whats the best way to deal with this new "push" on production? on production.

[toonertoo]

Thanks Sober, well said.

Yes very well said. We all like hard work, thats why we like the job.

 

[trplnkl]

For a job that is so simple on the surface, there are soooo many aspects of it that makes it both a great job and a hellhole. After 20 years (nearly) in the saddle, I am still trying to find a balance.

Sober, IMHO those were two of the best posts I have ever read on this board.

 

[pretzel_man]

I always try to give everyone the benefit of the doubt, and I always try to remember that, in the end, we are all just human beings who come to UPS every day in order to earn a living.

Unfortunately, when I have a discussion with a supervisor regarding production or other job expectations, I am not really talking to him....I am talking through him to his boss or his boss's boss. And the discussion can never be truly honest or productive because the person I am talking to is not a decision-maker. He has no real authority. He cant fix problems or change anything. Not to mention that there is an entire aspect to the debate....the fairness of the time allowance itself...that cannot be discussed, disputed or even acknowledged. The allowance is chiseled in stone and it will never be corrected or changed, even if all parties involved agree that it is not fair.

For all practical purposes, the on-car supervisor or center manager is a guy whose only job it is to make the square peg of the time allowance fit into the round hole of reality. His job is made even more difficult by the fact that his only tool is a hammer. He might be a decent human being and I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt, but after a while the business end of that hammer starts to hurt. I do my best to remember that, in the end, he is little more than a puppet and he might be holding the hammer but it is someone higher up than him who is actually swinging it.

I agree with you that there is a problem. I likely disagree with you on the cause.

Time allowances are the symptom, not the cause. I think the cause is center management who don't know how to go about improving performance.

There is plenty of room for improvement in the on-road operation. You've mentioned many yourself. Exit routine, car loading lineups, dispatch, trace, etc.

If a center manager or on road supervisor doesn't understand the purpose of allowances, how they work, or how to change the operation to improve productivity, they use the only tool they have. The hammer.

If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. The hammer is not bad, the nail is not bad. The answer is not to get rid of the hammer, but to add more tools to the management toolkit.

P-Man

 

[trplnkl]

I agree with you that there is a problem. I likely disagree with you on the cause.

Time allowances are the symptom, not the cause. I think the cause is center management who don't know how to go about improving performance.

There is plenty of room for improvement in the on-road operation. You've mentioned many yourself. Exit routine, car loading lineups, dispatch, trace, etc.

If a center manager or on road supervisor doesn't understand the purpose of allowances, how they work, or how to change the operation to improve productivity, they use the only tool they have. The hammer.

If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. The hammer is not bad, the nail is not bad. The answer is not to get rid of the hammer, but to add more tools to the management toolkit.

P-Man

One of the biggest problems is that when production needs improving it seems to always be laid on the shoulders of the drivers. It's almost always assumed that it is the driver that is falling down on the job or stealing time.
The hammer is much of the time used on the wrong nail.
The real question is how to get any member of management to address where the problem really is and not always assume it's the driver? It's been proven (here at least) that the drivers input is unwanted and will go unheard.

 

[705red]

.

Time allowances are the symptom, not the cause. I think the cause is center management who don't know how to go about improving performance.


P-Man

I will say that this is your worst post that i have read. And i have enjoyed every one of your posts up to this one.

Just because a driver does not live up to the time study does not mean he/she needs to improve.

Why should the driver that follows all the methods as close to perfect have to go through the harassment because some pencil pusher with a broken calculator mis added some numbers.

What should happen here, is the knucklehead from IE should be able to demonstrate his numbers and run the route for one day within his own expectations!

 

[pretzel_man]

I will say that this is your worst post that i have read. And i have enjoyed every one of your posts up to this one.

Just because a driver does not live up to the time study does not mean he/she needs to improve.

Why should the driver that follows all the methods as close to perfect have to go through the harassment because some pencil pusher with a broken calculator mis added some numbers.

What should happen here, is the knucklehead from IE should be able to demonstrate his numbers and run the route for one day within his own expectations!

Red,

I never said the driver needed to improve. I also never said that the work measurement was perfect.

However, work measurement points to problem areas. The problem could be the driver, it could be the job setup, or it could be the measurement itself.

Here are examples:

You leave the building and then spend 20 minutes resorting your load. You will be over allowed for that time. Its not the drivers fault.

Your load is not loaded well, and you spend time at each stop looking for packages. You will be overallowed in select. Not the drivers fault.

You load is not closed in the morning and you spend closing the load. You are overallowed in the AM. Not the drivers fault.

The above are large causes of overallowed today.

Work measurement was designed to point out where a problem exists. It was NOT intended to say who caused the problem. UPS has given this good science a bad name by trying to make the driver responsible for overallowed.

