Cherry picking for easy warning letters...

[tieguy]

Is your name Tony?
Mind your business army of one.
I think Tony just felt sorry for you.
To think I stuck up for you just yesterday.

I'm still picking lead out of my from all the drive bys you gave me. The least you can do is let me get a few shots in return.

 

[grgrcr88]

Again you are now part of the I'm guessing about your management style based on the points you argue on a message board. If you're going to lecture me on getting the big picture then please try to get it yourself.

I jumped on this thread for two reasons

One to explain the companies focus on individual behaviors. Individual behaviors is easily the biggest single cause of injuries. The company believes we can learn to control those behaviors and is holding your management team accountable for whether you yourself work safely on the route. If you have an accident as a result of not following all the safety training you recieve your supervisor and manager get their buts kicked for not knowing you were out working unsafely. Thus they are out there spying on you to make sure you actually work safely and don't take shortcuts.

I also made the point that with this process there can be a disconnect between intent and how its translated. Sober does give some good examples of how that can happen. Observations can be hit or miss when they should capture how someone actually works.

The second point I jumped on was reraises claim that all the safety training his management team has done in 25 years has not prevented any injuries and accidents. anyone who knows anything about what is smith system based safety training knows this point is just not possible. Reraise has serious management hate issues he needs to learn to deal with as well as some of the other lugheads that chimed in once they see a management free for all here. I also find it funny that posters here who have such serious hate trips going on with management also claim that they have never gotten a warning letter in 25 years. I think there is something dishonest about that point too. You avoid a warning letter for 25 years by retaining the good will of your management team. If he has never gotten one then he has done his share of sucking up and politicing at work. But here he is acting like he is some kind of management ball buster.

So now I've' given you the big picture let me know what you think.

You are right, I drew a conclusion about you based on your posts on this board. I have nothing else to go on, and based on the information you have given the only conclusion I can come to, is that you actually believe the system of management currently being implemented across the country is working. I agree there are some here that are bashing just to be bashing, and that the companies training and methods are probably amoung the best in the country, if not the world.

The point I am trying to make, is that there are alot(77 pages to be exact) of methods to try and perform all day every day, some of them have not been used or enforced by anyony for quite a long time. It will take some time to get everyone in the routine of following them all day, every day. I simply think that by giving someone a warning letter for the first time they screw up the smallest of methods is wrong. All it does is cause ill feelings and mistrust towards management from hourlies. As I said, I believe in the methods, I think that following them is key in keeping myself safe and effective throughout the day. I have no problem with a sup, going out and watching a driver perform his tasks while taking diligent notes on what could be improved upon and then after the observation, stopping that driver, sitting down with him over a cold bottle of water and telling or showing them what they did that needs improvement, while at the same time telling him what a great job he has done!!! If that does not work, then perhaps a formal talk with or a warning letter may be in order to grab someones attention.

I believe the new management philosiphy of writing everyone up for every little thing is lazyness in its true form. A manager that is too lazy to actually train his employees will throw paper at the problem instead of correcting the behavior that is causing it!!!

 

[tieguy]

There are no double standards at the Brown Cafe. There are managers that know everything, and hourly that do everthing. Simple in design. Effective in gettin it done.

Besides, I am too busy keeping you well to be able to ride saddle on another hourly.

Was that an angus valve? I have been noticing a change in behavior...........

d

The double standard is displayed throughout this thread and not raised until a moderator finally stepped in and addressed some comments from the union side that were every bit as outrageous as anything socks ever said.

I understand is all about soladarity and all but its funny watching you guys supporting some of the stupidity that is spewed by some of the management haters here. I should create another id here and pretend to be one of you spewing some idiotic crap and see how far I have to push it before one of you has the courage to object.

 

[Coldworld]

You are right, I drew a conclusion about you based on your posts on this board. I have nothing else to go on, and based on the information you have given the only conclusion I can come to, is that you actually believe the system of management currently being implemented across the country is working. I agree there are some here that are bashing just to be bashing, and that the companies training and methods are probably amoung the best in the country, if not the world.

