Production termination!

[ups_vette]

So it absolutely does affect the planned day. UPS doesn't factor into our planned day, when we have to double loop our rtes. .

Another example of you not knowing what you're talking about. This shows you haven't the slightest clue how a driver's planned is determined. If a driver has to "double loop a route" the miles will increase and the more miles a driver goes the more planned time will be added to the planned day.

 

[dannyboy]

Vette

Let me clarify please?

The example you give will affect your Sporh, but it will not affect over under allowances.

For example,

Day one go out with 100 stops, 112 miles, get in 8.5 hours. Take the lunch out on road. You run 11.76 Sporh and say -.25 under allowed.

Day two, got 114 stops, 132 miles and get in 10.75 hours. You run a 10.9 Sporh, but you beat the standards by -.37 hours. And you took your lunch out on road.

If instead you take your lunch back at the center, you can cut the miles down to 116, and shave 1.25 hours off your planned day, leaving you with 9.5 hours and a Sporh of 12.0, and -.33 under allowed.

So yes, your Sporh will increase if you dont have to do a lot of back tracking, but your over/under should be close either way. You did more miles, so your allowances are better. Any time you can decrease miles, your Sporh will increase.

This is why production is a two headed beast. It is both the Sporh and the over/under numbers. One is good, two are better at getting to the real number that is there.

In the case of the driver that got fired, not only was e 3-5 stops per hour down, but he was also 3-4 hours over allowed each day. Both together are something hard to argue against.

Especially if you dont offer some explanation of why.

d

 

[dilligaf]

Dill

you are comparing oranges to apples to grapes.

When you talk about breaking off to get an area, that is a different matter. In that case, you are not comparing identical routes with identical days. You are comparing a light or average day with one that is heavier. So its not the lunch that is the factor, but the work.

d

Lunch is a factor when you start taking your lunch per the contract or you don't take your lunch until the end of the day to avoid missed business.

 

[dilligaf]

It actually doesn't. It is actually a mathematical formula. He is right. For specifically ON ROAD HOURS and SPORH it has no affect. It may "affect your day" or "mood" or "hunger" and a million other things, but the math is there. Look at the OR and see.

The more minutes and the more miles you add, by double and sometimes triple looping your rte does affect your SPORH. Can I get an AMEN on that?

 

[stevetheupsguy]

The more minutes and the more miles you add, by double and sometimes triple looping your rte does affect your SPORH. Can I get an AMEN on that?

I hear ya, sistah. Required miles is what I think you mean. Victory lap miles are a no no.

 

[trplnkl]

The more minutes and the more miles you add, by double and sometimes triple looping your rte does affect your SPORH. Can I get an AMEN on that?

Amen

 

[dannyboy]

Dill

I have posted that yes it does. But what it should not affect is your over/under, which usually is a much better barometer of your day than just Sporh. It takes into account your whole day, not just the stops you had. Same way an additional 100 packages will affect your Sporh.

d

 

[brownmonster]

I wonder what Steve's PPORH is.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

I wonder what Steve's PPORH is.

So do I.

 

[dilligaf]

Dill

I have posted that yes it does. But what it should not affect is your over/under, which usually is a much better barometer of your day than just Sporh. It takes into account your whole day, not just the stops you had. Same way an additional 100 packages will affect your Sporh.

d

Daniel, I don't give a rats fuzzy about over/under. 90% of our drivers are over-allowed everyday. The time studies are bad. I don't look at SPORH. Don't care. I don't compare myself to what others do. I go out and do my job. And those that want to name call and flame and point fingers need to look at the three fingers that are pointing back at themselves. Don't even go there.

My point, which has gotten side tracked, is this: It changes your day if you violate the contract and take your lunch after you are done delivering. If I take my lunch during the day, when I am supposed to, (BTW- I do take my lunch everyday when I am supposed) it can cause me to double loop areas of my rte. As can having a crapload of air. This is especially true of rural rtes and rtes like my stewards, that is partial rural and partial in town. It makes the day longer. Anytime you break trace it adds miles and time to the rte.

Now, I have a point of order. If you (anyone) are waiting to the end of the day to take your lunch and or breaks then why bother at all? I can hear it now, "I want to go home. I'll just skip my breaks and go home a little earlier." Or, "I don't need to take my lunch today. My kids have a baseball game and I need to go home."

 

[ups79]

Daniel, I don't give a rats fuzzy about over/under. 90% of our drivers are over-allowed everyday. The time studies are bad. I don't look at SPORH. Don't care. I don't compare myself to what others do. I go out and do my job. And those that want to name call and flame and point fingers need to look at the three fingers that are pointing back at themselves. Don't even go there.

