UPS can't compete because of high labor costs?

[705red]

If UPS was in trouble I guess I could consider a wage freeze or give back. It is obvious that we are still profiting and our CEO actually received a nice raise under these ecoomic times all this when the rest of management had made sacrafices. I believe that it was the NABER website that showed how our stock has faired under our CEO. When he took over it was around $70 a share and now mid $50s a share.

That would be the same as us delivering about 80% of our route daily and bringing the rest back. We would not have a job very long if we performed like that.

Everyone at UPS earns their money, 22.3s provide a very reliable source of pride in doing their jobs. They are the best preloaders and understand that they make our days. Feeder drivers have to deal with long hauls and really badweather, I would not want to pull a set in a snow storm! And package drivers are the best of the best, you never see anyone else moving like we do.

Every time we receive a raise more is expected, and if they would like concessions they should calculate the decrease in production accordingly!

 

[purplesky]

Hey everybody remember UPS always has cried POOR even back in the 80s when UPS almost had a monoply in the package Biz. When UPS made Billions they told us we were overpaid as they handed out stock bonuses to management like candy on Halloween. Im sorry but my back and knees and no personal life are worth $30 per hour. If the sales Dept. actually followed up on sales leads maybe UPS could make another $100 million or so. Do we still have a sales Dept.? Also remember folks alot of your fellow part-time workers that chose management 20 or 30 years ago are now millionares. That is fine with me. Hell if we made $15 an hour now UPS would say its too much. Its never enough for UPS! Its THE SEARCH FOR EXCELLENCE crap!

 

[klein]

On the preload, production can go down and they have to add even an extra hour, the cost saved greatly outweighs the added expense. I get that, and it makes good business sense to me.

What doesn't make sense, is if they get in $15/hour guys and production goes down, they have to add more drivers. A lot more drivers. Sure, they can also cut benefits and pension contributions and save some money there. BUT, they need to buy more trucks, more insurance, more uniforms, etc. etc. Cost savings and cost expense pretty much cancel each other out. But the big thing is service. Service goes way down. WAY down. And UPS suffers. That to me does not make good business sense. UPS has been around a long time. Despite what we think, I'm pretty sure there's a guy or two at the top who knows this....At least I hope there is.

I agree and disgree with you.
When you take vacation, your job still gets done.
Within 3 weeks, they will have it basically down (still taking longer, ofcourse).
But, they will get by, with just keeping them out there longer.

On the other hand, who will put up with that very long ? Long hrs, starting wage at $15.00, no bennies (for the first year).
Which will lead to a high turnover, and training will never end.

And you forgot another point : In most centers (here atleast), the newbies are involved in accidents, probably 10:1 ratio compared to the experienced.

But, healthcare sharing is probably on it's way one day.

 

[purplesky]

I agree and disgree with you.
When you take vacation, your job still gets done.
Within 3 weeks, they will have it basically down (still taking longer, ofcourse).
But, they will get by, with just keeping them out there longer.

On the other hand, who will put up with that very long ? Long hrs, starting wage at $15.00, no bennies (for the first year).
Which will lead to a high turnover, and training will never end.

And you forgot another point : In most centers (here atleast), the newbies are involved in accidents, probably 10:1 ratio compared to the experienced.

But, healthcare sharing is probably on it's way one day.

THE ONLY WAY YOU GET A $15 an hr UPS driver work force is using MEXICANS WHO GOT INTO THIS COUNTRY IN THE BACK OF A TRUNK! AND THAN AFTER A FEW YEARS THEY WOULD GO BACK TO LAWNCARE WHICH PAYS BETTER!

 

[bbsam]

THE ONLY WAY YOU GET A $15 an hr UPS driver work force is using MEXICANS WHO GOT INTO THIS COUNTRY IN THE BACK OF A TRUNK! AND THAN AFTER A FEW YEARS THEY WOULD GO BACK TO LAWNCARE WHICH PAYS BETTER!

And you bellieve UPS corporate wouldn't go that route?

 

[purplesky]

And you bellieve UPS corporate wouldn't go that route?

Ofcourse they would if they could. In America anythings possible these days. I better brush up on my Spanish! Although the terrible economy has slowed down the flow of illegal workers now so they would have to send some feeder drivers to fill up the trailers with workers. I guess those would be mileage runs! But you know what. FDX would get the same idea and the bidding wars for the Mexican workers would get so high that they would use workers from India and China who would be flown in daily in the cargo containers on UPS and FDX planes. They would setup work camps in Atlanta and Memphis. The workers from India would also do IT work for UPS and FDX and all IT related jobs at both companies would be eliminated.

 

[MR_Vengeance]

Well, if UPS was still earning over a billion in profit per quarter then everyone would still be happy.

I'm happy to make as much as I do. But I've always said I would do this job for less money. I believe we drivers are overpaid.

Next contract I would accept very meager/modest raises and just put everything else UPS offers us into our pensiosn/health care.

did you used to work for Fedex?

 

[MR_Vengeance]

I lived in a very expensive area median home price 350-400k, rentals from 1100+ a month.
I was a Driver only two years in so not even topped out $17.70, and I was more than comfortable.(on my 650-800 a week)

yeah if you are single man living in your mom's basement.

 

[purplesky]

yeah if you are single man living in your mom's basement.

yes he is like will ferrels character in the movie wedding crashers. Ma! Get the meat loaf!!!!!!!!!!