The point I am trying to make, is that there are alot(77 pages to be exact) of methods to try and perform all day every day, some of them have not been used or enforced by anyony for quite a long time. It will take some time to get everyone in the routine of following them all day, every day. I simply think that by giving someone a warning letter for the first time they screw up the smallest of methods is wrong. All it does is cause ill feelings and mistrust towards management from hourlies. As I said, I believe in the methods, I think that following them is key in keeping myself safe and effective throughout the day. I have no problem with a sup, going out and watching a driver perform his tasks while taking diligent notes on what could be improved upon and then after the observation, stopping that driver, sitting down with him over a cold bottle of water and telling or showing them what they did that needs improvement, while at the same time telling him what a great job he has done!!! If that does not work, then perhaps a formal talk with or a warning letter may be in order to grab someones attention.

I believe the new management philosiphy of writing everyone up for every little thing is lazyness in its true form. A manager that is too lazy to actually train his employees will throw paper at the problem instead of correcting the behavior that is causing it!!!

Good post. I totally agree with you but the thing that upsets me the most is when they know that your going out with a fail day and wont do anything about it. They kNOW your load is bad but come out with you and try to justify why that doesnt matter. Should I have the same selection time in a nice neat walkthrough load than the guy with a cubed out p-12 that is trying his hardest but cant find things...doesnt make sense period.

 

[Coldworld]

Good post. I totally agree with you but the thing that upsets me the most is when they know that your going out with a fail day and wont do anything about it. They kNOW your load is bad but come out with you and try to justify why that doesnt matter. Should I have the same selection time in a nice neat walkthrough load than the guy with a cubed out p-12 that is trying his hardest but cant find things...doesnt make sense period.

I meant should have different selection time... oh well, like they say, "its all factored in!!!"

 

[onewithedd]

So, what is the big push with mirrors being pulled in? I was called in with the steward and told I was receiving a warning letter for not doing this at a couple of stops, while they were out on one of thier "over supervised" spy trips. I don't usually say a word in these meetings, I just listen and leave. They haven't quite figured out that when I pull it in it sticks out about a 1/2" farther than in its normal state. I sure am glad management knows more about their equipment than I do. I mean afterall I only drive it five days a week.

 

[Raw]

I just had 3 post`s removed from this thread for stating my opinion as a over 20 year driver. I must have hit a " raw " nerve with the mgmt. person I was having a discussion with and he/she complained to Tony. ( my deduction ) . I can see he/she couldn`t have a heated discussion on an even playing field without their bully pulpit being the UPS building. ( my opinion ). Very good post`s by grgrcr88, coldworld, and onewithedd just before this post. I said the same thing but got my post`s removed. Good info on not all route`s time studied fair and mirror`s on the new trucks do stick out more when re-tracted! FYI - The same things I said on this thread and got removed are the same things I say to management in person. Strange how with this warning letter new safety crackdown company wide that their are MORE accidents the last 2 years than ever before. Maybe that new push for increased SPORH is the cause? ( my opinion)

 

[CharleyHustle]

I understand is all about soladarity and all but its funny watching you guys supporting some of the stupidity that is spewed by some of the management haters here. I should create another id here and pretend to be one of you spewing some idiotic crap and see how far I have to push it before one of you has the courage to object. [/QUOTE]

This is the culture now at UPS. Management haters and hourly haters. Some will disagree, but I think it was better back in the day. We had the "least best" 20%, if you were in the 20% you had to be on your game, if not you could relax. Not anymore, everyone is fair game. Read through the threads here, honk your horn, stop complete, ect... There really aren't vary many drivers following the methods, if they know the methods.

If you have one driver not honking at every stop, or stop completing in the pkg car then delivering, or not using 10 and 2, well you can blame that driver. But if the vast majority aren't using prescribed methods, then I think you know who's to blame. Since I started reading this thread I've tried to use 10 and 2 all day every day and I will admit I can't do it. I start off fine, but then slip up when I'm not fully concentrating on it, which I'm not sure is good for the rest of my daily tasks. 26yrs is hard to break old habits, but then 10 and 2 has never been at the top of my priority list.