My point, which has gotten side tracked, is this: It changes your day if you violate the contract and take your lunch after you are done delivering. If I take my lunch during the day, when I am supposed to, (BTW- I do take my lunch everyday when I am supposed) it can cause me to double loop areas of my rte. As can having a crapload of air. This is especially true of rural rtes and rtes like my stewards, that is partial rural and partial in town. It makes the day longer. Anytime you break trace it adds miles and time to the rte.

Now, I have a point of order. If you (anyone) are waiting to the end of the day to take your lunch and or breaks then why bother at all? I can hear it now, "I want to go home. I'll just skip my breaks and go home a little earlier." Or, "I don't need to take my lunch today. My kids have a baseball game and I need to go home."

I know for a fact that some drivers in an extended area took delight in traveling as far out in the rte and then driving all the way back to take lunch. Then driving all the way out to the furtherest point on their rte to begin their loop again. To me, all that involved was padding their miles. The biggest problem with this is(in addition to it being unethical) the people running rtes next to him always got work off of him because he would bitch about his over 9.5's.

 

[dannyboy]

Daniel, I don't give a rats fuzzy about over/under. 90% of our drivers are over-allowed everyday. The time studies are bad. I don't look at SPORH. Don't care.

Then whats the point of the conversation?

Those are means to measure yourself and compare your effort of today against what you ran yesterday, last week etc. Accurate or not, they are a level benchmark that will yield very useful information. And the over/under are the more accurate of the two, where as the Sporh is the quicker and simpler, but less accurate as to what you had to deal with during the day.

But like I said, with the rats fuzzy dont care, whats the point?

d

 

[dilligaf]

I know for a fact that some drivers in an extended area took delight in traveling as far out in the rte and then driving all the way back to take lunch. Then driving all the way out to the furtherest point on their rte to begin their loop again. To me, all that involved was padding their miles. The biggest problem with this is(in addition to it being unethical) the people running rtes next to him always got work off of him because he would bitch about his over 9.5's.

I agree with you. I don't do it nor do I approve of it. However, there are rtes that you don't have any choice in it. The rural rte that I do (posted pics on other thread) I don't get to take my lunch until shortly after 3pm. I have to get the post office and 3pm p/u's done first. And that is the earliest that I'm in a position to do lunch.

We have a rte that is 75/80% resi. I have to break off and travel a good distance to take lunch. It's just one of those things that happens on that particular rte. We are not allowed more than a mile off rte for lunch but with this rte I have to travel well over a mile ( at the closest point).

 

[dilligaf]

Then whats the point of the conversation?

Those are means to measure yourself and compare your effort of today against what you ran yesterday, last week etc. Accurate or not, they are a level benchmark that will yield very useful information. And the over/under are the more accurate of the two, where as the Sporh is the quicker and simpler, but less accurate as to what you had to deal with during the day.

But like I said, with the rats fuzzy dont care, whats the point?

d

My point was not the sporh or over/under allowed. My point was that when you take lunch affects your planned day. I am on a different rte all the time. I don't waste my time trying to keep up with what my sporh or over allowed is from day to day. I don't have time nor do I care to. If I was on an assigned rte then it would be a different story. And I probably would keep track off that. But it is not the way it is right now.

 

[dilligaf]

AMEN we have alot of i call "newbies" who are so intimidated by management they run their lunches run up driveways take the short cuts i call it TEMP MENTALITY they have a hard time following contract because they think if they dont come in under they will get in trouble, they are scared to stand up for themselves and on certain runs they make it immpossible for the rest of us to meet those stanards, we have at least six people who take there lunch at the end of the day at the building after they put there back in building time in. Tell me that doesnt help there sporh.

Some of us try to tell them the way it should be, take your lunch and breaks and youse your methods, your career will be much longer, you have allready made it you are a teamster now and if you dont slack off and you youse your methods, and do the job the way we should, then when you get back you get back, dont fret the little stuff our job is stressful enough without worrying bout how fast we deliver. And your union will be there to back you.

I am seeing a sad trend of "NEWBIES" coming in and not really caring what the union thinks and they are basicly falling into the hands of management and bieng molded into lunch running, fast driving, driveway running zombies. I try to get so many people to go to our local meeting every month and i have not had alot of success at this.

We all need to be on the same page there might be less of the old "well so and so can do that run faster than you, Keep running your numbers up you will get an atta boy from your sup and more work and i promise a shorter career

It makes a huge difference when you take your lunch.

