22.3 Pay rate question

Discussion in 'UPS Union Issues' started by suffolk_804, Oct 23, 2008.

  1. suffolk_804

    suffolk_804 Suffolk_804

    In the 804 supplemental Agreement it says :

    Section 6 - Combination Jobs
    When an employee during a working day is assigned work of two or more classifications, the applicable wage rate will be applied to the time spent on each classification, except that an employee who works more than one hour in a higher rated classification as part of his/her daily work shall receive the higher rate for the entire day.

    The company will not arbitrarily assing bargaining unit employees to combination jobs


    we ask our shop steward who direct us to one of the trustees of local 804 he told us that it does not apply to us and we are reading it wrong

    me and about 7 others in my hub it would affect we are 22.3 inside/outside with two pay rates is a 22.3 inside/outside NOT a combination job? What other ways can i fight this.. we think the union just does not want to fight this...and just fight other battles..

    How are other 22.3 paid do they have the same language for combination jobs that don't apply

    i am looking for suggestions/ideas or am i really reading it wrong it would be a lot of back pay for the company to pay out:happy2:

    the agreement is online at local 804 website

  2. Baba gounj

    Baba gounj pensioner

    I'm 22.3 and I have two pay rates. Years ago I was paid my inside rate ( higher ) for all hours worked. I changed jobs and they dropped my outside rate. Exactly they tried to re-classify me and insist that I had to go thru progression again.
    (1) Am a year one 22.3 , which progression was waived. And no one has to repeat progression.
    (2) I grieved it . The outcome was a win/lost thing. Inside is my part time rate and outside is what ever the current top pay for air driver.
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2008
  3. IDoLessWorkThanMost

    IDoLessWorkThanMost New Member

    Remember you are a part-time employee for each shift.

    Both the inside classification and outside classification are two entirely different animals.

    The higher wage is for "hub" work, delivering grounds, etc. There are jobs that pay above the top inside 22.3 rate, such as hub/hub, full-time preload, ft driver, feeder, etc etc.

    If you work in a classification for over an hour IN THOSE HIGHER RATED WAGE CATAGORIES, you should be eligable for the higher rate for all of your hours that day.
  4. gandydancer

    gandydancer New Member

    No, he's not. He's a ft employee who works two shifts, in each of which he performs a task that would ordinarily be a part time job. If Baba Gounj is indeed getting a part time rate he must have been red lined. I doubt if progression was waived -- if he was deemed a should-have-been-'98 in 2000 he was given credit for two years progression as a make-whole. I'm not exactly sure where it says that Article 40 work is paid at Article 40 rates rather than 22.3 rates when performed by a 22.3, but it must be in there somewhere because that's the case everywhere, so far as I've seen. Anyway, I suspect the key is that 22.3 jobs that include inside tasks and Article 40 work are not deemed to be "combination jobs" as a matter of the intent and understanding of the parties. And I think it's in our rider that the Union is the only party with standing to pursue a grievance.
  5. IDoLessWorkThanMost

    IDoLessWorkThanMost New Member

    The point I'll try to make easier to understand, is that the only way the thread author can be paid a "higher wage for the day" by grievance is to work in a higher wage class. If he/she is working inside 4 hours and outside 4 hours, those are two seperate jobs in the eyes of UPS! Two part-time jobs covered under different Articles. Therefore you can't say that because they're working in a higher classification for 4 hours they should be paid in the higher for all 8!!

    Is that what they are questioning and asking?