I don't know sober or his boss, but if there is a problem there, why is it sobers responsabilty to start the conversation? shouldn't the boss talk first? Maybe he has? The point well taken is that there are so many rules and methods and dos and not dos, that it is impossable to be in compliance all the time every time. The message is that if you are on the list you can be had, and it certainly isn't that hard for management to do. There are so many rules that falable human beings have trouble following 100% of the time, so it's very easy to catch the one you want, sounds like a well thoughtout plan or ......conspiracy.

 

[brownmonster]

I rode with a district guy the other day and I had to keep telling him to walk behind the truck to cross the street instead of in front of it. He didn't see the point of taking longer to do something that really isn't any safer. He always taught drivers to go out of the closest door. Hard to keep up with all the methods when they keep changing.

 

[tieguy]

I just had 3 post`s removed from this thread for stating my opinion as a over 20 year driver. I must have hit a " raw " nerve with the mgmt. person ( my opinion)

Perhaps you managed to make a fool of yourself without my help?

 

[tieguy]

I don't know sober or his boss, but if there is a problem there, why is it sobers responsabilty to start the conversation? shouldn't the boss talk first? Maybe he has? The point well taken is that there are so many rules and methods and dos and not dos, that it is impossable to be in compliance all the time every time. The message is that if you are on the list you can be had, and it certainly isn't that hard for management to do. There are so many rules that falable human beings have trouble following 100% of the time, so it's very easy to catch the one you want, sounds like a well thoughtout plan or ......conspiracy.

good post overall. I think Sober has questions about his treatment and the message being sent that he needs to get answered. he can vent here all he wants but won't get those questions answered unless he goes to the source.

 

[tonyexpress]

I just had 3 post`s removed from this thread for stating my opinion as a over 20 year driver. I must have hit a " raw " nerve with the mgmt. person I was having a discussion with and he/she complained to Tony. ( my deduction ) . I can see he/she couldn`t have a heated discussion on an even playing field without their bully pulpit being the UPS building. ( my opinion ). Very good post`s by grgrcr88, coldworld, and onewithedd just before this post. I said the same thing but got my post`s removed. Good info on not all route`s time studied fair and mirror`s on the new trucks do stick out more when re-tracted! FYI - The same things I said on this thread and got removed are the same things I say to management in person. Strange how with this warning letter new safety crackdown company wide that their are MORE accidents the last 2 years than ever before. Maybe that new push for increased SPORH is the cause? ( my opinion)

Your post was not as ANGELIC as you recall and called management morons among other insults clearly not staying within the TOS. This is why it was deleted!

 

[Bubblehead]

I just had 3 post`s removed from this thread for stating my opinion as a over 20 year driver. I must have hit a " raw " nerve with the mgmt. person I was having a discussion with and he/she complained to Tony. ( my deduction ) . I can see he/she couldn`t have a heated discussion on an even playing field without their bully pulpit being the UPS building. ( my opinion ). Very good post`s by grgrcr88, coldworld, and onewithedd just before this post. I said the same thing but got my post`s removed. Good info on not all route`s time studied fair and mirror`s on the new trucks do stick out more when re-tracted! FYI - The same things I said on this thread and got removed are the same things I say to management in person. Strange how with this warning letter new safety crackdown company wide that their are MORE accidents the last 2 years than ever before. Maybe that new push for increased SPORH is the cause? ( my opinion)

Raw,
Apparently what you need to do is get a little more outrageous with your insulting coments like Socks, SalesGuy, and other mangement types do. That way it can be shrugged off as comedy or satire. I'm still a proponent for both management and hourlies being moderated on the same criteria. Once again, I like Tony, am not offended by Socks and don't take his insults seriously. Obviously, by the reactions of others, they are offended. In the end, it's not my call, but it is my opinion, to which I am entitled.

