UPS Uprising at Local 952!

[Inthegame]

...As for me, once this contract is settled, and you and I are stuck with crappy insurance, the membership will be outraged and the call for change will be the conversation throughout all our southern california hubs.

Good luck crossing your fingers waiting for the "carve out".

Peace

TOS

So when the contract is settled and everyone is content with the insurance coverage, you'll launch Plan B?

 

[The Other Side]

So when the contract is settled and everyone is content with the insurance coverage, you'll launch Plan B?

Anything less than what we currently have will be unacceptable at any level to the members. No need for plan B. If there was hope that the Teamster offered plan was going to be acceptable, we wouldnt have voted by an 80% rejection rate to kill it.

The IBT and local unions hope of the members voting in the blind FAILED, and it will fail a second vote next week.

Stay Tuned.

Peace

TOS

 

[LagunaBrown]

How many times have you been told already that "WE" agree that the local "isnt" in bankruptcy, but on the way, heading, looking like, most probable and most likely going to be in bankruptcy unless the Joint Council acts and your local is split and dissolved.

Looking and Probable? Hmmmmmm Are you and Economist? Maybe a Psychic? What are your credentials again? You do know "WE" are in local 952 and "YOU" are not.

The "great recession"... is this your battle cry for your leadership?
Do you even know what a recession is? Cause, apparently you dont since the official "recession" ended in late 2009 when GDP went positive.


ncpa.org

Unemployment, Housing and Industrial production did not show signs of Economic recovery till 2012 and California one of the hardest hit by the recession. Do you know what you are talking about?

As for real estate holdings. Yes, the local owns "millions" of dollars of property, but thats on PAPER. If the local bought a piece of property back in 2003 for 1.5 million, today , that property is less than a million and closer to 800K. If it was sold genius, the local would LOSE another 400K.

This is a great example to show how dumb you sound..... Our local is old and bought property well beyond 2003. So if we bought the property in the 50's how much would we have "Genius". LOL!!!!!!!!! Here is a bit of 952 history for you just in case you want to transfer. http://articles.latimes.com/2003/jul/30/local/me-kearney30

Holding property and selling it to stay afloat are two entirely different things.

What property have they sold?

Losing 2 staff members isnt going to make up several hundred thousand dollars in deficits. Just because a Non Profit is called a Non Profit, that isnt a green light to lose money ya goof.

2 staff members close to 200,000 who you calling a goof?

Its time to quell the piehole and let the members decide the fate of local 952. The only problem is, as the election moves forward, if it looks like PK and the boys may go down, the Joint Council will act first, place the local into trusteeship, cancel the election, appoint a trustee and then decide whether or not to hold new elections or dissolve your local alltogether.

This is great your telling me to quell a piehole when you are not in my Local and have a "Troll" tag next to your name. Yup, you are getting owned and I am under your skin.

NO local has the right to lose money. NO local has the right to run a business into the ground while wasting Union dues money OWNED by the members.

Millions in property, 200k in cuts and your using data from a recession. You are begging for attention.

You may think so, but then again, you hand out donuts.

Really? Your gonna make fun of me for holding parking lot meetings with my business Agents and having donuts and coffee for the members? Someone needs a hug.

Peace

TOS

 

[realbrown1]

Lol!!! I was at the nomination meeting today and only 4 of the 7 Reformers on their slate were there. They got laughed at a few time but mostly for not knowing how to accept nominations. Do you really think anyone wants clueless leaders? Once again I give you valid information and all you give is an opinion.........You can hype it up all you want but you are not a member of 952 and got your own business to worry about at 396. Thanks for trying though.

So when the contract is settled and everyone is content with the insurance coverage, you'll launch Plan B?

We only had 4 because our guys wanted us to enjoy our 3 day weekend and had the nomination meeting covered. Nice of P.K. to hold the nomination meeting on the Sunday of Labor Day weekend, huh?
What insurance? Teamcare or tbe MOU? Trust me, both are inferior to what we have now.

 

[realbrown1]

Your signature is a joke. You act like you are a martyr. Actually you act like you are one of the great ones. Lol. You do realize this is a website/message board? Right? With a signature like this it's like you guys are apostles and TOS is Jesus. Lol. I'd delete that one its freaking hilarious.

Don't be hating.

 

[Anonymous 10]

Get ready for the team are. If you want ill get you a teamcare shirt.

