Atheists

[bbsam]

Wow, wk. I just watched Ehrman and while I admire his passion, to me he just doesn't get it. He reminds me of a brilliant scientist who looks at the Mona Lisa and comments on the inferior quality of the paint. He sees the elements but misses the compound. He is tethered to the idea that the whole must be equal to the sum of it's parts and misses the "X" factor. He misses what the reader, the congregant, the worshiper, the sinner brings to the experience. There is a relationship and it is not one sided. I almost feel sorry for Ehrman. All that brilliance but an almost personal anger at religion.

 

[klein]

New poll :
in 2007 83% of Americans believed in God.
2012, only 63%

At this rate, religion in the US and probably Canada, too,
will be dead in no time !

 

[Jones]

New poll :
in 2007 83% of Americans believed in God.
2012, only 63%

At this rate, religion in the US and probably Canada, too,
will be dead in no time !

Got a link to that poll? I know that religious belief has declined somewhat in the US but 63% seems awfully low, I'm not sure I buy that.

 

[roadrunner2012]

 

[texan]

In my the Army I met and knew those who did not believe in the Most High God.

When grenades and bullets started coming in, some of them later asked where is the chalplin?

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

In my the Army I met and knew those who did not believe in the Most High God.

When grenades and bullets started coming in, some of them later asked where is the chalplin?

You find very few atheists in a foxhole.

 

[Jones]

You find very few atheists in a foxhole.

That's only because you find very few anywhere, atheists make up a very small percentage of the population. I've posted this before but here it is again: Atheists in Foxholes.

 

[klein]

Got a link to that poll? I know that religious belief has declined somewhat in the US but 63% seems awfully low, I'm not sure I buy that.

My little mishap and mistake :
The poll is for people age 30 and under :

Pew survey: Doubt of God growing quickly among millennials

By Dan Merica, CNN
Washington (CNN) – The percentage of Americans 30 and younger who harbor some doubts about God’s existence appears to be growing quickly, according to a recent Pew Research Center survey. While most young Americans, 68%, told Pew they never doubt God’s existence, that’s a 15-point drop in just five years.
In 2007, 83% of American millennials said they never doubted God’s existence.

 

[wkmac]

A Great Dialogue albeit most would see it as debate.

 

[wkmac]

If morality comes from god, then if true, atheists would be very immoral and thus a higher percentage of prison inmates to their proportion of total general population. Let's test this shall we?

From 1997' Federal Bureau of Prisons, statistics of religious affiliation.

Dear Mr. Swift:

The Federal Bureau of Prisons does have statistics on religious affiliations of inmates. The following are total number of inmates per religion category: Response Number % ---------------------------- --------
Catholic 29267 39.164%
Protestant 26162 35.008%
Muslim 5435 7.273%
American Indian 2408 3.222%
Nation 1734 2.320%
Rasta 1485 1.987%
Jewish 1325 1.773%
Church of Christ 1303 1.744%
Pentecostal 1093 1.463%
Moorish 1066 1.426%
Buddhist 882 1.180%
Jehovah Witness 665 0.890%
Adventist 621 0.831%
Orthodox 375 0.502%
Mormon 298 0.399%
Scientology 190 0.254%
Atheist 156 0.209%
Hindu 119 0.159%
Santeria 117 0.157%
Sikh 14 0.019%
Bahai 9 0.012%
Krishna 7 0.009%
---------------------------- --------
Total Known Responses 74731 100.001% (rounding to 3 digits does this)

source

Well that theory seems a bit in trouble at the very least.

In Fact!

 

[wkmac]

That's only because you find very few anywhere, atheists make up a very small percentage of the population. I've posted this before but here it is again: Atheists in Foxholes.

Marine Master Gunnery Sergeant Cody Heaps
Specialty: Intelligence Chief
Dates of Service: January 1991 - Present
Decorations: Bronze Star Medal, Navy and Marine Corps Commendation Medal, Joint Service Achievement Medal, Navy and Marine Corps Achievement Medal (2nd award), Combat Action Ribbon
Tours of duty: 2011-Pres 3D Marine Logistics Group Okinawa Japan, 2008-2011 1st Marine Aircraft Wing Okinawa Japan, 2007-2008 MNSTC-I Baghdad Iraq, 2006-2007 1st Marine Aircraft Wing Okinawa Japan, 2005-2006 6TH Marine Regiment Camp Lejeune NC, 2004-2005 24th Marine Expeditionary Unit (OIF2-1, 2-2, 3-1), 2002-2003 2nd Intelligence Battalion (OIF), 2001-2002 Joint Military Intelligence College Washington DC, 2000-2001 Navy & Marine Corps Intelligence Training Center Dam Neck VA, 1998-1999 HMM-266 (24th MEU) New River Air Station NC, 1996-1997 6TH Marine Regiment Camp Lejeune NC, 1996 JAC Molesworth England, 1995-1996 6TH Marine Regiment Camp Lejeune NC, 1994-1995 JTF-160 Cuba, 1994-1995 1st Battalion, 2nd Marines Camp Lejeune NC, 1993 2nd Battalion, 2nd Marines Camp Lejeune NC, 1991-1992 B Co Marine Barracks Philippines, 1991 MCRD, MCT & SOI Rifleman San Diego and Camp Pendleton CA
I started rejecting the theists' claims in summer 2009 while serving as an elder in the 7th Day Adventist Church. After 40+ years of faithful Christian service in two fundamental faiths, Latter-Day Saints (Missionary & Temple Worker) and 7th Day Adventist, I accepted the position that God is a myth and religions are a scam, based on exhaustive study in comparative religions and everything associated with the "New Atheist" Movement. Bottom Line: God never revealed himself to me so I had no reason to continue the delusion. I actually care if my beliefs are true and nothing infuriates me more than a theist who lacks the courage to be intellectually honest. So far, I have had a chaplain and former pastor admit, after hours of intense discussion, that they don't know if God exists either. Outside of a few faith-heads, most Marines I talk with are ambivalent, especially younger ones, towards the nature and existence of God. I hold no honor for anyone who 'lies for the Lord' so most chaplains just look sheepish and cowardly after they discover my secular, atheist position. So far, no worries but hell at this point in my career, take your best shot - I am ready!

