Terminated For Gross Negligence

[trickpony1]

Finally, after 118 posts, post #119 aptly summed up the situation. Kudos to Dannyboy for taking the time to analyze the situation and provide a response based upon this analysis and not upon emotion or personal opinion.

Intersections governed by flashing signals are among the most dangerous as we all know that the travel lanes controlled by the flashing yellow lights are not going to slow and proceed with caution as they are supposed to but rather will continue at their current rate of speed while those travelling in the lanes governed by the flashing red lights will continue to grow impatient and perhaps may take a chance rather than wait until they are 100% certain that the intersection has been cleared and that it is safe to proceed. We have several large intersections where I deliver and it is always a treat whenever the traffic signals are not working and are flashing yellow/red. It is actually a real-life study in human nature, as the agressive drivers blow right through and the timid ones sit and wait and sit and wait and...

Hindsight is always 20/20, but I would bet my mortgage that if the driver in question did an honest, objective review of his actions preceeding this accident that he, in fact, did not wait for the intersection to fully clear, grew impatient, and "went for it". Unfortunately, the seconds that he may have saved have grown into a lifetime of regret.

Good point. Maybe the driver in question should have turned right at the intersection driven a short distance and then turned left and resumed his travels so he could be called into the office the next morning and fired because he diverted from trace, was overallowed, was padding miles, was not working as instructed or any one of a number of excuses that management will pull out of their lower extremities.

 

[trplnkl]

Oh come on now, do you people have reading disabilities? Granted all the info wasn't posted at one time, big deal. There is no reason to post the police report, the important facts were already posted. The police said the UPS driver was NOT AT FAULT. The witnesses said (per the police report) that the MC driver was speeding ( UPS investigators est. 64-80 mph) at an unsafe speed and WEAVING (<BIG WORD HERE) in and out of traffic. The oncoming traffic minus the MC could have well been at a safe distance for the PC driver to proceed through the intersection, while other vehicles could well have hidden the MC from view.

UP$ safe driving methods teach us to look l-r-l and clear the intersection before proceeding, to do otherwise is a violation of the methods. The MC, speeding 65-80 mph, hidden behind other vehicles and weaving around vehicles that are at a safe distance is not much different than something falling from the sky. I don't see a case of violation of methods.
If all the information, although sketchy, is correct the PC driver should not have ever been terminated to begin with.
Given all this is true, I would not have accepted the combo offer either. I would have expected to win my case on the facts. It really does not sound to me this was decided on the facts, but an attempt by the company to cover their own backside. The statement was made by someone that the company offered the combo job because they didn't want to ruin this guy's life. I call BS on that. They offered that combo in an attempt to silence the driver and put this behind them with yet another backside covering. In a fair and just world the only time he would have lost was the time for the investigation.

 

[dannyboy]

Trick

How many people have you represented in hearings that were 100% inocent of all of the charges that UPS brought against them?

In my case, very few. And for sure not on situations like this.

TR

I am not saying that he is guilty, I am saying that per his postings and the suposed lack of understanding on how to post on this site, that either we are dealing with a troll, someone that is not very honest in his postings, or someone that is pretty stupid. If I were totally not at fault, I would have posted the following

1 The complete recounting of the accident with all the details
2 The accident report with the personal info deleted
3 Any UPS correspondence
4 Any hearing correspondence.

All we have right now is his rantings on how he is not at fault in any way JUST BECAUSE THE GUY WAS NOT DRIVING LIKE HE SHOULD HAVE. THat does not float with me

I sure would not have made my first statement that I want to get even with ups if what I am looking for is help to get my job back.

So there you have it. I have seen guys like this come in for help from the union and try to play games, even when their job is at stake. Sorry, dont have the time for BS.

Now, if he is serious, I have some ideas that might help him, after all, read my first post on this thread. But with all the cyberspace he has wasted thus far and still has refused to give much more than some small droppings of information.............

d

 

[trplnkl]

I would not have posted it in the same manner he did either. Although, you obviously have vast experience posting on message boards on the internet as I also have, many people don't. I'm not sure I would have used the word stupid, maybe substitute something like "less experienced". But you choose your words I choose mine.

Now, if he is serious, I have some ideas that might help him, after all, read my first post on this thread. But with all the cyberspace he has wasted thus far and still has refused to give much more than some small droppings of information.............

The guy has answered nearly all questions asked of him. Some people just lack the skill to put things together in a cognitive form. That doesn't always equate to stupid or dishonest or trollish.

How many people have you represented in hearings that were 100% inocent of all of the charges that UPS brought against them?

In my case, very few. And for sure not on situations like this.

