Why do we pay people to negotiate a contract?

[ih8tbrn]

I've been at my "new" company for 12 years and I love it; good pay, good benefits, excellent retirement, and NO stress. UPS was a solution to a crappy situation that has now remedied itself. The job wasn't the problem, it was (same old story) crappy management and crappy policies that made it a miserable experience when it didn't need to be.

 

[Catatonic]

I've been at my "new" company for 12 years and I love it; good pay, good benefits, excellent retirement, and NO stress. UPS was a solution to a crappy situation that has now remedied itself. The job wasn't the problem, it was (same old story) crappy management and crappy policies that made it a miserable experience when it didn't need to be.

Just curious ... if you left UPS 12 years ago, why are you still obsessed with your experiences there?

I think a couple of years is all it takes me to get over something like that ; probably less.

 

[ih8tbrn]

I left UPS 2 weeks ago, part time work.

 

[Catatonic]

I left UPS 2 weeks ago, part time work.

Gotcha ... I can see your point then.

Good luck!

 

[bubsdad]

Gotcha ... I can see your point then.

Good luck!

And good riddance. More than enough negativity. Any time we can get rid of some it is a blessing. Good luck in your life away from brown.

 

[IH8No1]

Cuz UPS sucks. I'm no longer miserable but UPS (the company, not the workers) still sucks.

It must be distressing hating your job that badly.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Cuz UPS sucks. I'm no longer miserable but UPS (the company, not the workers) still sucks.

On a positive note ih8tbrn has been named "Employee of the Month" 2 months running at McDonald's. He received the award for his work in ensuring the French Fries remain upright in the bag at the drive-thru and that enough catsup and napkins go in to each bag. Good work!!

 

[705red]

I was part of the negotiating team here last year for our local agreement with UPS. We had a negotiator that is on the pay roll year round along with 20 plus UPS business agents and rank and filers from every work area of ups.

The negotiator knows the legality of negotiations, what to say what not to say, how to file charges if need be and the experience of negotiating contracts.

Here we the UPSers discussed the proposals and counter proposals and he walked us through our ideas and correct language. A lot of people busted our chops over changing will to shall. But when you read the definitions you will see how far apart the two words are.

I have said in the past that I want a worker/teamster negotiating on my behalf which I still stand by, because we know directly how the contract relates to our jobs. But you still need that negotiator to walk you through the process. IMO

 

[bubsdad]

I was part of the negotiating team here last year for our local agreement with UPS. We had a negotiator that is on the pay roll year round along with 20 plus UPS business agents and rank and filers from every work area of ups.

The negotiator knows the legality of negotiations, what to say what not to say, how to file charges if need be and the experience of negotiating contracts.

Here we the UPSers discussed the proposals and counter proposals and he walked us through our ideas and correct language. A lot of people busted our chops over changing will to shall. But when you read the definitions you will see how far apart the two words are.

I have said in the past that I want a worker/teamster negotiating on my behalf which I still stand by, because we know directly how the contract relates to our jobs. But you still need that negotiator to walk you through the process. IMO

I understand that. The point I was making was that we do pay people to negotiate a contract that should be followed. Seems that at times the company wants to stick to the letter of the contract and at other times they just want to "interpret" it to suit their needs.

 

[705red]

I understand that. The point I was making was that we do pay people to negotiate a contract that should be followed. Seems that at times the company wants to stick to the letter of the contract and at other times they just want to "interpret" it to suit their needs.

Bubs I have been there. A little more then 6 years ago we could not win a grievance and cases were traded away. We got feed up and put together a slate to run for local office. And for the first time in local 705's history the incumbent was voted out of office in a land slide. You in your local will reach a breaking point and when that happens people like yourself will need to stand up and make a run for it or at least get involved and assist those trying to do so, that's what I did and tons of others like myself.

If your interested pm me and I will assist you in starting up a campaign.

 

[UnconTROLLed]

Bubs I have been there. A little more then 6 years ago we could not win a grievance and cases were traded away. We got feed up and put together a slate to run for local office. And for the first time in local 705's history the incumbent was voted out of office in a land slide. You in your local will reach a breaking point and when that happens people like yourself will need to stand up and make a run for it or at least get involved and assist those trying to do so, that's what I did and tons of others like myself.

If your interested pm me and I will assist you in starting up a campaign.

705red, are stewards solely appointed by union reps in your local? Or are they elected positions?

 

[705red]

705red, are stewards solely appointed by union reps in your local? Or are they elected positions?

Elected every 3 years, but when someone shows interest after an election they have been appointed to see what they have.

 

[thelus]

im going to make it clear and i think local 705's leaders make it clear. the union is the man sweating his ass off in the package car or in the building doing a hard days work. not the guys sitting in the air condition union hall.

