2 tier pay system, easy 100 or not?

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

Terry Bolea, as you can tell from this thread, the concept of a two-tiered wage system is not one that I simply made up nor is it one that I am pushing to have implemented. I am a realist and I know that in order for us to continue to remain competitive with FedEx Ground we have to do something to control our labor costs. $32/hr plus benefits for a job that requires only a driver's license and HS diploma. Have you tried getting a sales lead lately? Our price point makes it nearly impossible to secure new volume.

Would I willingly accept a $10/hr pay cut? Of course not; however, any future FT hires would be governed by the wage structure in place at the time of their hire and, as such, would not be guaranteed to make what current employees would be making at that time. Would this put a target on the backs of those within 5 years or so of retirement? Absolutely. Would it be fair that employees performing the same work not be paid the same? Of course not but for those who do not wish to work under those conditions there would be at least 100 who would be willing to do so.

FedEx Ground is for real. They are growing daily. Volume is being shifted from the less profitable Express over to Ground. Ground drivers make about 1/4-1/3 of what we make (total compensation) yet perform the same work. Shippers have shifted their focus from service over to the bottom line.

I sincerely hope that my pessimism is unfounded and that we all continue to enjoy our industry leading wages, benefits and pensions for years to come. I hope that our current part-timers will have the same waiting for them when it is their turn to drive.

What you call "throwing under the bus" I call economic reality.

 

[kingOFchester]

Terry Bolea, as you can tell from this thread, the concept of a two-tiered wage system is not one that I simply made up nor is it one that I am pushing to have implemented. I am a realist and I know that in order for us to continue to remain competitive with FedEx Ground we have to do something to control our labor costs. $32/hr plus benefits for a job that requires only a driver's license and HS diploma. Have you tried getting a sales lead lately? Our price point makes it nearly impossible to secure new volume.

Would I willingly accept a $10/hr pay cut? Of course not; however, any future FT hires would be governed by the wage structure in place at the time of their hire and, as such, would not be guaranteed to make what current employees would be making at that time. Would this put a target on the backs of those within 5 years or so of retirement? Absolutely. Would it be fair that employees performing the same work not be paid the same? Of course not but for those who do not wish to work under those conditions there would be at least 100 who would be willing to do so.

FedEx Ground is for real. They are growing daily. Volume is being shifted from the less profitable Express over to Ground. Ground drivers make about 1/4-1/3 of what we make (total compensation) yet perform the same work. Shippers have shifted their focus from service over to the bottom line.

I sincerely hope that my pessimism is unfounded and that we all continue to enjoy our industry leading wages, benefits and pensions for years to come. I hope that our current part-timers will have the same waiting for them when it is their turn to drive.

What you call "throwing under the bus" I call economic reality.

Another problem with the two tier system. Those of us under 5 years full time will eventually be screwed down the road. As more of the top tier retire, the more the lower tier will grow. To the point where we (under 5 year guys) will end up not getting raises and most likely end up at the lower tier top rate.

I would think that a good meeting place would be to keep the starting wage at what it is now. Have a much longer progression. 10 years even. Allow all part timers now choose whether to keep the bennies, or loose the bennies for a higher pay. Do not offer bennies to new part timers. Start them at a higher rate. Give them progression from $10 to $16 and hour or something. UPS would save a bundle on health.

Just brain storming here, but I am not sold on 2 tier. longer progression and other changes makes more sense for someone in my position. I guess no matter what some group will end up needing a jug of Vasoline.

 

['Lord Brown's bidding']

Most building trades (carpenter, electrician, iron worker, etc.), have a 3-5 year progression to top pay. They work hard those years, but ultimately it is worth it. It'd take you 5-7 years, maybe longer, going the college route for the most part. A longer progression is not cruel.

We would not be selling out future workers if a two-tiered system was in place. Among other things, as employees hit that new top rate they'd get raises, much as 22.3s do now (and when you have 22.3s working beside older employees under the close-to-driver scale, isn't that a two-tiered system?) Selling out future employees would be UPS becoming even weaker compared to FedEx ground, where even those most valued by their contractors probably don't make $20/hr. And to be sure, for many FedEx ground is the future. A $25/HR wage is not FedEx Ground. People are more and more becoming envious (jealous but with the added desire of not just wanting what you have but depriving YOU of it as well) of union jobs, and so we will not have sympathy on our sides. A strike would be disasterous for UPS, and thus for us. That is the bigger picture right now, not the hardship of being under a contract where at $25/hr you'd still be the best paid in the industry.

 

[brownmonster]

Many local factories in my area have two tier in their union contracts.