I'm sorry, but statements like this don't exactly encourage the free flow of information.
Now if this guy turns out to be a troll, I will post a weeks worth of posts with scrambled egg on my face.

 

[filthpig]

Thats the clincher right there. You don't move on a red flashing light until you are sure its clear.

You're saying the guy that hit you and died had flashing YELLOW and you had flashing RED? And you're wondering why you lost your job?!?! You're lucky you're not in prison. That accident was your fault ALL THE WAY.

 

[trplnkl]

You're saying the guy that hit you and died had flashing YELLOW and you had flashing RED? And you're wondering why you lost your job?!?! You're lucky you're not in prison. That accident was your fault ALL THE WAY.

Not according to the police report

 

[filthpig]

Weather was sunny... it was during the day... I had red flashing lights, he had yellow flashing lights... very busy intersection..

This was the entry I meant to quote. As I said, you don't have a leg to stand on and are lucky you didn't go to jail.

 

[filthpig]

Not according to the police report

What police report? That's just the law. The motorcycle rider had the ROW. A flashing red means you yield to ALL cross traffic.

 

[laurietito]

Finally, after 118 posts, post #119 aptly summed up the situation. Kudos to Dannyboy for taking the time to analyze the situation and provide a response based upon this analysis and not upon emotion or personal opinion.

Intersections governed by flashing signals are among the most dangerous as we all know that the travel lanes controlled by the flashing yellow lights are not going to slow and proceed with caution as they are supposed to but rather will continue at their current rate of speed while those travelling in the lanes governed by the flashing red lights will continue to grow impatient and perhaps may take a chance rather than wait until they are 100% certain that the intersection has been cleared and that it is safe to proceed. We have several large intersections where I deliver and it is always a treat whenever the traffic signals are not working and are flashing yellow/red. It is actually a real-life study in human nature, as the agressive drivers blow right through and the timid ones sit and wait and sit and wait and...

Hindsight is always 20/20, but I would bet my mortgage that if the driver in question did an honest, objective review of his actions preceeding this accident that he, in fact, did not wait for the intersection to fully clear, grew impatient, and "went for it". Unfortunately, the seconds that he may have saved have grown into a lifetime of regret.

You would lose your mortgage, the intersection was clear, there is even video showing I completely stopped and waited my turn

 

[trplnkl]

What police report? That's just the law. The motorcycle rider had the ROW. A flashing red means you yield to ALL cross traffic.

Ya know it would be nice that you read the whole thread BEFORE you start passing judgment.

 

[laurietito]

This was the entry I meant to quote. As I said, you don't have a leg to stand on and are lucky you didn't go to jail.

You don't know...... I am not lucky... I did nothing wrong that is why I didn't go to jail per the police.....IF THE GUYS WAS NOT SPEEDING HE WOULD HAVE NEVER REACHED MY TRUCK

 

[Leftinbuilding]

You would lose your mortgage, the intersection was clear, there is even video showing I completely stopped and waited my turn

Now there is video too? Next you are going to tell us the entire US Supreme Court was standing on the corner and saw the whole thing. With "evidence" so OVERWHELMINGLY in your favor I find it hard to believe this firing stuck. Again, to repeat myself, and to agree with a host of others here, I say something is fishy in your story.

 

[dilligaf]

I ride motorcycles and that rider must have been out of his mind to be riding as described in the previous posts. It's to bad that something like this had to happen to one of our own. I, as a rider would like to offer my deepest regrets for the problems that you are going through and it makes mad as hell that you have to go through this. As far as the intersection situation, these types of intersections should not even exist. They (intersections) are begging for these types of accidents. As a PC driver I can see the scenario so clearly. Pull up to intersection....Stop...Look LRL.......Hesitate.......Question self is it clear.......start to go.......stop........is it really cllear.......start to go........stop.......is it really clear........(you get the picture) pretty soon you've wasted to much time because of hesitation and second guessing.....where do you drawn the line........To some degree some of the responsibility needs to be directed to the town which established this type of intersection. I wish you the best and truly hope you can some to sort of acceptible terms both personally and with your job.

 

[2Slow]

I've been here on this site for a few months now. I'd like to think that I have built up some level of credibility by now. I have not made a habit of posting wild stuff.

Given that I have (I would like to think) built up some credibilty, I now give my assurances to some things.

1) I know this guy personally. This guy is real, the story is real, the details as much as I know them are true. (I am not the steward, so I was not involved in any meetings or hearings in any way) He is not a troll.

2) I like this guy, and the other drivers in the center liked this guy. He was not a troublemaker or a -talker. Even though managment was all over him, he did not seem like an angry or vindictive person.

