Why collective bargaining?

[Atomic_Smurf]

S.O.S u can't prove your point on RTW, so u switch to obamacare. You are pathetic

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I've made a sound case on why RTW is inconsequential to union workers accept to help prod the representation into doing their job. The best proof of that is the fact that you haven't been able to produce one shred of evidence to the contrary.

 

[Atomic_Smurf]

You have an incredible lack of knowledge regarding collective bargaining. The IBT failed to file the required 60 day notice of a contract reopener with FMCS. The IBT also failed to file FMCS form 7, the 30 day notification required prior to a dispute. The failure of the 60 day reopener filing could have resulted in the contract continuing for 1 year, under the terms of the previously negotiated contract. No one is making a "pathetic excuse for the failure of our leadership". Anything but! It may well have been a quid pro quo with UPS to agree to continue bargaining in return for a guarantee that the dissent in Local 89 would be squashed.

Every Local Union with a white paper contract knows that these deadlines cannot be ignored! It makes no sense that the IBT, with a team of lawyers in the Legal Department and lawyers in the Small Parcel Division would miss these critical deadlines.

Stick to what you know! Avoiding paying for services that are provided to you!

Our BA came in the day after our NO vote to tell us that if we wanted a strike they would begin filing the proper paper work that day. Are you saying our leadership was lying to the rank & file again?

 

[Atomic_Smurf]

They are NOT "members too, not even in RTW states. They do not have the right to run for office! They do not have the right to vote! In fact, they have zero effect on how local officers conduct themselves. An informed and involved membership can have that effect...a RTW freeloader can not!

In fact, a responsible local union may well take a look at their finances and assess exactly what the local union is spending in representation fees for the RTW freeloaders. They may then determine that it would be in the best interest of their general membership to disclaim interest in the bargaining unit that is placing a financial burden on the general membership. Then what? Hire your own lawyers? Argue your own cases with the NLRB? Good luck with all that!

BTW Troll, do you really work for UPS? You seem to be on BrownCafe 24-7.

So part timers in RTW states aren't members? That's news to me and I'm sure a lot of others too. Might want to let them know so they can stop paying dues.You need to work on your reading comprehension skills because you're making an argument against something I didn't say..lol. I was pointing out that RTW laws are forcing union leaders into representing the often forgot part-time worker since they are more apt to opt out of paying dues. Yes, that's a win for part-timers thanks to RTW legislation. They don't have to opt out of dues to see the benefits of more accountable representation.

 

[Atomic_Smurf]

RTW is dying on the vine. Storm coming

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That's what they said about Scott Walker. Spent millions & had their a**es handed to them by the voters. Any evidence that RTW is dying in the vine? Working just fine for us here. ACA, not so much. When are you going to change your focus to what is really hurting working people in this country?

 

[Atomic_Smurf]

Almost 200 union members in my center in a RTW state. 0 have seen a single negative consequence because of RTW. 0. Zero. Z-E-R-O. Guess how many had there healthcare plans downgraded as a result of Democrat legislation. Every last one of them! But hey lets go rally against RTW in Washington! Idiots...

 

[upschuck]

Almost 200 union members in my center in a RTW state. 0 have seen a single negative consequence because of RTW. 0. Zero. Z-E-R-O. Guess how many had there healthcare plans downgraded as a result of Democrat legislation. Every last one of them! But hey lets go rally against RTW in Washington! Idiots...

Being RTW has absolutely nothing to do with ACA. Why do you keep bringing them up like they are married?

They have zero consequence because laws state unions still have to represent them(something for nothing), which is not right. Tell me why you think that is right.

 

[Turdferguson]

Almost 200 union members in my center in a RTW state. 0 have seen a single negative consequence because of RTW. 0. Zero. Z-E-R-O. Guess how many had there healthcare plans downgraded as a result of Democrat legislation. Every last one of them! But hey lets go rally against RTW in Washington! Idiots...

Are you management? Only ones healthcae act impacted was them when working spouses were removed from health plan

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[Atomic_Smurf]

Being RTW has absolutely nothing to do with ACA. Why do you keep bringing them up like they are married?

They have zero consequence because laws state unions still have to represent them(something for nothing), which is not right. Tell me why you think that is right.

Yes they are two totally separate pieces of legislation, each supported by a different party. One is nearly inconsequential to working people yet union leaders have used it to occupy their attention while they've been making deals to downgrade your earned benefits. Now you've been awarded an "unsustainable" healthcare plan thanks poor Teamster leadership & Obamas-healthcare-price-gouging-&-redistribution-bill while you've been fooled into worrying & fighting RTW.

 

[Atomic_Smurf]

Are you management? Only ones healthcae act impacted was them when working spouses were removed from health plan

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No they weren't the only ones. Google: "unions & ObamaCare" to see why most all that supported it now have buyers remorse. You'll understand when you read Hoffa's words regarding Taft Hartley multi-employer plans.

 

[upschuck]

Yes they are two totally separate pieces of legislation, each supported by a different party. One is nearly inconsequential to working people yet union leaders have used it to occupy their attention while they've been making deals to downgrade your earned benefits. Now you've been awarded an "unsustainable" healthcare plan thanks poor Teamster leadership & Obamas-healthcare-price-gouging-&-redistribution-bill while you've been fooled into worrying & fighting RTW.