 

[The Other Side]

Its amazing how many months later, the decision by the majority of the membership NOT to participate in the contract voting process, come out to complain about crappy language contained it in

When this latest contract was proposed, I stood against it and tried to make it clear to everyone at UPS and at this site that it was "chockful" of givebacks and unuseful and unenforceable language.

At the end of the day, less than 10% of all UPS's took the time to vote.

Now, we are stuck with a contract that is complicating the job like never before. The Locals are completely unable to handle the problems that are arising out of TELEMATICS and this is bringing the stress levels of ALL drivers to new highs daily.

Now, I read where everyone wants to blame the locals????

SORRY, blame yourselves! Blame your coworkers if you voted and they didnt.

The Union was unable to comprehend the enevitable outcome of article 6 language which is seeing drivers fired on a weekly basis across this country.

But, the membership is to blame, they should have listened to reason, shot the contract down and negotiated better and enforceable language!

But thats history. Crying is over.

Electing new officers wont change a thing, the new ones would still have to deal with the crappy language until 2013.. Our fates are sealed until then.

The lesson here for us all is simple.

TAKE THE CONTRACT SERIOUSLY when its proposed.

If you dont, suffer. That simple.

Enjoy the pain, we got to bear it unitl 2013.

 

[trickpony1]

TOS-
I voted no on the contract.

If you will search for my thread entitled, "for those who didn't go to the meeting", I discussed what I thought was objectionable language in the contract during the meeting held specifically for this purpose at the union hall.

My observations were based on the opinion of union officials who scrutinized every new or altered language proposals.

I get the distinct feeling that the contract would have been ratified even if everyone voted "no".

I think there were 6 billion reasons why the contract was ratified. Sheer coincidence that's also the number of dollars the company paid to bail out of the pension fund.

 

[Catatonic]

TOS-
I voted no on the contract.

If you will search for my thread entitled, "for those who didn't go to the meeting", I discussed what I thought was objectionable language in the contract during the meeting held specifically for this purpose at the union hall.

My observations were based on the opinion of union officials who scrutinized every new or altered language proposals.

I get the distinct feeling that the contract would have been ratified even if everyone voted "no".

I think there were 6 billion reasons why the contract was ratified. Sheer coincidence that's also the number of dollars the company paid to bail out of the pension fund.

Unions are big businesses just like companies.

 

[705red]

Its amazing how many months later, the decision by the majority of the membership NOT to participate in the contract voting process, come out to complain about crappy language contained it in

When this latest contract was proposed, I stood against it and tried to make it clear to everyone at UPS and at this site that it was "chockful" of givebacks and unuseful and unenforceable language.

How did you voice against it on here when you became a member in Oct of 08 almost a year after it was a done deal????????????????

 

[tieguy]

The longer I'm a steward the more I wonder why we, (union and company), pay alot of people alot of money to negotiate a contract that neither side wants to abide by. There seems to be alot of grey area interpreted in by the company and the union allows it. Everything is written in black and white but this manager believes it means this and that manager believes it means that. The union won't stand with you unless it affects the chosen few. Get alot of, "gotta pick your battles with this economy and all...", "be glad you have a job...", "we have a local agreement on that..". Situations that are clearly addressed in the contract are not handled as the contract states and we get no backing from the union. People are clearly being wronged and the BA makes a deal with the company. I don't get it. The top guys don't care because it doesn't affect them. The guys in the middle don't want to "make any waves". And the guys on the bottom are left holding the bag. Thought the whole idea of a union was solidarity. We're all paying dues and should all be awarded the same rights.

We're in a time when many top notch companies have folded. Probably should worry more about remaining a viable business then about worrying about contractual interpretation.

I think GM does a great job of following thier contract. Maybe we can get it engraved on thier gravestone.

 

[ih8tbrn]

And good riddance. More than enough negativity. Any time we can get rid of some it is a blessing. Good luck in your life away from brown.

Yes......now the company will be wonderful again that I've gone. It's amazing how I single handedly dragged this multi-billion dollar company down in the short time I was there sorting smalls. I'm sorry everybody, please forgive me. And while I'm at it I won't be shipping weekly with UPS anymore so you won't get that bad karma from my packages either. Later asshats, you can all go yourselves now.

 

[blue efficacy]

I was just throwing that out there to see what kind of reaction I would get. This is why I always ensure that I take care of my own business and don't put myself in to situations where I have to rely on assistance that may not be there.

UPS is an especially malicious company and fires people for things that would get you lesser discipline at many other employers.
You can accidentally screw up somehow and where management might understand at other companies, you're fired from UPS and need the union to help get your job back.