3) This guy is not a particularly articulate person. I'm not saying this to be mean, but to explain to you guys who are ready to rip him up why he might have posted stuff in the manner he did.


So....

Maybe he should have taken the offer for the combo job, but he didn't. He is here now asking for help, if any of you guys can help that would be the decent thing to do.
I feel like this situation could have happened to any of us. I expect managment to close ranks and say all the same things. How many of us have been charged with an accident for a hit while parked? But I'm saddened that a lot of guys on here that are "one of us" are ready to slam him too.
I've driven down Meridian street many thousands of times. I'm quite familiar with the intersection that the accident happened at. I can very easily picture the situation. Driver looks down the street and sees some cars coming. With their distance and speed he has plenty of time to make it across the street. He does not see the reckless motorcyclist going 2 to 3 times the speed of traffic because at the time he commits to going through the intersection he cannot see the motorcyclist who is behind other vehicles. The motocyclist who was riding a modern sportbike did not have the skills to avoid this accident.
By the way, I ride motorcycles and have for all my adult life. I am well aware that many of the guys out riding around on these crazy fast sportbikes have virtually no riding skill whatsoever. It saddens me, but long discussions about personal responsibility and rider training are really better materials for other forums.
I could have quite easily, with my modest skill level, avoided this accident were I the motorcyclist, even moving at the speed he was.

Knowing what I know about the accident, I really think it could have happened to any of us. This guy got a raw deal because he got un-lucky and managment did not like him because he did not make good numbers. If any of you can help him now, I think it would be the decent thing to do.

 

[BigBrownSanta]

What police report? That's just the law. The motorcycle rider had the ROW. A flashing red means you yield to ALL cross traffic.

If the driver didn't see the MC, then why would he yield the ROW? I seriously doubt the driver pulled in front of the MC on purpose.

Although all the facts weren't given in this thread, I'll bet this happened on a 4 lane road. The passing lane was clear so the driver proceeded to enter the intersection. The right lane probably had traffic, and the MC (probably tailgating) was hidden behind a car or truck. The driver pulled into his clear lane and the MC decided to pass at the same time. Since the MC was speeding, there wasn't time to react.

As you can see from my scenario, anything could've happened. The facts aren't displayed here for anyone to make that conclusion. The events have transpired and the driver is out of a job. There is no reason to give the driver the third degree and assign blame here. The driver asked how he could get back at UPS (not sure if that meant get even or get his job back) and at this point, the only options seem to be that he get a lawyer or accept the fact he lost his job.

 

[dannyboy]

2slow

All we are asking is for the guy to be truthful. If he represented himself at the hearings like he has done here, no wonder he lost his job.

As far as taking or not taking the combo job, there are some things he also left out. Like would it be a perm. assignment, or after several months be able to bid off it back into driving. To me, taking the driver off the road while this thing blows over is a smart move. But since he let his ego get in the way of smart decisions.......

All we have heard about the reports are his version of the story. Why not post the report? And if he does not know how, or does not want it public, why not send it to one of us to review.

And if you do know him, and he really does need help, why not help him get the documentation to us so we can assist? It would seem the right thing to do.

BTW, while stupid might not be the correct term to use on this guy, by his postings and decision made, that was the kindest term I could come up with. The guy really needs a real talking to about his selfish attitude. Once you have children, its not just about you, its about them.

d

 

[filthpig]

I'm not trying to pass judgment or make this person feel bad. My understanding of the law makes me stand by what I stated earlier: If you have a flashing RED and the cross-traffic has a flashing YELLOW they have the ROW. No hard feelings and I hope you get your job back.

 

[over9five]

Great post by 2Slow. In my opinion, as 2Slow IS a credible poster and knows the OP, I am inclined to believe all that the OP has posted is fact.

It always helps when someone has your back.

You need a lawyer, Laurietito. This late in the game, there is nothing any of us can do to help you. As Tie said:

"I wish you had been on this board while you were going through all this. It sounds like you needed someone to guide you through this process."

This could have gone a lot better.

 

[laurietito]

Good point. Maybe the driver in question should have turned right at the intersection driven a short distance and then turned left and resumed his travels so he could be called into the office the next morning and fired because he diverted from trace, was overallowed, was padding miles, was not working as instructed or any one of a number of excuses that management will pull out of their lower extremities.

Are you a psychic???? If I knew I was going to get into an accident I would have not went that way or called in sick... You never know... I could have turned right and got hit and died.....

 

[laurietito]

This was the entry I meant to quote. As I said, you don't have a leg to stand on and are lucky you didn't go to jail.

I was not the one speeding.... There was also a reason the mc had a suspended drivers license...