One more thing. Work measurement is designed to be 95% accurate, 95% of the time. This means that on a 9 hour planned day, the work measurement could be off by 27 minutes plus or minus. It also means that 1 day per month, its not accurate at all.

My point is that the center team needs to be able discern where the problem exists. Is it the driver, job setup, or work measurement itself.

P-Man

 

[1989]

I will say that this is your worst post that i have read. And i have enjoyed every one of your posts up to this one.

Just because a driver does not live up to the time study does not mean he/she needs to improve.

Why should the driver that follows all the methods as close to perfect have to go through the harassment because some pencil pusher with a broken calculator mis added some numbers.

What should happen here, is the knucklehead from IE should be able to demonstrate his numbers and run the route for one day within his own expectations!

I have never seen anyone disciplined on WOR numbers alone. When 3 other drivers do the route in an hour less time, there is a problem.

 

[tieguy]

I'm of the opinion that if he did not take the time and energy, he would get more done yes, then management would decide that if he has no problem getting that done he can get more done, and load him up with more work until he gets hurt or does something wrong then they could fire him and get someone else to do the job for cheapier.

I would think it would more physically taxing to put all that effort into slowing yourself down when you could just stop bsing and get it done.

 

[some1else]

Just make sure you're on meal when you're using your personal camera phone to take pictures....
oops did you think the time games you play were supposed to be onesided?

lol i would love that.

tieguy "this driver stole 10 seconds taking a picture of a diad message"
someonewithabrain "why?"
...
i would love to play that game! thats the whole reason im taking the pictures

with respect to this thread ive realized 50% is the answer. you dont have to be a superhero; but as long as you not in the lower quartile you will be left alone. its not that much more effort to avoid being "least best" and you get left alone... good trade off for me at least.

 

[some1else]

We had a driver do that and was told the paper is UPS property and he couldnt have it

i heard the same about timecards...

Article 12

If an employee
has an issue with his/her hours worked for a particular day, the Employer will provide the employee, upon written request, with a print out of his/her hours worked.​

...

 

[Braveheart]

Why work hard when all you have todo is work smart?

T cross = DIRT date int reason time 4 corners of a t

Using handcart is smart as it will save your back and knees! Also some guys go all He-man to impress boss by caring too many boxes at once or a giant one.

Some guys are lazy and avoid the misload claiming it is out of way. I am saying do it if it can be done period. Why skip it the days they ride you and then be forced to do it other days that will lower your numbers.

"Running off a bunch of ground stops during airs does not happen everyday and most days you can not so why act as if you can the days they ride with you. You may not have had these 3 day rides but I have. They pull off slow stuff, hand sort trucks, pick a lite easy day to start it and so forth. They also avoid your heavy air days and heavy pick up days like Thur-Fri. They like to start on a Monday when airs are light and preload is all wrapped early.

As for the "do your job" answers yeah, true. Just reminding people to NOT cut corners.

Over 70's= DUH

What is against the contract? Taking lunch when you want? We choose it not them. We need to take it before 8th hour is all. Which means no skipping it until 6 pm just to make all business stops since they cut two routes. Show them that it is your lunch not dinner!

They like to alter the days even by adding easy gravy work that keeps you out till 8 pm but JACKS up your SPORH. Then they take away the easy gravy work so you can make 9.5 and complain that your are not keeping up with SPORH.

Those gravy stops are like 20-40 resi stops that are done in an hour or less. Now you do not get them so your production will drop.

I will not destroy my back like my buddy did. He busted it out every day. Now he is permanently disabled and out of work. Settlement was a joke. He gave it all for UPS and they turned their back on him!

 

[Braveheart]

my cell phone camera takes really good pics of the diad screen...

Copy machines on route work great!!!

 

[Braveheart]

Another thing about the 3 day ride that happens is when they do it during Valentine's week or Mother's day week or even in peak! Stops are one right after the other. Of course your production will be up. That will not continue 52 weeks per year.

Also it is like asking Sammy Sosa who hit 3 home runs in 3 games and go 6 for 12 to now hit 162 home runs per year and bat .500 while your at it.

3 days on a route is clearly not an average of a 260 day work year!

 

[tieguy]

Another thing about the 3 day ride that happens is when they do it during Valentine's week or Mother's day week or even in peak! Stops are one right after the other. Of course your production will be up. That will not continue 52 weeks per year.

Also it is like asking Sammy Sosa who hit 3 home runs in 3 games and go 6 for 12 to now hit 162 home runs per year and bat .500 while your at it.

3 days on a route is clearly not an average of a 260 day work year!

That point would seem to beg the question "how many days would you like us to ride with you if three is not enough?"

 

[speeddemon]

Tie, dont be a twit. You know what he is saying.

 

[trplnkl]

That point would seem to beg the question "how many days would you like us to ride with you if three is not enough?"