 

[LagunaBrown]

We only had 4 because our guys wanted us to enjoy our 3 day weekend and had the nomination meeting covered. Nice of P.K. to hold the nomination meeting on the Sunday of Labor Day weekend, huh?

More reform B.S.! The other slates found it important to make it, even members were there! Your nominated President, Vice President and Recording Secretay were no shows to go on vacation? I am sick and tired of your excuses, lies and propaganda. If you guys cared you would have used the last 3 years to learn the crafts but you didnt. You all took a vacation from the local and now you think people care about the reformers? The only supporters of your slate was you four. How are you not embarrassed when 96% of the hall laughed at you guys? You really do belong with D cause you just don't get it. I been warning you on here but you choose to follow a bunch of misfit and you get what you deserve.

 

[Mark Rauzon]

What a bunch of crap. All you do is complain about the Local not doing their job but you're slate can't even show up for something as important as nominations. And it doesn't matter what day it is on YOU'RE slate should be there. Nothing but excuses and whining. This sure sounds like the crap brownj67 spread around last election. Here we go with the whine merry go round.

 

[realbrown1]

What a bunch of crap. All you do is complain about the Local not doing their job but you're slate can't even show up for something as important as nominations. And it doesn't matter what day it is on YOU'RE slate should be there. Nothing but excuses and whining. This sure sounds like the crap brownj67 spread around last election. Here we go with the whine merry go round.

I think you are confused. Have you been confused a lot lately?

 

[realbrown1]

More reform B.S.! The other slates found it important to make it, even members were there! Your nominated President, Vice President and Recording Secretay were no shows to go on vacation? I am sick and tired of your excuses, lies and propaganda. If you guys cared you would have used the last 3 years to learn the crafts but you didnt. You all took a vacation from the local and now you think people care about the reformers? The only supporters of your slate was you four. How are you not embarrassed when 96% of the hall laughed at you guys? You really do belong with D cause you just don't get it. I been warning you on here but you choose to follow a bunch of misfit and you get what you deserve.

How are you not embarrassed at the state that P.K. has let our local finances fall to. We are almost bankrupt. But you still stick your head in the sand and ignore all the facts.
And what's going on with the MOU? I hear letters are going out saying on Jan 1, 2014, that UPS will end company coverage and we will be transitioned to TEAMCARE. Is this true? It is so difficult to get any imformation out of Hoffa or P.K. that I cannot find out if it effect us in the southwest. Do we have a carveout that will happen or not?

 

[LagunaBrown]

How are you not embarrassed at the state that P.K. has let our local finances fall to. We are almost bankrupt. But you still stick your head in the sand and ignore all the facts.
And what's going on with the MOU? I hear letters are going out saying on Jan 1, 2014, that UPS will end company coverage and we will be transitioned to TEAMCARE. Is this true? It is so difficult to get any imformation out of Hoffa or P.K. that I cannot find out if it effect us in the southwest. Do we have a carveout that will happen or not?

Go back and re read my posts and hopefully you absorb it this time.

 

[The Other Side]

Go back and re read my posts and hopefully you absorb it this time.

Oh yeah, it was the great recessions fault. "We" forgot to accept that part, even though its a spending problem at 952 and not a revenue problem as the dues money sent to the local each month didnt decrease vs the increase in spending.

But, you would have us believe that recieving the same monies and then overspending those monies is the fault of the BUSH recession.

Ok LB, im sold.


Peace

TOS

 

[stink219]

Go back and re read my posts and hopefully you absorb it this time.

LB, they are using disinformation tactics. Don't let it bother you. Does this sound like a couple of posters on here?

1) Avoidance. They never actually discuss issues head-on or provide constructive input, generally avoiding citation of references or credentials. Rather, they merely imply this, that, and the other. Virtually everything about their presentation implies their authority and expert knowledge in the matter without any further justification for credibility.

2) Selectivity. They tend to pick and choose opponents carefully, either applying the hit-and-run approach against mere commentators supportive of opponents, or focusing heavier attacks on key opponents who are known to directly address issues. Should a commentatorbecome argumentative with any success, the focus will shift to include the commentator as well.

3) Coincidental. They tend to surface suddenly and somewhat coincidentally with a new controversial topic with no clear prior record of participation in general discussions in the particular public arena involved. They likewise tend to vanish once the topic is no longer of general concern. They were likely directed or elected to be there for a reason, and vanish with the reason.