Funny how that happens so much!

And Sgt. Heaps experience with clergy is not rare, could even become more common than you think. See The Clergy Project.

 

[over9five]

You find very few atheists in a foxhole.

I hate that statement. Has there really been a lot of polling done in foxholes?

If someone says "Oh God" in a foxhole, does that mean he's a believer? I say it a lot during sex, does that mean I'm a believer? "You find very few atheists having sex".

It's just a feel good statement for people who have zero proof of what they believe in.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

My take on this statement is that many a soldier has "found God" while crouching in a fox hole listening to bullets whiz by inches from their heads.

 

[over9five]

My take on this statement is that many a soldier has "found God" while crouching in a fox hole listening to bullets whiz by inches from their heads.

How many of those went back to being an Atheist after the shooting was over?

 

[klein]

How many of those went back to being an Atheist after the shooting was over?

Why would anyone shoot anyways ? Supposingly we are all God's children, and we shall love our neighbors !

 

[wkmac]

I hate that statement. Has there really been a lot of polling done in foxholes?

If someone says "Oh God" in a foxhole, does that mean he's a believer? I say it a lot during sex, does that mean I'm a believer? "You find very few atheists having sex".

It's just a feel good statement for people who have zero proof of what they believe in.

Are you saying you are not a believer in god?

 

[klein]

Are you saying you are not a believer in god?

You just noticed that now ? Where have you been mac ? LOL

 

[wkmac]

My take on this statement is that many a soldier has "found God" while crouching in a fox hole listening to bullets whiz by inches from their heads.

Is this a case of an atheist who has studied the issue, looked at the alleged evidence to determine no god exists or is it more common of what is called a "backsliding" soldier who had been doing their own thing so to speak and now the heat is on they return to a belief that gives them reason to think they might get out of this one?

Not saying an atheist in a foxhole can't have a miraculous conversation back to belief, my neighbor who'd been a lifetime atheist wasn't in a foxhole but a miraculous situation in her life took place and for her the only explanation was that god did it and she now believes. I actually believe we are biologically programmed to a belief in a god and this belief gene if you will has evolved to be incredibly strong. However I'll also concede all babies at birth are atheists and over time they just take on the belief of their parents as they are taught as they grow. We have a christian tradition in the west thanks to Roman conquest but erase that and our traditions would be the old polytheism and nature worship of pre-Roman days. I myself would likely have been raised with belief in Celtic or Norse gods of some type.

To a broader point, Klein seemed to suggest in an earlier post that atheism will almost displace belief soon and I don't believe that at all. What will likely happen is what has happened several times even in our own western traditions and that is god will evolve to adapt to new understandings. If one reads the bible (an exercise regardless of belief outcome I strongly encourage all to do) You will clearly see that the God to the patriarchs was different to the god of Moses and Israel and then god changed again during the period of the divided Kingdom, changed again during and post captivity, changed again with the advent of Jesus and in the last 2k years has modified yet again several times as our knowledge of life and state of nature has grown.

When Copernicus, Kepler and even Galileo forced man to rethink his place in the universe, it took a couple of hundred years for belief to change from a geocentric to a heliocentric world and now is completely comfortable and works in that world. Darwin, who at the time was christian himself proposed a new idea of the state of nature in evolution and then less than a century later Father George Lemaitre, discovered an expanding universe which became the big bang theory. Now evolutionary biology and genetic science is adding to evolutionary science and our ability to peer further and further into space is opening up the window of Lemaitre's worldview. What if we are finally able to see beyond our universe and see 1000's of other universes? The idea of coming from nothing so to speak gets thrown a real curve.

Now evolution and big bang are 2 separate concepts, one is biology and the other cosmology and separated by 10 billion years at least but the point is, like Copernicus, Kepler and Galileo, it has been christians themselves, not atheists, that have been the biggest force in undermining the present belief which in time ultimately displaces the old and becomes the new accepted belief. Atheists may just see the knowledge and evidence and like freethinkers back in the day who stayed hidden, are just getting out ahead of the knowledge acceptance curve.

Atheists are a very small minority and will remain so for the time being (that's how I see it and I am atheist) but christians like in so many other cases always need a scapegoat, a devil if you will to blame but the truth is, the biggest source of dramatic change in the world of belief comes from within your world to begin with. Maybe instead of looking outward, belief should look inward but then this might mean faith would have to read the very book on which it's suppose to be built and I like some here have said, "gee I just want to believe, not think about it!"

There's your first problem!

 

[Jones]

My take on this statement is that many a soldier has "found God" while crouching in a fox hole listening to bullets whiz by inches from their heads.

What evidence exists to support that statement? Even if it were true the implication is that the only reason people turn to a belief in god is because they're scared of dying and they're grabbing at straws.

 

[moreluck]

That's the nature of man.

If a father pulls out a big stick, all of a sudden the kid's like..."I'll be good, I'll be good!"

When someone is actually dying, they think,"Holy crap, what if all those people were right? Forgive me Lord!"