    Inside/Outside 22.3 combo has part-time rate for inside hours, and full-time air driver rate outside. That is why Baba Gounj and anyone else who has 1982 or lower book makes almost full-time driver rate inside.
  6. gandydancer

    gandydancer New Member

    Um, no. 22.3 has 22.3 rate for inside hours, or a red-lined rate if that is higher, whatever the source of the red-lined rate, which might indeed be pre-82 part time hire. But saying 22.3 inside gets the "part-time rate" is wrong. I'm a 22.3 and what I'm paid inside (which is both halves in my case) has nothing to do with part time pay rates.
  7. tritese

    tritese tritese

    this is correct here. our 22.3 (inside job, meaning you do not leave the property) make a top rate (22.97) after two years of progression (i think progression changed with this latest contract) for our classification. now if you are a 22.3 inside/air driver then you make two different pay rates. top pay (once progression is done) for combination employee when in hub and top pay air driver rate (this rate is less than combo top rate). i think the company sticks it to those guys because a 22.3 should be a 22.3 no matter what job is being performed. and you should only have to go through progression ONE TIME. we do have a few folks that are "red circled"; i don't know the exact seniority dates but pre 82 sounds right.
  8. IDoLessWorkThanMost

    IDoLessWorkThanMost New Member

    You know what I meant, a pay rate adjusted to company time in. I am at roughly 16-17/hr with 7 years, so that'd be my inside rate in an inside/outside 22.3. A "what would be" part-time rate.
  9. IDoLessWorkThanMost

    IDoLessWorkThanMost New Member

    Read what was said again. They're saying that the 22.3 inside/outside doesn't take a paycut! lol

    If you have never completed air progresssion (including inside-inside, full-time driver, feeder ETC), you have to complete it to make top rate as a combo inside/outside!

    I am a top rate inside-inside 22.3 and was told that I'd take a paycut because I had to completely the Article 40 progression on an inside/outside bid. Anyone new under Article 40 must do the seperate progression. This is from several union reps.

    This is something that must be addressed in the next contract. Is that bologna or what?
  10. Baba gounj

    Baba gounj pensioner

    Since it required a lawsuit to start the 22.3 job classification , the court ruled that year 1 combo jobs did not have to do progression , thus we are exempt from ever doing progression, we have to be paid retroactive , all year 1's have the same seniority date { your part time seniority is used when there is a conflict }, and some pension credits were upgraded .
    Those year1's who got the most backpay & extra pension credits were the part timers who had exactly worked the least. In my case I got the lowest amount & the least pension credit because I had been working 6 day weeks for years; am air driver , twilight , and sat air driver.
  11. gandydancer

    gandydancer New Member

    You have the text of the court ruling anywhere? I thought the 2500 highest pt seniority 22.3's got two years back pay and two years progression, the next 2500 got one and one.
  12. gandydancer

    gandydancer New Member

    Top rate 22.3 is $22.62 + .35 8/08 general = $22.97 (plus I get another $.35, but that's local). You're saying that, in your area, you're told that if you change to an inside/Air 22.3 you not only drop to beginner air rate on the Article 40 side, but your inside rate goes down to $16-$17/hr???

    Ok, lessee: National Master, Article 40, Section 1(L)" References in this Article to an air driver, part-time or full-time, include employees who, on a scheduled basis, perform ... (2) air driving work in combination with other bargaining unit work." So, a 22.3 who has an AIR half is a full-timer and an air driver, and it's the full-timer air driver tables that apply to 22.3s.

    Article 40, Section 6. Wages. Paragraph b. "Full-time air drivers will be paid as follows:
    Start $13.50
    Seniority $14.50
    Seniority Date plus 12 months $15.00
    Seniority Date plus 18 months $15.50
    Seniority Date plus 24 months Top rate
    1. Effective August 1, 2008, the prior $22.62 twenty-four (24) month (top) rate will change on August 1st and February 1st of each year of the Agreement to reflect the agreed upon general wage increases. as follows...
    2. All full-time air drivers in progression on August 1, 2002 the effective date of this Agreement will be slotted into the full-time progression in paragraph b. above. Seniority full-time employees entering a full-time air driver job will be slotted based on their Company seniority."