There you go again. You like to evade my questions.

 

[Atomic_Smurf]

There you go again. You like to evade my questions.

I'm not worried about 2 part-time workers out of 200 union members not paying dues, if its even that. Let's focus on that which is of real consequence like the union now being able to keep our raises to use for healthcare. Or that the healthcare you earn for your family is now unsustainable under the ACA. Stop crying about RTW & focus on the real problems before us.

 

[Atomic_Smurf]

Who cares if a couple part-timers making $9hr don't pay dues. I'm sure those guys could use the money for food, rent or diapers rather than donate it to Hoffa's twelve sandwich eating a** & his half million dollar salary.

 

[upschuck]

ACA stinks.

I thought this thread was about union issues though.

 

[Brown Spider]

So part timers in RTW states aren't members? That's news to me and I'm sure a lot of others too. Might want to let them know so they can stop paying dues.You need to work on your reading comprehension skills because you're making an argument against something I didn't say..lol. I was pointing out that RTW laws are forcing union leaders into representing the often forgot part-time worker since they are more apt to opt out of paying dues. Yes, that's a win for part-timers thanks to RTW legislation. They don't have to opt out of dues to see the benefits of more accountable representation.

What you stated was "RTW is the best thing to happen to UPS part timers in years. The union is starting to recognize that they are members too, at least the ones in RTW states. If local 89 wasn't in non-rtw KY the outcome may have been a little different. But no, they all have to keep paying for their non-representation with no worries of a backlash from its members." If the part-timers haven't opted out of the union and jumped on your RTW bandwagon, then it would appear that RTW did not happen to them. And RTW has no effect on holding local union officers accountable! In fact, a UPS part-timer who has not been adequately represented has the right to file a Duty of Fair Representation charge with the NLRB. You've misrepresented RTW legislation in the past...even suggesting at one point that RTW employees had the right to run for union office. Absurd! But hey...if you sell enough snake oil, you may just get a couple of unsuspecting part-timers to slither into your RTW hole.

 

[Brown Spider]

Our BA came in the day after our NO vote to tell us that if we wanted a strike they would begin filing the proper paper work that day. Are you saying our leadership was lying to the rank & file again?

I would have no way of knowing what your BA told you and I'd be a bit reluctant to accept your version of what he said. What I do know is that Local 89 pursued the matter and determined that the IBT did not file the two necessary forms with FMCS. When Hoffa and Hall did not respond to the Local 89 inquiry, a Freedom Of Information complaint was made and a FOI Compliance Officer determined that the required documents were not submitted.

 

[Atomic_Smurf]

What you stated was "RTW is the best thing to happen to UPS part timers in years. The union is starting to recognize that they are members too, at least the ones in RTW states. If local 89 wasn't in non-rtw KY the outcome may have been a little different. But no, they all have to keep paying for their non-representation with no worries of a backlash from its members." If the part-timers haven't opted out of the union and jumped on your RTW bandwagon, then it would appear that RTW did not happen to them. And RTW has no effect on holding local union officers accountable! In fact, a UPS part-timer who has not been adequately represented has the right to file a Duty of Fair Representation charge with the NLRB. You've misrepresented RTW legislation in the past...even suggesting at one point that RTW employees had the right to run for union office. Absurd! But hey...if you sell enough snake oil, you may just get a couple of unsuspecting part-timers to slither into your RTW hole.

There you go, completely misunderstanding again. That must make daily life quite a challenge. What you aren't understanding is how RTW gives leverage to every single bargaining unit employee even WITHOUT leaving the union in the same way that the freedom to strike gives us leverage without ever having to walk on a picket line. That's what I say that local 89 may have had a different outcome had they been in a RTW state. The IBT leadership would have had to take into consideration the possibility of losing members by forcing them against their will as they did. Now I also understand the rights that you give up when you choose to leave the union but the intended purpose is to return in a better position than you were before & I would strongly advicate or anyone rebelling against misrepresentation to return to the union once the intended outcome has been achieved. Perhaps that also sheds some light on why our union leadership it is so adamantly against RTW & has spent so much time, money and effort rallying workers to fear it.

 

[Ron Carey lives on]

I would have no problem with RTW, if these things went along with it ( no seniority, no negotiated raises, no benefits negotiated by the union in the past or future. Do you see where im going with this. You will not benefit from dues I pay. Your other choice, go buy you a fedex ground truck and good luck to ya

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[Ron Carey lives on]

Or management, which I think you are extremely qualified for

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[Ron Carey lives on]

You seem to be into independent thinking. I don't need to listen to James P. Hoffa or Rachael Maddow to know whats right. I suggest u analyze your job, and whether or not you are listening to right wing entertainment to much. It is about like professional wrestling, a lot of show but very staged

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[Ron Carey lives on]

Simple Smurf, do you ever sit back and go" wow im confused. Im a union member making a good living on union wages, but I hate unions. What do I do? What would Rush do?" You are so funny smurfy. But at the same time, Ups offers help.

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