UPSers are DOOMED

[teamsterdan]

brett636, I believe the imt. part of the split raise, is the part that states.....

Section 4 Re-allocations of Contributions/Wages

The Teamsters UPS National Negotiating Committee may re-allocate designated increases in
Health & Welfare and/or pension contributions (HWPC) and/or general wage increases (GWI)
provided in this Agreement in accordance with the following rules:

1. Thirty-five cents ($0.35) of any GWI may be re-allocated as an increased contribution to a
Teamster Pension or Health & Welfare Fund. The re-allocation shall apply to all employees
in a Supplement, Rider or Addendum, as applicable, provided all of the affected employees
(full or part-time, if applicable) are covered by the same Pension or Health & Welfare
Fund.

2. Twenty-five cents ($0.25) of a HWPC may be re-allocated as a GWI. The re-allocation shall
apply to all employees in a Supplement, Rider or Addendum, as applicable, provided all of
the affected employees (full or part-time, if applicable) are covered by the same Pension or
Health & Welfare Fund.

3. Once a re-allocation becomes effective, it may not be changed.

I don't believe it would exist if they didn't plan on doing it.....

 

[Buster1]

UPSers in the Central States just sold their souls to the devil! In the short run, they will be o.k., but in the long run, UPS will control their pension plan totally, run roughshod over the "union trustees" and end up destroying the pension plan! Don't forget about the thousands of other Central States Pension Plan participants (your Teamster brothers and sisters) who are now even more at risk from your pullout of Central States! It's each member for himself from here on out! By the next contract Big Brown will successfully pull out of ALL the multi-employer Teamster pension plans and will RULE your retirment security with an iron fist! Too bad Hoffa, Hall, etc...and the members don't understand what SOLIDARITY means!

 

[Damok]

brett636, I believe the imt. part of the split raise, is the part that states.....

Section 4 Re-allocations of Contributions/Wages

The Teamsters UPS National Negotiating Committee may re-allocate designated increases in
Health & Welfare and/or pension contributions (HWPC) and/or general wage increases (GWI)
provided in this Agreement in accordance with the following rules:

1. Thirty-five cents ($0.35) of any GWI may be re-allocated as an increased contribution to a
Teamster Pension or Health & Welfare Fund. The re-allocation shall apply to all employees
in a Supplement, Rider or Addendum, as applicable, provided all of the affected employees
(full or part-time, if applicable) are covered by the same Pension or Health & Welfare
Fund.

2. Twenty-five cents ($0.25) of a HWPC may be re-allocated as a GWI. The re-allocation shall
apply to all employees in a Supplement, Rider or Addendum, as applicable, provided all of
the affected employees (full or part-time, if applicable) are covered by the same Pension or
Health & Welfare Fund.

3. Once a re-allocation becomes effective, it may not be changed.

I don't believe it would exist if they didn't plan on doing it.....

I asked specifically about the re-allocations at our last meeting. There is only one section where a re-allocation can be made without a vote by us and that is because it applies only to Cartage. The other "mentions" of re-allocations in the contract can only go through after a membership vote and can only be brought up if there is a financial need.

This is what I was told from one of the people on the negotiating committee who then repeated it to the gathered membership. We'll see.

 

[tieguy]

Impressive observation Tie. If I hadn't seen it come from your mouth I'd swear you read this and quoted from someone else. I stand corrected that you are that smart afterall and maybe one day as smart as me!



I'm still goofing off on vacation, what you doing?

Great minds think a like? Burning up my last leta days before I go 24/7 for peak. Gonna try a new thing someday when I retire and find that christmas spirit I keep hearing about.

 

[KTB]

Again, why does that matter? Its still 20,000 opportunities for part-time workers. Do they have to be new jobs?

You brought that article up. I'm just pointing out it's lack of relevance.

 

[rod]

Great minds think a like? Burning up my last leta days before I go 24/7 for peak. Gonna try a new thing someday when I retire and find that christmas spirit I keep hearing about.

It is really neat after you retire and Christmas becomes fun again. The 1st couple of years I went all out with the decorating and shopping and gift giving. Now I just go all out - to Arizona for the rest of the winter.

 

[tieguy]

You brought that article up. I'm just pointing out it's lack of relevance.

Probably one of the things ups and the teamsters could do a better job of. While it does not seem like it in some places we create new jobs all the time and 20,000 new full time jobs could be a very realistic goal. Teamsters news release shows 240,000 upers in the teamsters union? If half are part timers then between part timers moving to combo jobs, part timers moving to full time jobs, new jobs being created, people retiring etc. I would think most part timers with us presently would have the opportunity to fill something during this contract if they stick it out.

 

[Johney]

Can anyone tell me what happens in 5 years if the Teamsters have gone though the 6.1 billion?

 

[Overpaid Union Thug]

Again, why does that matter? Its still 20,000 opportunities for part-time workers. Do they have to be new jobs?

