Why are some UPS employees members of two unions? I'm confused!

[tieguy]

TIEGUY, I have asked that question since I have been with this company (almost 17 years). Even, before all the pension blowups, and even before the APWA. I always get the same answers.

Do you think the TEAMSTERS or whatever UNION even the APWA will let that happen? You know why they won;t, because they can't get their hands on OUR money and control it that way.

I have said time and time again, You give me a company matched 401 K and I'll shut my mouth. That is the answer to the pensions crisis.

I don't believe the teamsters union will ever try to negotiate a 401 K match because they like controlling the money.

 

[Bill]

Uh...confused? Me too. Two unions? Where? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought this APWA was an ORGANIZATION, not a union!
Eng...We appreciate your fervor but, with all due respect, you're confusing some of the rank and file also.
Also, I, too, want answers. I asked you for answers a few threads ago and you slyly disappeared. You accused your BA of "double-dipping", accepting a Teamster salary and pension and accepting a City Council salary and pension. I asked you to prove he was getting paid as a City Council member and you shot back to me that I was "naive" in thinking that they don't get paid. Well, that, kinda didn't answer my question. I asked you to prove that he was getting a pension from the City Council...no answer.
I asked you to prove that he was at City Council meetings during times that he should have been attending to Teamster business. No answer!
In one of the last posts in that thread, you close by saying the IBT was corrupt, the local was corrupt, and HE was corrupt! OK! Prove it!

Once again, I will call you naive, or if not, then you must be a Teamster BA or steward who will go down with the ship. You will believe all the Teamster propaganda even after they have destroyed our benefits. Nothing I can say would change your way of thinking. City councilmen get paid for their services, probably not much legally. The city of Hialeah Gardens has a history of corruption. Plenty of money gets passed along under the table to buy a councilman's vote. Why else would someone take this thankless job? As far as teamster corruption is concerned, Hoffa sr had ties to the mafia. Hoffa jr is a product of his dad. Need I say more?

 

[Bill]

::::Sighs:::. Goose, you're puttin words in my mouth...AGAIN!!!! I'm not even gonna get into your point about post-retirement work, largely because I'm nowhere near that, so I don't have an opinion formed. From this board, it sounds like it depends on the local/fund whether or not that rule actually applies. And, yes, I am a short-timer. I make no-bones about it. I'm at UPS this time for very specific things--health benefits, in particular. And let's not drag the union/company thing into this, OK? Not really in the mood for that sparring match with you again. As to being a puppy dog...you don't play fair, do you? I don't generally name-call but you are a definite A-HOLE. I get what I want and a little more from UPS and I'm happy. Again, being short-timer, I have that luxury.



Stupid? You're one nasty, rude, hot-headed feeder-driver aren't you? Its not stupidity if it doesn't mean the world to you. As I said above and almost certainly in other posts, I'm a young guy with my life ahead of me. The pension mess is something MY generation is gonna have to clean up and knowing my generation, we'll screw up the last chance to clean things up and turn it around. If I wanted to know or cared THAT much about the pension fund I'm in, I could find out. But...I don't care. Sorry but that's a dead point, Goose. Anything else you really wanna talk about? -Rocky

Rocky, you also must think that Bush is doing a great job!!!!!

 

[Bill]

yeah ..you try to ask a simple question and the only answer i get is go to their web site, which still tells me nothing, come back here, ask more question's, the only answer i get is sign up for the news letter.....it would be nice if the people on brown cafe who claim to know so much about the APWA would just answer the simple question's for us.....if it is this hard to get the info now....what will it be like if they gain control....

I have posted only one simple question weeks ago and no one has given me an answer. the question was: What is the Teamsters offering that will make me back them up? the responses were stupid and childish. The Teamsters have nothing to offer, so you turn it around and put the APWA down. At least the APWA has a plan, which is more I can say for the Teamsters. I have answered many questons regarding the APWA, but you knuckleheads will not accept my answers that are factual and can be verified. The same can not be said about the Teamsters.

 

[Bill]

Well Put...They know the apwa has no shot but, let's not take away their dream's. You have to admit it does make for funny reading. What's going to happen after the next contract when the teamster's are still in? There won't be nothing to write about? Somebody mentioned the pilot's did it, yea there isn't 400,000 pilot's either!!!

The pilots are smaller in number, but they are also a much more intelligent group of people that can see the handwriting on the wall. You knuckleheads are closed-minded and are not willing to look at both sides of the issue. If you did, this would be a no-brainer. Keep backing the Teamsters and soon you will be happy to receive only 40% of what you should be getting. The fact is that every year that the Teamsters control our pension, the fund gets smaller and smaller.