 

[tieguy]

Raw,
Apparently what you need to do is get a little more outrageous with your insulting coments like Socks, SalesGuy, and other mangement types do. That way it can be shrugged off as comedy or satire. I'm still a proponent for both management and hourlies being moderated on the same criteria. Once again, I like Tony, am not offended by Socks and don't take his insults seriously. Obviously, by the reactions of others, they are offended. In the end, it's not my call, but it is my opinion, to which I am entitled.

As one who has had a few posts deleted I'm grateful to see some balance in the deleting of posts from the other side.

This thread was turning into a run away train wreck until Tony stepped in and gave it some direction. Did ya notice that we got more participation from more posters once Tony put the brakes on the insanity?

you are entitled to your opinion however here you should apply it where it does not offend our hosts. We are fortunate they have created this house for us to lob grenades in.


Time to stop the whining, lick your wounds and move on. There is nothing to see here anymore.

 

[dilligaf]

As one who has had a few posts deleted I'm grateful to see some balance in the deleting of posts from the other side.

This thread was turning into a run away train wreck until Tony stepped in and gave it some direction. Did ya notice that we got more participation from more posters once Tony put the brakes on the insanity?

Time to stop the whining, lick your wounds and move on. There is nothing to see here anymore.

Tie, you know as well as I do that there will ALWAYS be someone whining.

 

[Bubblehead]

I'm still picking lead out of my from all the drive bys you gave me. The least you can do is let me get a few shots in return.

As one who has had a few posts deleted I'm grateful to see some balance in the deleting of posts from the other side.

This thread was turning into a run away train wreck until Tony stepped in and gave it some direction. Did ya notice that we got more participation from more posters once Tony put the brakes on the insanity?

you are entitled to your opinion however here you should apply it where it does not offend our hosts. We are fortunate they have created this house for us to lob grenades in.


Time to stop the whining, lick your wounds and move on. There is nothing to see here anymore.

Per your earlier request, I'm going to give you this one.
I'll get ya later.

 

[UPSSOCKS]

Warning Letter = 1 point
3 Day Suspension = 3 points
5 Day Suspension = 5 points
10 Day = 10 points
Terminations = 20 points'

All Point totals only count if it sticks. If you terminate someone and they greive it to a ten day, only ten points are awarded. Everyone puts 100 bucks in a hat and at the end of each quarter the scores are added up. Winner takes the hat.

 

[onewithedd]

When I started working for UPS in 93 as a preloader, it was a awsome place to work. Morale was great in the whole center, their was never talk about warning letters and the disention that there is nowadays. For pete sakes, when I started you could smoke in the building, walk on the belt while it was running. We only had a Center Manager, no preload sup, daytime sup, or pm sup. Things never ran more smoothly, I remember one day we ran the belt at full speed for the sort, we were busting our asses to do it but we got done almost an hour early and never stopped the belt once. Fun Days!

Now there is disention in the ranks everywhere, we can't keep help, they continually threaten the loaders and drivers with warning letters. I have watched this company change over the years and it's not good. We are losing customers, and good employees, everyday it seems my bulk stops at certain stops grow smaller as Fred's grow larger.

It's a great job and I love the work, but the over management and micro management has gotten totaly out of hand. I mean come on 6 other work codes just to do the airport shuttle, how more micro can it get.

A good IT department is essential for us to succeed, but if UPS reduced its management by 1/2 and quit harassing everyone, hell, if they eliminated all the over-supervision we have then guess what? Preloads would probably get done sooner, as they would be happier, and they would probably have less missed packages because we as drivers all know what teamwork is and would work to get it all delivered, but with all the harrassing and politcal crap that goes on, alot of us I'm sure, have lost interest in teamwork. I know I have, and I don't like that.

 

[trickpony1]

Prepare to be asked, ".....if you don't like it, why don't you quit?".

 

[Re-Raise]

I guess they have to justify their job somehow.

I still contend there is no correlation between an increase in this type of warning letter and a decrease in accidents and injuries.

It is about covering their ass , not about causing any real change.