I'm still curious about what happened to all the new jobs that were posted back in August and were taken down? Will the contract affect the outcome? Or are those jobs gone with the wind? As far as the "new" 20,000 jobs are concerned....saying that there will be that many new part-timers upgraded to full-time based on retirement projections and termination sounds good but in reality they aren't new jobs. Yes, part-timers will usually fill the ranks but I'm sure some of those jobs (particularly combo jobs) won't be filled and will just dissappear into the wind much like the ones that were up for bid a while back. With so many centers switching to PAS/EDD I'm thinking that many jobs will be lost in the long run. The cold reality of it is that in the span of 5 years there probably won't be that many new full-timers. I'm still not sure UPS has met their obligations on creating NEW full-time jobs per the current and last contract.

 

[d-rek357]

I still fail to see what is so bad about this contract. The main focus of this contract is the pension and healthcare, both of which were addressed. Sure some of the provisions aren't great like the split raises, but its a not a big deal. This contract is more long-term focused and not so shortterm. If it works out our pensions will be healthier and our healthcare will be sustained. Some people are complaining about how it doesn't allow for more combo jobs, and while I can understand the disdain for this you have to look at the big picture. In my hub we are practically maxxed out on combo jobs. For awhile they were creating combo positions using jobs we already required, but latly they have been creating jobs simply for the sake of meeting the quota. A lot of the people taking the jobs they signed up for aren't even doing those positions because they don't have enough work to give them. The contract does provide for 20k new fulltime jobs which is still a big plus in my book.

You have to remember that these negotiations are a give and take situation, and with the pensions in the shape that they are both sides had to do a little of each. This contract won't be the end of the world for UPSers, its just a change of procedure. As an employee I find this contract acceptable as niether our customers nor fellow employees need the uncertainty of a possible work stoppage next summer.

sorry to disagree but not only does the raises suck but the split raises suck worse, do the math, for a part timer you a may average 20 hours a week 20X.375=7.50X26weeks=195.00. 6months later .75X20hours =15.00. 15X26weeks=390.00. 195.00first 6 months+390.00second 6 months=585.00 per year raise. Last year we got 1.2 for 52 weeks witch =1248.00. Maybe im wrong but thats going in reverse. So to you it may not be a big deal, but there are some of us that think a 663.00 a year cut is a huge deal. At least with one raise a year I could get 780.00 a year. And your hub sounds lucky with the combos, we didnt get in on the combo boom that you expained and im sure we were not the only hub. Your right negotiations are give and take but why take the first and worst offer. Ive been part time for 9 years with no end in sight, how do I support a family like this? Are everyone with25+ years going to retire under this contract opening a package or feeder route for the thousands of part timers?

 

[browned out]

typical of the misinformation provided when you do not go to your local contract reviews. the first language quote quite clearly states that twenty thousand new where does it say new full time jobs? full time jobs will be created through the growth of the business.

the second quote is clear language designed to protect specfic full time jobs from elimination. You even take language beneficial to your side and try to twist it negatively.

When this contract is up in 5 years the ratio of part timers to full timers will increase. Can someone please put up the current full time part time ratio or actual numbers so we can compare in 5 years.

 

[tieguy]

When this contract is up in 5 years the ratio of part timers to full timers will increase. Can someone please put up the current full time part time ratio or actual numbers so we can compare in 5 years.

Most of your part time jobs are in hub sorts. To significantly increase the ratio of part time jobs you would have to significantly create more hub sorts.

If anything I would expect that we may actually reduce the ratio ( not number) of part time jobs over the years. I would expect our company would look to reduce the number of sort handles on a package to reduce handling costs and to reduce damages and missorts. As we do so we would then close down some hub sorts usually day sorts and some night sorts thus eliminating as many as 2 or 300 hundred part time jobs and reducing the overall number of part time jobs.

Let me give you one example. The east to west lane enhancements have created all kinds of new sleeper team / feeder jobs. Direct movements from one coast to the other. less handles and less service failures. One possible casualty of these lane enhancements could be taking down the Cach day sort. If that were to happen you would probably eliminate 1000 part time jobs. So in this scenario more feeder jobs, less part time jobs less operating expense and improved service and overall cost.

So while the fear has always been that UPS may eliminate full time jobs for part time jobs this scenario which could be played out all over the country would actually increase the ratio of friend/t jobs to p/t jobs.

 

[browned out]

Most of your part time jobs are in hub sorts. To significantly increase the ratio of part time jobs you would have to significantly create more hub sorts.

If anything I would expect that we may actually reduce the ratio ( not number) of part time jobs over the years. I would expect our company would look to reduce the number of sort handles on a package to reduce handling costs and to reduce damages and missorts. As we do so we would then close down some hub sorts usually day sorts and some night sorts thus eliminating as many as 2 or 300 hundred part time jobs and reducing the overall number of part time jobs.

Let me give you one example. The east to west lane enhancements have created all kinds of new sleeper team / feeder jobs. Direct movements from one coast to the other. less handles and less service failures. One possible casualty of these lane enhancements could be taking down the Cach day sort. If that were to happen you would probably eliminate 1000 part time jobs. So in this scenario more feeder jobs, less part time jobs less operating expense and improved service and overall cost.