4) Teamwork. They tend to operate in self-congratulatory and complementary packs or teams. Of course, this can happen naturally in any public forum, but there will likely be an ongoing pattern of frequent exchanges of this sort where professionals are involved. Sometimes one of the players will infiltrate the opponent camp to become a source for straw man or other tactics designed to dilute opponent presentation strength.

5) Anti-conspiratorial. They almost always have disdain for 'conspiracy theorists' and, usually, for those who in any way believe JFK was not killed by LHO. Ask yourself why, if they hold such disdain for conspiracy theorists, do they focus on defending a single topic discussed in a NG focusing on conspiracies? One might think they would either be trying to make fools of everyone on every topic, or simply ignore the group they hold in such disdain.Or, one might more rightly conclude they have an ulterior motive for their actions in going out of their way to focus as they do.

6) Artificial Emotions. An odd kind of 'artificial' emotionalism and an unusually thick skin -- an ability to persevere and persist even in the face of overwhelming criticism and unacceptance. This likely stems from intelligence community training that, no matter how condemning the evidence, deny everything, and never become emotionally involved or reactive. The net result for a disinfo artist is that emotions can seem artificial. Most people, if responding in anger, for instance, will express their animosity throughout their rebuttal. But disinfo types usually have trouble maintaining the 'image' and are hot and cold with respect to pretended emotions and their usually more calm or unemotional communications style. It's just a job, and they often seem unable to 'act their role in character' as well in a communications medium as they might be able in a real face-to-face conversation/confrontation. You might have outright rage and indignation one moment, ho-hum the next, and more anger later -- an emotional yo-yo. With respect to being thick-skinned, no amount of criticism will deter them from doing their job, and they will generally continue their old disinfo patterns without any adjustments to criticisms of how obvious it is that they play that game -- where a more rational individual who truly cares what others think might seek to improve their communications style, substance, and so forth, or simply give up.

7) Inconsistent. There is also a tendency to make mistakes which betray their true self/motives. This may stem from not really knowing their topic, or it may be somewhat 'freudian', so to speak, in that perhaps they really root for the side of truth deep within.

I have noted that often, they will simply cite contradictory information which neutralizes itself and the author. For instance, one such player claimed to be a Navy pilot, but blamed his poor communicating skills (spelling, grammar, incoherent style) on having only a grade-school education. I'm not aware of too many Navy pilots who don't have a college degree. Another claimed no knowledge of a particular topic/situation but later claimed first-hand knowledge of it.

8) BONUS TRAIT: Time Constant. Recently discovered, with respect to News Groups, is the response time factor. There are three ways this can be seen to work, especially when the government or other empowered player is involved in a cover up operation:

1) ANY NG posting by a targeted proponent for truth can result in an IMMEDIATE response. The government and other empowered players can afford to pay people to sit there and watch for an opportunity to do some damage. SINCE DISINFO IN A NG ONLY WORKS IF THE READER SEES IT - FAST RESPONSE IS CALLED FOR, or the visitor may be swayed towards truth.

2) When dealing in more direct ways with a disinformationalist, such as email, DELAY IS CALLED FOR - there will usually be a minimum of a 48-72 hour delay. This allows a sit-down team discussion on response strategy for best effect, and even enough time to 'get permission' or instruction from a formal chain of command.

3) In the NG example 1) above, it will often ALSO be seen that bigger guns are drawn and fired after the same 48-72 hours delay - the team approach in play. This is especially true when the targeted truth seeker or their comments are considered more important with respect to potential to reveal truth. Thus, a serious truth sayer will be attacked twice for the same sin.

 

[realbrown1]

LB, they are using disinformation tactics. Don't let it bother you. Does this sound like a couple of posters on here?

1) Avoidance. They never actually discuss issues head-on or provide constructive input, generally avoiding citation of references or credentials. Rather, they merely imply this, that, and the other. Virtually everything about their presentation implies their authority and expert knowledge in the matter without any further justification for credibility.

2) Selectivity. They tend to pick and choose opponents carefully, either applying the hit-and-run approach against mere commentators supportive of opponents, or focusing heavier attacks on key opponents who are known to directly address issues. Should a commentatorbecome argumentative with any success, the focus will shift to include the commentator as well.

3) Coincidental. They tend to surface suddenly and somewhat coincidentally with a new controversial topic with no clear prior record of participation in general discussions in the particular public arena involved. They likewise tend to vanish once the topic is no longer of general concern. They were likely directed or elected to be there for a reason, and vanish with the reason.