 

[John19841]

I lived in a very expensive area median home price 350-400k, rentals from 1100+ a month.
I was a Driver only two years in so not even topped out $17.70, and I was more than comfortable.(on my 650-800 a week)

Just wanted to break this down a little bit. Do a little basic budgeting, ya know?

$700 a week is roughly $2800 a month. That's take home. Now you said rentals go from $1100/month. I don't know if that includes any utilities or not, but for the sake of argument, We're going to say they do not, if they did the rental prices wouldn't correspond with the home prices.

$2800 - $1100 = $1700 month left. Let's take a [-]decent[/-] cheap $200 car payment out of that and $75 for insurance. That leaves us with $1425. Now we're going to take out $100/week for groceries. That's $400 a month. That leaves us with $1,025.

Let's take out ONLY $300/month for utilities. That's $725 left. Take out $100 for gas for the month and we're at $625. $100 for such "luxuries" as Cable/TV/Internet package (You know, for Browncafe.) That's $525.

I'm going to stop there. That's roughly $130/week left over. Keep in mind most people have little bills to go with this such as credit cards, cell phones, etc. etc. I did this with cheap, basic bills based upon ONE person, Living alone. I realize you can get by on this. Just barely, but can you get by. Now, the real point here, which is what I was trying to make originally, is would you really want to work your a** off day in and day out to live like this? Just getting by with no money to put towards anything, nevermind retirement, kids, a family, a house...anything.

Let's face it. UPS pays a living wage. The only reason it seems high is because EVERYTHING (Inflation) has gone up, while wages (labor) has remained stagnant. House prices/rents have increased tenfold since the 80's. I'm still waiting for the average wage to double. There is definatley something wrong in the way in which the people who actually work in this country are paid. DO NOT TAKE IT OUT ON UPS BECAUSE THEIR PAY SCALE HAS INFLATED ALONG WITH EVERYTHING ELSE.

 

[John19841]

most people support their families on much less...
no argument here.

Depends on where you are. Keep in mind though, that in a lot of areas, just as many people support their families with more than that.

Most people also get to support their families by actually seeing them...

Where I am, if it were not for excessive overtime, a driver's income would be under the average. That means more than half the people get by on more. Especially when you think of ALL the people working at the Walmart's, McDonalds and every labor job around that pays subpar wages. They all bring the average incomes down.

 

[rod]

Even in the little town I live in the local Parks Dept (I guess I should say all City laborer jobs pay $28.00 to $33.00 an hour- plus full benefits. Not bad for riding on a lawn mower all day. UPS don't have the high paying wage market cornered like they used to.

 

[bbsam]

Even in the little town I live in the local Parks Dept (I guess I should say all City laborer jobs pay $28.00 to $33.00 an hour- plus full benefits. Not bad for riding on a lawn mower all day. UPS don't have the high paying wage market cornered like they used to.

Any idea if those laborers are getting laid off/fired? You know local governments have to cut back too.

 

[Just Numbers]

What would be your decision point...Half of something or all of nothing?

 

[John19841]

What would be your decision point...Half of something or all of nothing?

If it came to it, I'd have to say option C: A different job.

No way would would I stick around for a company that treats it employees like it does, and work the hours that we do. Not when the pay is sub par and I could make the same in some warehouse.

 

[rushfan]

I love the trolls who always have the UPS doomsday posts.

 

[BSUUPS]

I love the trolls who always have the UPS doomsday posts.

I love rushfan - I love rush

 

[hurricanegunner]

People are worth whatever someone is willing to pay them. Just because someone else might think it is too little or too much, does not make it so. They are not the ones paying the person.
As far as competition with FedEx is concerned, UPS needs to stop whining about sales leads and do some serious advertising. FedEx does advertise much more than UPS and it is showing.

 

[TechGrrl]

If it came to it, I'd have to say option C: A different job.

No way would would I stick around for a company that treats it employees like it does, and work the hours that we do. Not when the pay is sub par and I could make the same in some warehouse.

With unemployment at 9.8%, and over 10% in many locales, I'm sure that many people would be ecstatic to take your place.....

 

[whiskey]

the revenue per piece is way down...shippers are using a higher percentage of defered service levels...And FedEx is exploiting its cost advantage like never before giving out rates that are ridiculous - We either lose or cut our margins drastically. I woulnt say it is the end of the world for UPS....But it is not - nor will it be what it used to be. And in upcoming contracts the labor costs must be addressed...

In the current cost structure - UPS cannot maintain and recruit solid mgt as they have cut salaries and benifits...There will be a revolving door when the economy turns around. The reason UPS has been able to compete at the cost disadvantage that we have had is our people... BETTER WORKFORCE... Better hourlies, and yes Better management -- Which leads to a BETTER MANAGED COMPANY... It is evident in our technology, systems and processes. But harder working employees will be surpassed by inferior counterparts that have better systems, technology and processes (better management)... An economic system will only thrive in the long term when the customers, workers, managers (executors, strategists) and shareholders (owners) share in a balanced system of sacrifice/ risk leading to reward.

Right now I would contend that the workers bucket of availbale resouces is slightly out of skew inhibiting the system's use of shareholder reward (capital), Customer usage (revenue and margin) and management innovation to thrive long term. Particularly in a highly competitive envoronment.

WOW - that felt like I was back in my college days.

In other words, you are saying, that, if our amniotic fluid decreases to the point where it threatens the buoyancy of our umbilical chord, we'll have to be emptied.