Danny I was responding to Backinbrown. You actually proved that sporh is affected by when you take lunch. I'm not trying to get in a pissin match with you. You'd probably win. But you did prove my point.

And as far as others, I won't be treated or talked to like I'm stupid. You want to go that direction then you'll have a war.

 

[Ms.PacMan]

Taking your lunch when you get back to the building does not affect your on road time. As long as you actually take lunch, it does not matter when you take it as it has no bearing on on road time.

Now if you dont take all your lunch, yes it will affect the production.

Do you show a time back to the bldg then lunch or lunch then time back to the bldg.? I think there would be a timecard error for the former.

Given we all have an allowance to and from our area and a rural driver or a metro driver with a long commute or traffic for that matter, might have a 30-40 minute time allowance, would lunch show you on area even if you were at the bldg and would punching out right after lunch screw you out of your back to bldg. time allowance from your area?

 

[dilligaf]

Do you show a time back to the bldg then lunch or lunch then time back to the bldg.? I think there would be a timecard error for the former.

Given we all have an allowance to and from our area and a rural driver or a metro driver with a long commute or traffic for that matter, might have a 30-40 minute time allowance, would lunch show you on area even if you were at the bldg and would punching out right after lunch screw you out of your back to bldg. time allowance from your area?

Technically if you are following the contract you won't have to worry about what to enter first, building time or lunch.

We used to get chewed out because if we timed into building first and then took lunch or break it affected the nite sort numbers. Then we had a sup come in and tell us to start putting our breaks under other work 'V'-paid break, in the diad. It has worked out beautifully. It doesn't affect nite sort numbers, and we have an accurate record of when we took our breaks.

 

[Ms.PacMan]

Technically if you are following the contract you won't have to worry about what to enter first, building time or lunch.

I am lucky enough to live on my area and go home for lunch.

Let me weigh in and say what I'm really thinking. I agree with Danny that taking your lunch at the end of the day would not affect a driver's sporh. But I'm wondering if taking a lunch after you have driven back to the bldg will because.....?

What is on road? As far as sporh is concerned I thought it did not include drive time back and forth to the bldg. Is a driver's time allowance for the drive back automatically taken off the total time or subtracted from the time a driver punches out?

 

[trplnkl]

I am lucky enough to live on my area and go home for lunch.

Let me weigh in and say what I'm really thinking. I agree with Danny that taking your lunch at the end of the day would not affect a driver's sporh. But I'm wondering if taking a lunch after you have driven back to the bldg will because.....?

What is on road? As far as sporh is concerned I thought it did not include drive time back and forth to the bldg. Is a driver's time allowance for the drive back automatically taken off the total time or subtracted from the time a driver punches out?

To/from miles are part of the SPORH calculation.

 

[dilligaf]

Vette

Let me clarify please?

The example you give will affect your Sporh, but it will not affect over under allowances.

For example,

Day one go out with 100 stops, 112 miles, get in 8.5 hours. Take the lunch out on road. You run 11.76 Sporh and say -.25 under allowed.

Day two, got 114 stops, 132 miles and get in 10.75 hours. You run a 10.9 Sporh, but you beat the standards by -.37 hours. And you took your lunch out on road.

If instead you take your lunch back at the center, you can cut the miles down to 116, and shave 1.25 hours off your planned day, leaving you with 9.5 hours and a Sporh of 12.0, and -.33 under allowed.

So yes, your Sporh will increase if you dont have to do a lot of back tracking, but your over/under should be close either way. You did more miles, so your allowances are better. Any time you can decrease miles, your Sporh will increase.

This is why production is a two headed beast. It is both the Sporh and the over/under numbers. One is good, two are better at getting to the real number that is there.

In the case of the driver that got fired, not only was e 3-5 stops per hour down, but he was also 3-4 hours over allowed each day. Both together are something hard to argue against.

Especially if you dont offer some explanation of why.

d

I am lucky enough to live on my area and go home for lunch.

Let me weigh in and say what I'm really thinking. I agree with Danny that taking your lunch at the end of the day would not affect a driver's sporh. But I'm wondering if taking a lunch after you have driven back to the bldg will because.....?

What is on road? As far as sporh is concerned I thought it did not include drive time back and forth to the bldg. Is a driver's time allowance for the drive back automatically taken off the total time or subtracted from the time a driver punches out?

Danny already proved that it does affect the numbers that UPS is ever so vigilate to protect. My only point was that 'when' you take lunch does affect the numbers, not by how much.