Actually, I think that point begs a different question. Not how many rides it takes to establish a given number but why establish a given number on ever changing criteria.

 

[browniehound]

How about you just be productive? Lord knows they are paying you to be. You can't make management the bad guy for wanting to get their money's worth.

I agree to a point and it applies to many drivers. What about the ones that have never had a word said to them about production in 10-20 years? They were good enough for UPS for 2 decades but now a manager is going to try and show me how to do MY job?

I'm supposed to be happy that he thinks he can do a better job than I? I would be very upset and offended if my supervisor rode with me for 3 days. I don't care who you are, you cannot do a better job on MY route than I.

And what's with the 3-day rides for the 59 year-old driver with 30 years experience? It happened in my center last week. I found this a little extreme even by UPS' standards.

Someone wrote "follow EDD even if its not correct so you have to break for businesses at the end of the day". First, as drivers we shouldn't play games like that. Its that kind of thing that warrants a ride along for you.

At the same time EDD should be 100% correct. Its not here on many routes and there is no excuse after 6 years. Instead of riding the 59 year-old senior citizen, I think the time would be better spent working on perfecting EDD. The ride may produce a gain in SPOHR of .1 for that route, but perfecting EDD may produce a gain of .1 for ALL of the routes. No?

 

[browniehound]

Actually, I think that point begs a different question. Not how many rides it takes to establish a given number but why establish a given number on ever changing criteria.

Excellent point Trplnkl!

 

[NHDRVR]

That point would seem to beg the question "how many days would you like us to ride with you if three is not enough?"

If it's about production, it should only take about half a day to see that particular problem.
If the ride is for 'fixing' a run that is unrealistic on paper....You could give me a 2 week ride to see the problems such as area trace (which is an EDD issue), splits that should be on another route that is closer (a dispatch issue), an unrealistic balance of scheduled pickups vs. stop count (this happens on every route after a bit of time), too wide of an area for air chasing (has a huge impact on your planned day), a 15 min time allowance for travel out to my route when it takes 55 minutes to get to my first stop (happened on my Salem run).
Fixing these types of problems is more difficult when done in the office. I would rather have someone come out on road with me, a space and vis., OJS, I could care less what we call it, just to see the problems that some of the runs have.
The problem is mgmt. ignores these issues if the driver is working unsafe and is meeting the numbers. The hypocracy is laughable.

 

[InTheRed]

I agree to a point and it applies to many drivers. What about the ones that have never had a word said to them about production in 10-20 years? They were good enough for UPS for 2 decades but now a manager is going to try and show me how to do MY job?

Doesn't it take longer to sheet packages by hand, on paper, than it does to scan them?

I'm supposed to be happy that he thinks he can do a better job than I? I would be very upset and offended if my supervisor rode with me for 3 days. I don't care who you are, you cannot do a better job on MY route than I.

If that's true, then that's awesome. So no cover driver comes in way better than you? That's a good indicator of a job well done.

And what's with the 3-day rides for the 59 year-old driver with 30 years experience? It happened in my center last week. I found this a little extreme even by UPS' standards.

Was he running high over-allowed? I noticed the more 'senior' guys tend to have a lot of customer contact time. Not many, but a few. I've covered for them on vacations and seem to beat them by an hour. I work by the methods, shut the door, turn the truck off, etc etc all that good stuff. Some people need the ride along. Not saying this particular gentleman did as I do not know the details.

Someone wrote "follow EDD even if its not correct so you have to break for businesses at the end of the day". First, as drivers we shouldn't play games like that. Its that kind of thing that warrants a ride along for you.

I totally agree. I know of some drivers that follow EDD in the resi area and will pass a stop 1, 2, 3 times when they could just knock it off. We all know that every day is different, so you need to approach it that way. You really can't follow EDD 100%, because what happens when we have that customer meet us on the road? Tell them to go away because I haven't made it to their house yet? Also the stops you have everyday dictate the way you wind your way through the neighborhood, unless you have a townhouse/condo-ish area where one street runs into the next...

At the same time EDD should be 100% correct. Its not here on many routes and there is no excuse after 6 years. Instead of riding the 59 year-old senior citizen, I think the time would be better spent working on perfecting EDD. The ride may produce a gain in SPOHR of .1 for that route, but perfecting EDD may produce a gain of .1 for ALL of the routes. No?

I think it should be 90-95% correct. When it is way off is what offends me. I have handed the dispatch supervisor the way to run particular neighborhoods and how to load it up in EDD. He did something because it was perfect for two weeks, but then it went back to the crap it was before. This is a neighborhood with 50 streets, and looks like a fingerprint on a map --- Very curvy streets and you can cut through it very efficiently, with practice. When it's not right, you lose 5-10 mins through sorting it out. Peak is worse, as the neighborhood gets 100 stops a day. During peak, that neighborhood winds up on all four shelves. *sigh*