 

[Bill]

Gman this seems to be the only post I can find that you tried to answer some of my question's...but I have asked several questions in other post... as have many other people...in another post I said that I saw some flaws in the plan and ENGINEER79 asked me to point them out and I did, yet still no response...as for your answer's you stated above....6-12 months seems to be a big gap..it dosn't sound like you're to sure about this..and my union dues would be used to "BUILD BUILDINGS" and "BUY CARS"...I can understand computers and office stuff.....dosn't the APWA plan on renting office space like everyone else...why can't the APWA official's use thier personal car's and get a millage allowance(or atleast till things get rolling?) So all i'v been asking for is more facts from those of you who are already involved, and have already singed up for the news letter....so far on the APWA web site I dont see any thing that even exites me enough to sing up..that's why I ask my question's on here....all i've been asking for is the facts on how the APWA plans to make this a reality...and so far every answer is based on what the TEAMSTERS cant do....so please go back and re-read all my question's and the question's from several other's on brown cafe and give more detailed answer's....and please try to do this with out the mention of what the TEAMSTERS cant do...and the cars you mentioned....you talking, LEXUS?...BMW?...OR FORD FOCUS?

How can anyone take you serious? Millage is not a word. It's milleage. You can't sing up for a newsletter. It's sign up. Exites is not a word. It's excites. I have answered all your questions but I have not received an answer to mine.

 

[Bill]

I have to admit that I have been confused by this thread. Its posted in the wrong forum, and to the best of my knowledge, UPS employees are represented by three unions, the IBT, IAM, and the pilot's union. The APWA isn't a union at all, only in the stage of trying to turn itself into one. I am in Central States, and believe me, that is the biggest gripe I have about being employed by UPS since 1975. I don't care what part of the country you are in, everyone should realize that the Social Security and Pensions that we used to think would take care of us at retirement age just isn't going to happen. You can easily retire wealthy if you invest as much as possible in stuff like mutual funds, your 401K, and other such investments.

I have a lot of respect for the guys who want to improve things by replacing the Teamsters. I just don't see that it will happen anytime the next decade. Most of the country either hasn't heard of the APWA or think their current pension will somehow be alright. I am in the South with the APWA founders just a few hundred miles away, but a majority of my co-workers have never heard of them. I have twenty three years credit in CS, if APWA pulled some miracle soon and got in, it couldn't help my situation.

That is where you are wrong. The APWA benefits everyone. However the younger you are, the more you will gain from the APWA, whereas the opposite is true for the Teamsters. The older UPS employees will have the 30 and out plan reinstated, so you can retire young and still enjoy your retirement years. Your pension will be guaranteed and your medical will be locked in at $300 per month as opposed to the Teamster plan where you pay up to $1080 for medical benefits.

 

[Bill]

...and Eng continues to evade my questions...

What are your questions? I have asked only one question and no one seems to be able to answer it in an intelligent way.

 

[raceanoncr]

Once again, I will call you naive, or if not, then you must be a Teamster BA or steward who will go down with the ship. You will believe all the Teamster propaganda even after they have destroyed our benefits. Nothing I can say would change your way of thinking. City councilmen get paid for their services, probably not much legally. The city of Hialeah Gardens has a history of corruption. Plenty of money gets passed along under the table to buy a councilman's vote. Why else would someone take this thankless job? As far as teamster corruption is concerned, Hoffa sr had ties to the mafia. Hoffa jr is a product of his dad. Need I say more?

Eng...yes, you DO need to say more! You evidently can't read either. Now, I've tried to be diplomatic on here but you have to call names and evade the questions, clouding the issues with accusations. I told you before, I'm just a grunt, no BA, no steward, just a sleeper driver. Read past posts if you can get past the union hatred in your eyes.

I asked you to PROVE that this councilman was getting paid. You haven't. You said he was getting a pension from the council. I asked you to PROVE it. You ain't yet. I asked you to PROVE that he was attending council meetings on Teamster business time. You ain't. I asked you to PROVE that he was corrupt, as you claim. You ain't. If you ask me, your accusations would be bordering on legal action for someone in your region.

I said you were contributing to the confusion by calling your APWA a UNION. No reply.

So continue to enlighten the gullible. Continue to thrill them with your evasiveness. I will continue to sleep well, knowing the protection I have had and will continue to have. I will not address any more of your threads or posts because it's like dealing with management...no answers, only threats.