4) Teamwork. They tend to operate in self-congratulatory and complementary packs or teams. Of course, this can happen naturally in any public forum, but there will likely be an ongoing pattern of frequent exchanges of this sort where professionals are involved. Sometimes one of the players will infiltrate the opponent camp to become a source for straw man or other tactics designed to dilute opponent presentation strength.

5) Anti-conspiratorial. They almost always have disdain for 'conspiracy theorists' and, usually, for those who in any way believe JFK was not killed by LHO. Ask yourself why, if they hold such disdain for conspiracy theorists, do they focus on defending a single topic discussed in a NG focusing on conspiracies? One might think they would either be trying to make fools of everyone on every topic, or simply ignore the group they hold in such disdain.Or, one might more rightly conclude they have an ulterior motive for their actions in going out of their way to focus as they do.

6) Artificial Emotions. An odd kind of 'artificial' emotionalism and an unusually thick skin -- an ability to persevere and persist even in the face of overwhelming criticism and unacceptance. This likely stems from intelligence community training that, no matter how condemning the evidence, deny everything, and never become emotionally involved or reactive. The net result for a disinfo artist is that emotions can seem artificial. Most people, if responding in anger, for instance, will express their animosity throughout their rebuttal. But disinfo types usually have trouble maintaining the 'image' and are hot and cold with respect to pretended emotions and their usually more calm or unemotional communications style. It's just a job, and they often seem unable to 'act their role in character' as well in a communications medium as they might be able in a real face-to-face conversation/confrontation. You might have outright rage and indignation one moment, ho-hum the next, and more anger later -- an emotional yo-yo. With respect to being thick-skinned, no amount of criticism will deter them from doing their job, and they will generally continue their old disinfo patterns without any adjustments to criticisms of how obvious it is that they play that game -- where a more rational individual who truly cares what others think might seek to improve their communications style, substance, and so forth, or simply give up.

7) Inconsistent. There is also a tendency to make mistakes which betray their true self/motives. This may stem from not really knowing their topic, or it may be somewhat 'freudian', so to speak, in that perhaps they really root for the side of truth deep within.

I have noted that often, they will simply cite contradictory information which neutralizes itself and the author. For instance, one such player claimed to be a Navy pilot, but blamed his poor communicating skills (spelling, grammar, incoherent style) on having only a grade-school education. I'm not aware of too many Navy pilots who don't have a college degree. Another claimed no knowledge of a particular topic/situation but later claimed first-hand knowledge of it.

8) BONUS TRAIT: Time Constant. Recently discovered, with respect to News Groups, is the response time factor. There are three ways this can be seen to work, especially when the government or other empowered player is involved in a cover up operation:

1) ANY NG posting by a targeted proponent for truth can result in an IMMEDIATE response. The government and other empowered players can afford to pay people to sit there and watch for an opportunity to do some damage. SINCE DISINFO IN A NG ONLY WORKS IF THE READER SEES IT - FAST RESPONSE IS CALLED FOR, or the visitor may be swayed towards truth.

2) When dealing in more direct ways with a disinformationalist, such as email, DELAY IS CALLED FOR - there will usually be a minimum of a 48-72 hour delay. This allows a sit-down team discussion on response strategy for best effect, and even enough time to 'get permission' or instruction from a formal chain of command.

3) In the NG example 1) above, it will often ALSO be seen that bigger guns are drawn and fired after the same 48-72 hours delay - the team approach in play. This is especially true when the targeted truth seeker or their comments are considered more important with respect to potential to reveal truth. Thus, a serious truth sayer will be attacked twice for the same sin.

Wow. Is this the OG game plan? I haven't given it much thought, just playing it by ear. No wonder you're on here slamming all the TDU leaning posters. You have to keep up on you're game plan.

 

[realbrown1]

1) Avoidance. They never actually discuss issues head-on or provide constructive input, generally avoiding citation of references or credentials. Rather, they merely imply this, that, and the other. Virtually everything about their presentation implies their authority and expert knowledge in the matter without any further justification for credibility.

4) Teamwork. They tend to operate in self-congratulatory and complementary packs or teams. Of course, this can happen naturally in any public forum, but there will likely be an ongoing pattern of frequent exchanges of this sort where professionals are involved. Sometimes one of the players will infiltrate the opponent camp to become a source for straw man or other tactics designed to dilute opponent presentation strength.