 

[bigblu 2 you]

Say what you will---it matters little to me.

$30/hr plus benefits for a job which requires only a driver's license and HS diploma is nothing to sneeze at yet many of you seem to take it for granted. Your sense of entitlement amuses me.

We have all worked crappy jobs. I worked for minimum wage in a Christmas bulb factory during the summer while going to college. There were people who had worked there for 30-40 years who worked 12 hours a day attaching the metal hangers to the painted bulbs for barely more than minimum wage. Their fingers were heavily taped from all of the cuts they had sustained over the years. This was the text book definition of a dead end job.

We had a driver bang in Friday which left us short staffed. The PDS called in a 22.3 to run the area, pulled the NDA (which he gave to an air driver) and a 10-20 stop residential split (which he gave to me) which brought the area just under 8 hours. I sent an ODS to the OMS asking her to tell the driver I would be at a dropbox stop at 1730 if he wanted to meet me, dump his pickups and finish the area and she told me that 22.3 was OK. He punched out before me. The area was run efficiently, the customers were taken care of and the pickups were completed. Turns out he could have run the residential split and, if he had started on time, ran his own NDA.

My point? The work was done by an employee making $23/hr. He followed EDD and ran the area in trace. The customers were taken care of and the company saved at least $60 on the area.

Lower starting wage ($15/hr), longer progession (5 years) and a lower top out ($25/hr) with the monetary adjusted annually.

well that settles it for me.i guess ill vote for a 2 tier pay scale and take a 10% pay cut,thanks for the resume'and the lesson on 22.3's doing efficient labor for less. i would hate to be in a foxhole in a foreign country with you....just sayin.stay classy usny

 

[UPSGUY72]

Just say NO. I will... As long as UPS is making billions of dollars I'm not willing to give anything back to the Company. I'm not willing to give up my raises, free Health insurance, and will not entertain a 2 tier system.

If Ups needs to trim the fat maybe they need to look at the number of people they have in management that babysit each other.

I will entertain a 4 day work week and getting rid of the 9.5 language and make it 9 hr.

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

well that settles it for me.i guess ill vote for a 2 tier pay scale and take a 10% pay cut,thanks for the resume'and the lesson on 22.3's doing efficient labor for less. i would hate to be in a foxhole in a foreign country with you....just sayin.stay classy usny

Time for an oldie but a goodie----yawn.

 

[What'dyabringmetoday???]

I hate to be obvious, but "technically" a "two-tier" wage already exists. At least up this way. Part-timers are on the road on a daily basis. They do not get paid as much as a full-timer, but, they work full time hours consistently. I would consider this a two-tier wage system. But, what do I know?

 

[What'dyabringmetoday???]

Terry Bolea, as you can tell from this thread, the concept of a two-tiered wage system is not one that I simply made up nor is it one that I am pushing to have implemented. I am a realist and I know that in order for us to continue to remain competitive with FedEx Ground we have to do something to control our labor costs. $32/hr plus benefits for a job that requires only a driver's license and HS diploma. Have you tried getting a sales lead lately? Our price point makes it nearly impossible to secure new volume.

Would I willingly accept a $10/hr pay cut? Of course not; however, any future FT hires would be governed by the wage structure in place at the time of their hire and, as such, would not be guaranteed to make what current employees would be making at that time. Would this put a target on the backs of those within 5 years or so of retirement? Absolutely. Would it be fair that employees performing the same work not be paid the same? Of course not but for those who do not wish to work under those conditions there would be at least 100 who would be willing to do so.

FedEx Ground is for real. They are growing daily. Volume is being shifted from the less profitable Express over to Ground. Ground drivers make about 1/4-1/3 of what we make (total compensation) yet perform the same work. Shippers have shifted their focus from service over to the bottom line.

I sincerely hope that my pessimism is unfounded and that we all continue to enjoy our industry leading wages, benefits and pensions for years to come. I hope that our current part-timers will have the same waiting for them when it is their turn to drive.

What you call "throwing under the bus" I call economic reality.

And, it helps when all of you guys show up to the union meetings to help. You know, with the strength of the union and what not. I know, I know, you are worried only about the pension the you have "earned". I hope it is there when you retire. I really do.

 

[HULKAMANIA]

LOL

That is so ignorant, it is just damn right funny.

That will keep me chuckling through this next week.

You are in management and you want to talk to someone about ignorance???? NUFF SAID-Chuckle all you want I think after that being said I will have the last laugh.

 

[Re-Raise]

They increase the rates they charge shippers each year.

They increase the dividend paid to shareholders.