 

[nospinzone]

I said you were contributing to the confusion by calling your APWA a UNION. No reply.

APWA has attained all the documents necessary to be considered a legal union. If you choose not to believe this, go try to get your BA to put in writing on a IBT letterhead that the APWA is not a union and see what his response is.

What other pressing, important questions do you have that have gone unanswered, yet are not important enough to give two hours of your time on a saturday to attend a meeting....or better yet a half-hour on the phone personally with Van or Danny?

The Evolution of Labor: Integrity. Honor. Justice.

 

[raceanoncr]

APWA has attained all the documents necessary to be considered a legal union. If you choose not to believe this, go try to get your BA to put in writing on a IBT letterhead that the APWA is not a union and see what his response is.

What other pressing, important questions do you have that have gone unanswered, yet are not important enough to give two hours of your time on a saturday to attend a meeting....or better yet a half-hour on the phone personally with Van or Danny?

The Evolution of Labor: Integrity. Honor. Justice.

Uh...refer to above post. PROVE corrupt...hours...pension...etc....no answers...yet.....

 

[RockyRogue]

Rocky, you also must think that Bush is doing a great job!!!!!

::::Sighs:::. Engineer, let's not make this into a tag team situation, OK? I'm not really in the mood after a day in the UPS trenches. As to Bush...I won't even go there. -Rocky.

 

[Bill]

Eng...yes, you DO need to say more! You evidently can't read either. Now, I've tried to be diplomatic on here but you have to call names and evade the questions, clouding the issues with accusations. I told you before, I'm just a grunt, no BA, no steward, just a sleeper driver. Read past posts if you can get past the union hatred in your eyes.

I asked you to PROVE that this councilman was getting paid. You haven't. You said he was getting a pension from the council. I asked you to PROVE it. You ain't yet. I asked you to PROVE that he was attending council meetings on Teamster business time. You ain't. I asked you to PROVE that he was corrupt, as you claim. You ain't. If you ask me, your accusations would be bordering on legal action for someone in your region.

I said you were contributing to the confusion by calling your APWA a UNION. No reply.

So continue to enlighten the gullible. Continue to thrill them with your evasiveness. I will continue to sleep well, knowing the protection I have had and will continue to have. I will not address any more of your threads or posts because it's like dealing with management...no answers, only threats.

Raceanoncr, you are missing the point. It is not the fact that this BA is working a second job, but the fact that we are not allowed to do anything else to offset any work outside of UPS. If you went to the link, you would have seen a picture of this BA, his history and his title. Everyone but you know that these people get paid, albeit not much, for the time they spend fulfilling their job. I have answered every question that you put out there, but you are never satisfied.
For the last time, I will explain to you and the people out there that don't quite get it. Let's take two entities. One is established for many years (Teamsters), and the other (APWA) is just starting out with no experience. The established entity has a track record, but has no plans or solutions to improve its current quandary. It can remain at its status quo or keep getting worse due to its obligations. In other words, there is no way out of the predicament that they are in. Along comes a new entity with a plan to remedy the problem. Whether it works or not is not the issue. There is a chance to correct the current situation (pension), whereas by staying the course, the situation is bleak and could only get worse. Isn't it better to make a change, hope for the best, than to stay idle and watch your pension and medical benefits go down the drain? By the way, I believe that after looking at the numbers, the plan under the APWA is feasible. Let me know if you would like me to explain the numbers game to you.
I am not calling you or anyone else names; I am only trying to enlighten you, but that requires that you keep an open mind.
One last thing. My thread started about two months ago titled "Are the Teamsters really working for you" has not produced one valid reason to stay with the Teamsters. Why don't you or anyone else out there give me one valid reason that is intellectually thought out? All you do is twist things around and put down the APWA, but you still haven't answered my question.

 

[govols019]

You want me to put my trust in the APWA and just hope for the best? That's your selling point?

 

[Cezanne]

I really don't blame you guys with the AWPA with being pissed off with the teamster leadership. I have a bone or two to pick with them also, but the reality is that currently it is the TEAMSTERS union that is negotating with the company. This pension issue is going to come to a conclusion one way or another with this next contract. Most of the members who would be interesting in an early retirement clause are not going to trust their futures on a fly-by-night upstart union, not when you are dealing with a corporate giant like UPS. Study the last Canadian contract and see the tactics, the threat of pulling out of the country basically forced the workers to accept the contract. With the United States teamsters being national, it would be hard for this kind of tactic. Even if you gain a foothill in a right to work state, what bargaining power would you have with that closed shop sceniro.

