my harder working part-time brothers can get a piece of the pie.


Yes, We are the great Brotherhood of Teamsters.
 

Bagels

Family Leave Fridays!!!
When I went driving after 3 1/2 years I went to class with folks that had 5,6,7 or more years. There had not been the demand for drivers but UPS opened two buildings and there was the need.

When I went feeder 6 1/2 years later it was because of retirements and the opening of a new building and there was a need.

Location. I live an hour outside of Chicago, a huge metro area with numerous large hubs. Large buildings = large numbers of drivers. I've driven no less than an hour, even as a ptimer, to work for UPS. My hometown building has only 30 some drivers. I didn't apply there. Small building = less need.

Look at the economy over the years and corresponding volumes. Volume = need.


There are many factors other than what year it is. Got hired on the downslope of the economy? Live in po'dunk USA? No large hubs? Type of driving in your area leads to slow turnover and retirement? What affects you doesn't affect others. But crying about others that put in their time or the total of their paycheck, which unless you're Gandhi you would take in a heartbeat, will do little else than make you look like a spoiled child and draw animosity from others.

In fairness, a very much YMMV situation. I work in one of UPS's largest facilities in the country, and the wait to go into driving here is about 15 years. In the two buildings closest to mine (10 minutes & 25 minutes away) the wait is about 10 years and 5 years respectively.

That said, he has a valid point. Many of the "old timers" on here haven't searched for a job in 25 or more years, and the experiences they relay on here reflect that era. Especially in the past 20 years, companies have been aggressively eliminating FT jobs in favor of PT ones that typically pay less than half the hourly wage, do not include benefits but require the employee to work a "more than PT" workload. We're seeing this in professional jobs now, in which schools, police departments, etc. are taking advantage of the vast labor pool to hire cheap. FT jobs not requiring an education are rare, and the ones that exist typically don't pay well / do not include benefits.

One of my buddies hired into UPS in the mid-to-late 1970s as a PTer earning about $12/hour. He's always "whining" to me that his 20-year-old son won't move out, and he can't understand because when he was 18, he worked at UPS, bought a car & home, etc. Pretty stunning to think that 35 years later, UPS is paying 30% less -- nor do we work the 8-hour days that were common then, instead being chased from the building in 3 hours or so.

I cringe when I read postings from "old timers" telling the youth on here 'go get a FT job -- $8.50 is fair for a 3-hour, PT job (that has 8-hour physical & mental fatigue)' and then in their next post write """waaahhhhh, $32+/hour isn't enough for what I do, wahhhhhhhhh." Pure hypocrite.
 

BrownArmy

Well-Known Member
cringe.gif

Easily in the top-ten list of creepiest things I've ever seen.

Well-played, sir.
 
I cringe when I read postings from "old timers" telling the youth on here 'go get a FT job -- $8.50 is fair for a 3-hour, PT job (that has 8-hour physical & mental fatigue)' and then in their next post write """waaahhhhh, $32+/hour isn't enough for what I do, wahhhhhhhhh." Pure hypocrite.

I'll be the first to tell you that $8.50 for just about every UPS pt position is absolute horse****e when you factor in what the must do to their bodies and minds to earn it. Just the fact that starting wages have only gone up $.50 since I started 27 years ago is pathetic. Do they deserve more dollars to start, absolutely.

As far as the $32 I make in my position as a feeder driver, thank you very much. Do I think I earned it putting up with everything I have in those 27 years? Yes. Did I say 26 years ago to a senior employee that I should have what he had without putting in the time or doing whatever it took to put me in a position to get it? No. I saw it as a goal, something to strive for. I drove an hour each way to a large hub as a ptimer until a driving spot opened. I drove an hour and forty five each way until a feeder spot opened. I still drive an hour , and went to three hubs, to stay with that position and put my time in until I'm now a senior driver at my building. It was never just handed to me. There have been ****ey jobs on the way up. Less pay on the way up. Crap routes. Crap hours. But if you want it you stick with it or go find that greener grass elsewhere.
 