So while the fear has always been that UPS may eliminate full time jobs for part time jobs this scenario which could be played out all over the country would actually increase the ratio of friend/t jobs to p/t jobs.

That makes sense and I hope that you are right. Coast to coast feeders. We must be pulling alot of the rails. I have traveled to the west coast by car many times. I always see a train with atleast 30 probably closer to 40 drop 28 footer UPS trailers on those trains.

 

[GuyinBrown]

Ive been part time for 9 years with no end in sight, how do I support a family like this?

It never ceases to amaze me that people expect to support a family on a part time job.

 

[d-rek357]

It never ceases to amaze me that people expect to support a family on a part time job.

I dont think any of us expected to have to raise a family on a part time job, but 9 years later and two jobs at a time along the way, thats where alot of people are. How long were u part time?

 

[d-rek357]

Most of your part time jobs are in hub sorts. To significantly increase the ratio of part time jobs you would have to significantly create more hub sorts.

If anything I would expect that we may actually reduce the ratio ( not number) of part time jobs over the years. I would expect our company would look to reduce the number of sort handles on a package to reduce handling costs and to reduce damages and missorts. As we do so we would then close down some hub sorts usually day sorts and some night sorts thus eliminating as many as 2 or 300 hundred part time jobs and reducing the overall number of part time jobs.

Let me give you one example. The east to west lane enhancements have created all kinds of new sleeper team / feeder jobs. Direct movements from one coast to the other. less handles and less service failures. One possible casualty of these lane enhancements could be taking down the Cach day sort. If that were to happen you would probably eliminate 1000 part time jobs. So in this scenario more feeder jobs, less part time jobs less operating expense and improved service and overall cost.

So while the fear has always been that UPS may eliminate full time jobs for part time jobs this scenario which could be played out all over the country would actually increase the ratio of friend/t jobs to p/t jobs.

8.50 an hour? Where is UPS going to find any p/t's to make friend/t RETENTION, RETENTION, RETENTION!!! We cant keep anybody now, what about 2011,2012,2013 How's 8.50 going to sound then?

 

[GuyinBrown]

I dont think any of us expected to have to raise a family on a part time job, but 9 years later and two jobs at a time along the way, thats where alot of people are. How long were u part time?

8 years and I worked a full time job the entire time as well. At no point did I ever expect my part time job to be anything more than additional income and a stepping stone to a full time position.

 

[tieguy]

8.50 an hour? Where is UPS going to find any p/t's to make friend/t RETENTION, RETENTION, RETENTION!!! We cant keep anybody now, what about 2011,2012,2013 How's 8.50 going to sound then?

As I've previously stated I would have liked to see it go up more to. But at the same time you're using worst case scenario. There is a progression that will help retention. Some will realistically be making 10:50 after 90 days and 11 after a year.

 

[PT Stewie]

Please excuse me if I come off as rude or mean but I want the truth to be heard. And please, don’t try to be a smartass and correct my grammar unless you like wasting your precious time and energy.


First, let me say I've been a pt-timer for almost five years. I was planning to become a driver but the future doesn't look so bright for employees. It is truly sad to see a contract like this pass. Not only because the “Teamsters” sold us out but even worse- most people voted yes. Why would anyone with half a brain accept this first offer that was written almost a year early? Its either the vote was fixed or we have some really dumb co-workers. Here are some of the reasons why I think it will soon pass:

1. It would be a lot easier if the “Teamsters” were on our side. The people who voted for Hoffa get what they deserve.
2. The majority of UPSers (from what I understand 75% are part timers) are illiterate or ignorant. The statistics prove this- only 20% voted? I don’t understand...most people I talk to in the hub want a raise but they don’t care to vote. And most people that did vote couldn’t figure out that it was a bad contract. I wouldn’t vote yes even if I were in the central states.

3. “Teamsters” using our dues for their yes campaign…what a slap in the face.

4. They rushed to pass it so we didn't have enough time to organize.


It can only get worse once this contract finalizes so I will work towards plan B. I think eventually it will get bad enough to strike. I understand from a shareholders P.O.V. but the only way to get what we want is to get rid of the Teamsters then strike. Good luck to everyone.

 

[PT Stewie]

In reply to your all is lost comments I believe the contract could have been kinder to the part timers i.e. only adding $5. per month pension credit for future years of service and separating us in the "National UPS Health Care Plan for Part Time Employees".
I had the honor of meeting Jimmy Hoffa and hall during their campaign for office and spoke to Ken for a few minutes privatley about the needs of the part timers ( 250+) on my shift. I hope he listened and did as well as he could.
I have been a teamster and a upser for 10 years and and have not had to pay for health care for myself and my dependants when my day job would have cost me $700.00 per month. Thank you teamsters ! Now you and I have health care and a pension for another 5 years, with a part time job!!!!Please know that management and non-union employees have to contribute to their health care.
Maybe you should rethink your comment about getting rid of the Teamsters.