 

[wildgoose]

I really don't blame you guys with the AWPA with being pissed off with the teamster leadership. I have a bone or two to pick with them also, but the reality is that currently it is the TEAMSTERS union that is negotating with the company. This pension issue is going to come to a conclusion one way or another with this next contract. Most of the members who would be interesting in an early retirement clause are not going to trust their futures on a fly-by-night upstart union, not when you are dealing with a corporate giant like UPS. Study the last Canadian contract and see the tactics, the threat of pulling out of the country basically forced the workers to accept the contract. With the United States teamsters being national, it would be hard for this kind of tactic. Even if you gain a foothill in a right to work state, what bargaining power would you have with that closed shop sceniro.

Just because we have a contract coming up you think that will resolve the underfunding issues caused by the teamsters ? Boy are you dreaming bigtime ! The only answer is what more cuts will be necessarry to keep the teamsters afloat ? Until you start fresh you will have the vulture hanging over your head waiting for the obvious !!!!!!!

 

[Bill]

You want me to put my trust in the APWA and just hope for the best? That's your selling point?

It's not just hope, but a plan to salvage the pension plan. The teamsters don't even have a plan. A new start is better than staying on board with the Teamsters and knowing the ship is sinking. With more people retiring in other companies, the Teamster obligations are getting larger each year. This translates into less money for UPS people. There is no future with the Teamsters. More and more cuts will be coming in the near future. Under the APWA, they don't have the obligations to pay out pensions to other companies employees, so logically, there is more money for us and therefore, better benefits.

 

[Bill]

I really don't blame you guys with the AWPA with being pissed off with the teamster leadership. I have a bone or two to pick with them also, but the reality is that currently it is the TEAMSTERS union that is negotating with the company. This pension issue is going to come to a conclusion one way or another with this next contract. Most of the members who would be interesting in an early retirement clause are not going to trust their futures on a fly-by-night upstart union, not when you are dealing with a corporate giant like UPS. Study the last Canadian contract and see the tactics, the threat of pulling out of the country basically forced the workers to accept the contract. With the United States teamsters being national, it would be hard for this kind of tactic. Even if you gain a foothill in a right to work state, what bargaining power would you have with that closed shop sceniro.

FIrst you say that you don't trust the APWA. Then you say that you don't know anything about the APWA. You are contradicting yourself. How can you not trust something that you do not know anything about? Try opening your mind and look at the facts. Also, what is it that you and your Teamster backers don't trust? Are you happy knowing that when you retire, you will be getting less than half of what you should receive? There is no security with the Teamsters.

 

[brett636]

FIrst you say that you don't trust the APWA. Then you say that you don't know anything about the APWA. You are contradicting yourself. How can you not trust something that you do not know anything about? Try opening your mind and look at the facts. Also, what is it that you and your Teamster backers don't trust? Are you happy knowing that when you retire, you will be getting less than half of what you should receive? There is no security with the Teamsters.

He is not contradicting himself. He is simply stating that he cannot trust an organization that he does not know. An organization that has no past to look back on. An organization that cannot prove that it can make one peice of its "plan" work. I know I know "but its a UPS only union", but making grand claims with no hard facts to back them up makes a poor showing. I wouldn't vote for that farce you call a union on other principles as well, but the very reason it will fail is that it has no way to prove itself to the UPS employees.

 

[Bill]

He is not contradicting himself. He is simply stating that he cannot trust an organization that he does not know. An organization that has no past to look back on. An organization that cannot prove that it can make one peice of its "plan" work. I know I know "but its a UPS only union", but making grand claims with no hard facts to back them up makes a poor showing. I wouldn't vote for that farce you call a union on other principles as well, but the very reason it will fail is that it has no way to prove itself to the UPS employees.

What has the Teamsters proven to us? Do they have a solution to fix our pension and medical problems other than making additional cuts? I guess you would rather stick with a Teamsters union that is failing to represent it's members by cutting our benefits piece by piece. Here is a fact for you to think about. The workforce of the United States that is unionized was 12.5% last year. This year, it was at an all time low of 12%. The percentage of people that are working for unions keep dropping. Why do you think this is happening? You can verify this by going to the U.S. government statistics. The unions are not working for the workingforce any longer. Granted, we need a union to represent us, but we need one that will work for us. The Teamsters do not do this anymore. This is why we need our own union to represent UPS people only, whether it is the APWA or another enterprise. What do you know about the IPA (UPS pilots union)? Why do you think they broke away from the Teamsters and formed their own union?