didyousheetit

Well-Known Member
When and if is the big question. And I'd be more then happy to take less than the average driver but being a driver is a long dead dream. 20 dollars plus benes, I feel is more then enough for a no skilled no education job... let's be honest, that way my harder working part-time brothers can get a piece of the pie.
I'm sorry, but a driver has to fix all your mistakes as a preloader.When you misload packages we must run them on top of our route when we are trying to get in to see childs baseball or softball game by 730 pm. ptmer's just up leave when their time is up, when for the last 20 minutes you've done nothing but stacked outside of truck. If your not at least in preload you're not even worth talking to. I talked with my wifes uncle he was a driver years ago back then they did their own loading, wish we could do that again at least it would be right.
 

Bagels

Family Leave Fridays!!!
I'll be the first to tell you that $8.50 for just about every UPS pt position is absolute horse****e when you factor in what the must do to their bodies and minds to earn it. Just the fact that starting wages have only gone up $.50 since I started 27 years ago is pathetic. Do they deserve more dollars to start, absolutely.

As far as the $32 I make in my position as a feeder driver, thank you very much. Do I think I earned it putting up with everything I have in those 27 years? Yes. Did I say 26 years ago to a senior employee that I should have what he had without putting in the time or doing whatever it took to put me in a position to get it? No. I saw it as a goal, something to strive for. I drove an hour each way to a large hub as a ptimer until a driving spot opened. I drove an hour and forty five each way until a feeder spot opened. I still drive an hour , and went to three hubs, to stay with that position and put my time in until I'm now a senior driver at my building. It was never just handed to me. There have been ****ey jobs on the way up. Less pay on the way up. Crap routes. Crap hours. But if you want it you stick with it or go find that greener grass elsewhere.

Don't take my posting the wrong way -- I feel you're entitled to the wage you earn. And in the 13 years I've worked PT, I've double-shifted, driver helped and pulled a couple hundred routes seasonally. I input my hours (separated by job) into Excel, and throughout most of my career here, I've averaged 40/hours per week - for many years, slightly more. But all as a "PTer" never grossing more than $30K. And I've always done this while juggling a second, low-wage job... most recently, after UPS purged our hours, I went to work for McDonalds as a 28-year-old earning $7.25/hour. When I've done seasonal driving, which is now nearly a $6/hour pay cut for me, I've pulled the worst routes in the facility, taking more stops than the regular driver. And you know what? It's a huge relief compared to my "day" jobs.

My whole point is that while I acknowledge you've made sacrifices in your career, the current generation of PTers have it much harder. They'll work 3.5-hours per day, starting near minimum wage, for up to 15 years -- heck, maybe even longer now that half the year is a free period & the union has given concessions for increased usage of TCD (*I believe it's a de facto two-tier pay system that will effectively reduce the number of FTers). Then they'll undergo a four year wage progression -- which will likely lengthen again (and again) -- somebody hiring in their mid-20s will be in their mid-40s before they ever see top rate. And that's fine, because if top rate holds & continues to keep pace with inflation, the rewards are huge for a group of people who otherwise wouldn't make anything close to that wage.

But some of the "old timers" really need to stop telling the PTers 'it's just a PT job, go find a "real" job if you want to make more than $8.50/hour.' The reality is, if many FTers lost their job for whatever reason, they'd discover that the only "real" job they'd be qualified for that's available is flipping burgers for $7.25/hour.

We respect what you went through, some of you need to respect what we're going through.
 
My whole point is that while I acknowledge you've made sacrifices in your career, the current generation of PTers have it much harder

I think the position of ptimers is the same. The work is the same. The abuse by some management is the same. The wait for advancement is the same. It's the $8.50 wage in today's world that makes it harder.
 