5) Anti-conspiratorial. They almost always have disdain for 'conspiracy theorists' and, usually, for those who in any way believe JFK was not killed by LHO. Ask yourself why, if they hold such disdain for conspiracy theorists, do they focus on defending a single topic discussed in a NG focusing on conspiracies? One might think they would either be trying to make fools of everyone on every topic, or simply ignore the group they hold in such disdain.Or, one might more rightly conclude they have an ulterior motive for their actions in going out of their way to focus as they do.

The are quotes right out of Stink's OG Playbook. #1 and #4 fit Stink and his OG buddies perfectly. On #1 Avoidance, do you notice how they never admit to any real problem with how Hoffa or any OG follower runs the union. There is no communication problem. They say that you can find almost everything on teamster.com. Right. You can find everything on teamster.com about a month after TDU.org has posted it on their website.
They also never want to talk about the union's finances, officer salaries and perks or any other issue that doesn't look good for the Old Guard.
#4 has Stink and 407 written all over it. Just look at the positive reps these guys keep giving themselves (like it matters) and the negitive reps they give to people they disagree with. They ususally move it packs attacking with Stink, 407, In the game, BUG, a few others and their moderator friends. If thier arguments are not working, the name calling then comes out. They have no answer for TOS, so look at his avatar and name.
#5 they have all wrong. If they are referring to us pro-TDU people. I am a big conspiracy person. Almost nothing happens by accident, most of it is planned out. I have said from the beginning that I think this carve-out MOU is just ment to calm us down so that they can transition us to TEAMCARE with out us causing too much problems. I believe this. It is starting to look like I am right on this. Almost no word has come out on the MOU carve-out, but hey, look at this, TEAMCARE just got up-graded. WOW. What a coincidence.
I can't believe you put out your game plan Stink. Somebody is probably pretty mad with you right now.

 

[stink219]

The are quotes right out of Stink's OG Playbook. #1 and #4 fit Stink and his OG buddies perfectly. On #1 Avoidance, do you notice how they never admit to any real problem with how Hoffa or any OG follower runs the union. There is no communication problem. They say that you can find almost everything on teamster.com. Right. You can find everything on teamster.com about a month after TDU.org has posted it on their website.
They also never want to talk about the union's finances, officer salaries and perks or any other issue that doesn't look good for the Old Guard.
#4 has Stink and 407 written all over it. Just look at the positive reps these guys keep giving themselves (like it matters) and the negitive reps they give to people they disagree with. They ususally move it packs attacking with Stink, 407, In the game, BUG, a few others and their moderator friends. If thier arguments are not working, the name calling then comes out. They have no answer for TOS, so look at his avatar and name.
#5 they have all wrong. If they are referring to us pro-TDU people. I am a big conspiracy person. Almost nothing happens by accident, most of it is planned out. I have said from the beginning that I think this carve-out MOU is just ment to calm us down so that they can transition us to TEAMCARE with out us causing too much problems. I believe this. It is starting to look like I am right on this. Almost no word has come out on the MOU carve-out, but hey, look at this, TEAMCARE just got up-graded. WOW. What a coincidence.
I can't believe you put out your game plan Stink. Somebody is probably pretty mad with you right now.

Yup, it's everyone else against you 2 guys. The majority is wrong and you 2 people are correct.

Psychosis:
1. Loss of contact with reality.
2. False beliefs about what is taking place.
3. Who one is (delusions).
4. Seeing or hearing things that aren't there (hallucinations).

 

[realbrown1]

Yup, it's everyone else against you 2 guys. The majority is wrong and you 2 people are correct.

Psychosis:
1. Loss of contact with reality.
2. False beliefs about what is taking place.
3. Who one is (delusions).
4. Seeing or hearing things that aren't there (hallucinations).

Oh we have more allies, alot more.
But you are the one having hallucinations if you truly believe everyone else on bc believes in what you believe in.

 

[stink219]

Oh we have more allies, alot more.
But you are the one having hallucinations if you truly believe everyone else on bc believes in what you believe in.

Oh I forgot about Hyena. I guess you win again. Everyone? No. But I'm sure I dwarf you by about 90%.

 

[Anonymous 10]

Oh we have more allies, alot more.
But you are the one having hallucinations if you truly believe everyone else on bc believes in what you believe in.

Allies on an Internet forum. Are you a dork? This is a message board right?? What are you really going to do? Dude you need to find some action with a woman or something. Lol

 

[realbrown1]

Allies on an Internet forum. Are you a dork? This is a message board right?? What are you really going to do? Dude you need to find some action with a woman or something. Lol

Allies means friends who are like minded and have you back.
Just curious 407, what's the last year of schooling did you complete?