Abortion
- Thread starter Overpaid Union Thug
- Start date
DriveInDriveOut
Inordinately Right
Temporarily. Stalling the inevitable. A last desperate grasp at forcing every Texan into Christian doctrine.
8 Hour Day
Well-Known Member
I don't think it's simply Christian doctrine at work, here. That's an easy scapegoat, but incorrect. That assumes only Christians believe the fetus to be a person with rights...
If it is wrong to kill an adult person, what about a juvenile?
What about a toddler?
What about a newborn?
What about a baby being born an nearly clear of the birth canal?
What about a fetus hours before birth?
Days?
Weeks?
Going backwards in age, when does the person no longer have access to rights as a person?
Once you accept it is wrong to kill a person, it gets very hard to justify it based on age or location in relation to the mother.
The canned answer to this is that it should be legal to abort a baby until it is viable outside the womb. By that logic, killing Stephen Hawking should be legal.
DriveInDriveOut
Inordinately Right
ok?
So I assume you're against the death penalty too?
It's complicated, don't try to over simplify it, because it is anything but simple.
The courts ruled on it, time to move on.
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8 Hour Day
Well-Known Member
Two separate issues. Nice attempt at a diversion, though.
DriveInDriveOut
Inordinately Right
It's not diversion it goes to the issue.
Either all life is sacred or none is.
Lots of opinions when it comes to these issues.
It's not so simple as some people try and make it.
8 Hour Day
Well-Known Member
All human life is sacred, yes...
People who commit crimes, however, have rights taken away. Which rights should be allowed to be taken, the integrity of the judicial systems taking those rights and many other factors contribute to the debate over the death penalty. It's a red herring argument you're introducing, though. No fetus has committed any crime.
As I originally stated, this isn't simply a debate about Christian doctrine. It's not about the death penalty (that's two diversions by you), but it's a debate about the right to even be alive essentially being denied based upon age and location in relation to the mother.
People who commit crimes, however, have rights taken away. Which rights should be allowed to be taken, the integrity of the judicial systems taking those rights and many other factors contribute to the debate over the death penalty. It's a red herring argument you're introducing, though. No fetus has committed any crime.
As I originally stated, this isn't simply a debate about Christian doctrine. It's not about the death penalty (that's two diversions by you), but it's a debate about the right to even be alive essentially being denied based upon age and location in relation to the mother.
DriveInDriveOut
Inordinately Right
Ok. I don't really care what you think about it to be honest though. It's the same old tired arguments over and over. The courts ruled on it...... Move on.
8 Hour Day
Well-Known Member
In other words, aside from diversions, you have no real argument. That makes sense because there is no logical/intellectual/educated/learned way to differentiate between killing the baby one second before it is born and one second after it is conceived.
I was adamantly pro-choice for most of my life. Once my brain grasped that it wasn't about a woman's right to choose, but another person's right to not be killed, my mindset changed.
As for the 'courts rules on it' line... There was a time the courts ruled a black man could be killed for running away. The courts abolished that nonsense, too.
DriveInDriveOut
Inordinately Right
Killing a baby ONE SECOND AFTER IT IS CONCEIVED? LMAO.
Are you seriously telling me the morning after pill is murder lol?
Listen, I think I'm done here, I know a hardline christian when I see it, and I know better than to talk common sense with them.
Yes the courts ruled for slavery, then they progressed with the rest of the country. The courts also ruled against abortion, then they progressed with the rest of the country. What you're talking about is going backwards.
8 Hour Day
Well-Known Member
Again, dodging the issue.
I'll simplify...
When does the fetus become a person with rights?
There are only two firm milestones... Conception and birth.
Everything else is a moving target...
I'll simplify...
When does the fetus become a person with rights?
There are only two firm milestones... Conception and birth.
Everything else is a moving target...
DriveInDriveOut
Inordinately Right
You're the one dodging the issue.
8 Hour Day
Well-Known Member
Can't answer it... You can't answer it because there is no way to answer it that leaves room for abortion to be okay.
It's okay to change your mind...
DriveInDriveOut
Inordinately Right
You're right it can't be answered. Not by a court, not by science, and not by religion. One thing that can be decided on is freedom of choice. You don't get to decide what someone else does with their body. The courts have decided that and you should move on.
Preach your religious beliefs from the rooftops if that's what you feel you need to do, but don't pretend this is a legal issue at this point. That ship has sailed.
teamer
Well-Known Member
Once you can justify the killing of one of those on your list it then becomes easier to work your way up to the others.
teamer
Well-Known Member
you would assume a ship can only sail in one direction?
8 Hour Day
Well-Known Member
Why are you bringing up religion? I haven't cited any religious anything.
I have simply applied reason while you have repeatedly inserted red herring responses.
It's as if the pro choice crowd wants to paint pro life people as being troglodyte religious zealots incapable of rational thought right up until they're required to formulate a rational thought of their own...