Why can't they continue to give a fair percentage increase for the drivers?

I hope our negotiators don't go to the bargaining table planning to make as many concessions as the posters on this thread. My bank account thanks the people who came before us who stood their ground.

 

[HULKAMANIA]

Just say NO. I will... As long as UPS is making billions of dollars I'm not willing to give anything back to the Company. I'm not willing to give up my raises, free Health insurance, and will not entertain a 2 tier system.

If Ups needs to trim the fat maybe they need to look at the number of people they have in management that babysit each other.

I will entertain a 4 day work week and getting rid of the 9.5 language and make it 9 hr.

UPSGUY apparently you and I are both 2 ignorant schmucks that seem to think alike.

 

[Re-Raise]

UPSGUY apparently you and I are both 2 ignorant schmucks that seem to think alike.

Throw me in there too.

Eliminate the office clown who has the clerk send out the stupid DIAD safety and wellness crap and divide his wages among the people who actually do the work.

 

['Lord Brown's bidding']

Actually Re-raise, in our building they are eliminating some OMS positions, using one OMS to do the job of two or three. For us drivers, the most notable change is when sending mags via the diad we must use option 3 "center and dispatch" because the server for 1 "center" may no longer be monitored, and our msg may not be read. They also changed the phone numbers.

To those who continually say "As long as UPS makes billions, we gotta get ours...", do you worry about FedEx ground at all?

 

[Re-Raise]

Actually Re-raise, in our building they are eliminating some OMS positions, using one OMS to do the job of two or three. For us drivers, the most notable change is when sending mags via the diad we must use option 3 "center and dispatch" because the server for 1 "center" may no longer be monitored, and our msg may not be read. They also changed the phone numbers.

To those who continually say "As long as UPS makes billions, we gotta get ours...", do you worry about FedEx ground at all?

I am more efficient than a FedEx ground driver. UPS will not lower the rates they charge for shipping if we are paid less, they will increase the shareholder dividends.

If the shareholders were willing to accept the same dividend FedEx pays they could lower rates. But they " gotta get ours"

 

[brownIEman]

UPSGUY apparently you and I are both 2 ignorant schmucks that seem to think alike.

No, you are just 2 guys who have not been paying attention. UPS has been trimming management compensation and management jobs for nearly 10 years. Try to keep up with current events.

 

[soberups]

Who you calling old??

I wonder how many "yes" votes a $5K signing bonus would "buy"? I know of one that would be bought--mine.

How would you feel if those who came before you had made the same choice and left you stuck on the bottom tier?

Its called "screwing the unborn" and as far as I am concerned it is morally repugnant.

 

[soberups]

They'd have to bribe me with more than a 5k signing bonus to get me to go along with that crap. You wave 10 Grand in front of my face, well that's a horse of a different color

No, the horse is still the same color. You are still screwing over those who come after you, the only difference is in how much it costs the company to buy you off.

 

[soberups]

No, you are just 2 guys who have not been paying attention. UPS has been trimming management compensation and management jobs for nearly 10 years. Try to keep up with current events.

Here is a current event; I recently represented a driver on a rural route who clipped a mirror on a branch.

He called it in, and our "center team" immediately dispatched an on car sup on an 80 mile, 4 hour roundtrip up to the hills of the Oregon Coast range so that he could take about 35 pictures of a tree. The driver was also forced to break trace and double back to the scene of the crime so that his package car could appear....by flashlight of course...in those pictures.

The next morning, the driver and I spent about half an hour in the office going over the details of the crime, reviewing the photos, regurgitating the requisite acronyms and commentaries, and otherwise wasting about an hour total of OT discussing the "accident" in all its gory detail.

A warning letter was of course issued...requiring further representation...and on top of that our driver also got to spend 30 minutes per morning for the next week being "mentored" by a "safety committee" member in the fine art of reciting additional commentaries and acronyms.

All told, by my calculations we pissed away something like $700 or $800 worth of OT, mileage, management wages etc. over a cracked mirror that cost the shop about TEN BUCKS to fix.

Looks to me like there is a helluva lot more management jobs that need to be trimmed.

 

[brownIEman]

Yea, forget accidents. At least minor ones, no reason to make a big deal over it. One little mirror, one little tree and a drivers lapse in attention or judgement. If next time its a mail box, well, those are cheap, no big. After that, a scraped fender, who cares, and the guy probably has insurance anyway. And hey, if the follow up is a kid, well, he probably should not have been playing near the road anyway. Yea, lets save some money that can be put toward your pension and paycheck by removing the costs associated with a culture that take every traffic accident no matter how small seriously. Lets do that.