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No part time employee hired in the 1970's made $12.00 an hour. I started 33yrs ago at $8.50. I for one am willing to freeze the full time driver wage so that all new hire partimers starting wage is $15.00 an hour with benefits. By 2017 the nation wide minimum wage will be $10.00 an hour. what does that say for the new contract?
I am noticing here in the language that I read a sence of fear in the Union ranks. Partimers against fulltimers, young employees against old. I think this happens when there is no real Unoin leadership. We here stories about what other people in our industry are making and it scares some people. And when we continue to vote in contracts that disregard the part time workers. Contracts that allow for a driver to make his full wage after 4 yrs and within those 4 yrs they cannot file an excessive overtime greivence. From the mouth of a manager who works for UPS work comp " shoulder surgeries and knee surgeries are on the rise". This individual was a center manager and we came to the same conclusion, that the volume and the amount of stops on the truck has dramatically increased.
So if you plan to go to full time driving, you will not be able to file 9.5 greivence for 4 yrs, and in those 4 yrs you could get hurt!
Imagine 11 to 12hr days 5 days a week with no recourse. Do you think you will last 33 yrs to collect a pension? NO!
​VOTE NO ON THIS CONTRACT! So ...they go back to the table and renegotiate. It does'nt have to be a strike.
 
Another example of us being viewed as machines.

I'll tell you what, take 25% of the workload off, and I'll sign this contract.
I have heard drivers say they would take a pay cut if the work load would lighten up. They are dreaming. Just look at PT. $8.50 and the company still works us like dogs.
 

UPS_Broken_Dreams

Active Member
When and if is the big question. And I'd be more then happy to take less than the average driver but being a driver is a long dead dream. 20 dollars plus benes, I feel is more then enough for a no skilled no education job... let's be honest, that way my harder working part-time brothers can get a piece of the pie.
I'm sorry, but a driver has to fix all your mistakes as a preloader.When you misload packages we must run them on top of our route when we are trying to get in to see childs baseball or softball game by 730 pm. ptmer's just up leave when their time is up, when for the last 20 minutes you've done nothing but stacked outside of truck. If your not at least in preload you're not even worth talking to. I talked with my wifes uncle he was a driver years ago back then they did their own loading, wish we could do that again at least it would be right.

Nothing personal but your family issues are irrelevant to the topic at hand. I'm pre-load sort isle and the mistakes are in numerical order, I'd be correcting them with a smile for what you make. No doubt misloads are a bitch but guess what? Nothing in this worlds perfect, suck it up for the amount of money your compensated. I'm sure quality of work would improve if our hourly wages were raised. What do you expect for 8.50 hr? The union doesn't protect Ptmers, UPS ****s all over us and your complaining about misloads. You get what you pay for. If UPS expects to take advantage of the part time work force at least increase the wages, hell freeze the raises! Bc this new generation doesn't give a **** about your miniscule raises that only amount to something after decades of hard labor! /rant over
 

Newfire

Member
Hope you all read Zorro in hell's post. He's right, shoulder and knee injury and surgeries are on the rise and the new improved greatest contract ever or so our union is telling us has new language in it. See article 3 section 3 part(e) that states when an employee is injured ON or OFF the job or because of an illness and reaches Maximum Medical Improvement his\her seniority shall be considered broken which means your terminated!!! Understand that? Even all of you who are not injured or sick and never plan on being injured or sick watchout! I too never planned on injuring my knee joint after pounding away for 26 years but it happened and now here I am sitting at home after reaching Maximum medical improvement absolutely not 1 penny of disability or workers comp coming in because they cut off comp pay when you reach MMI and as you all know UPS will not let you return to work with restrictions you must be !00% and now with new language in contract you will also be fired when you reach MMI. So work safe oh yeah and don't get hurt off the job or get an illness that might lead to an MMI rating because you will be terminated. It's your vote make it count!!
 

Newfire

Member
As far as replacing entire fleet with non union workers we only need to replace the workers like you who post these comments obviously you haven't been as dedicated and then ***** on like some of us long term employee's who have been used and abused time and time again. But then again the union will protect and help YOU who thinks we should all be non union.
 
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