    Well, that should be dispositive. As a 22.3 you are a seniority full time employee and should be slotted into the wage progression accordingly. The "several union reps" who told you otherwise don't seem to know their contract.
  13. IDoLessWorkThanMost

    IDoLessWorkThanMost New Member

    The union are sell-outs for sure, but that's what is said. What is said that the begining of Article 40 has language that says it overrides any other Article, meaning Article 41 is void and null if you go into air driving without experience in that class.

    Artilcle 40 is completely seperate from the others, therefore you have to do another air progression.

    there should be no arguement about inside/outside being literally a part-time job on the inside, though!
  14. IDoLessWorkThanMost

    IDoLessWorkThanMost New Member

    Also , the proof in the pudding (well, the jumbled crappy language that needs to be addressed)

    2. All full-time air drivers in progression on August 1, 2002 the effective date of this Agreement will
    be slotted into the full-time progression in paragraph b. above. Seniority full-time employees entering a
    full-time air driver job will be slotted based on their Company seniority.
    c. All new hire full-time or part-time air drivers will be placed in the applicable progression in
    paragraphs a. or b. above.

    d. All current full-time or part-time air drivers who are out of progression shall receive the general wage
    increases provided for in accordance with the split dates provided in Article 41 on each contract
    anniversary date, or the Top Rate provided in paragraphs a. or b. above, whichever is greater.
    e. Employees in existing or newly created less-than-eight hour combination jobs shall be paid the parttime
    air rate in accordance with paragraph a. above for air driver work and their normal part-time wages
    for the hours worked in other classifications in accordance with Article 22.
    f. Employees who are in existing full-time combination jobs or who hereafter enter a full-time
    combination job shall be paid the appropriate full-time air rate for air driver work and appropriate inside
    part-time rate for the hours worked in other classifications. If an employee has no established inside
    rate, that employee will be paid the appropriate part-time rate in accordance with his Company seniority.

    First bolded part- where it clearly says that "All new-hire air drivers will be slotted into progression". That means that ANYONE - including regular drivers, 22.3, everyone must do the progression.

    Second bolded part- says employees will be paid the full-time air rate for air driver work and PART-TIME INSIDE RATE FOR INSIDE HOURS WORKED.

    So it appears to me the union is right! You do understand about the part-time pay rate now hopefully.
  15. gandydancer

    gandydancer New Member

    Nope. Look again. Don't have time now to look again at the inside language, so I'll get back to you on that later. But "slotted based on their Company seniority..." cannot mean they "must do the progression" ignoring their prior seniority. And this is IN Article 40, so the priority of Article 40 isn't a problem.
  16. Baba gounj

    Baba gounj pensioner

    Not correct.
    As I stated the retro checks were based on what hours one worked prior to going in 22.3. Someone who put in the min hrs got big bucks & anyone who worked a lot of hours got a smaller amount .
    Have you seen any recent bid sheets about 22.3 jobs ? They usually have a phrase that there is no retro pay involved. This is because only the first years 22.3 were subject to the lawsuit ruling. Research TDU.org site for more info since they are the ones who brought the lawsuit in the first place.( Hoffa wanted nothing to do with creating 22.3's since that was started by Cary , he did jump on the bandwagon only when the ruling was issued ).
  17. IDoLessWorkThanMost

    IDoLessWorkThanMost New Member

    There is no inside language!
    existing full-time AIR DRIVERS that are driving IN PROGRESSION when the contract was ratified. They are already air drivers and have completed part of the progression. If not all of it

    The NON air drivers are covered under (c)
  18. gandydancer

    gandydancer New Member

    In other words, you don't have the text of the arbitration (not lawsuit, btw) ruling. Under the '98-'02 contract UPS was obliged to create 2500 full time jobs in each year of the contract. It claimed it didn't have to because it didn't have the volume to create those jobs, but lost that claim in arbitration. UPS was forced to create 5000 ft jobs effective Aug 1, 2000 and was forced to make the individuals who bid into those jobs whole for the 40-hour weeks they hadn't worked, hence the retro pay was for the differential between what they actually worked in each week and 40 hours, resulting in the phenomenon you have twice described (and I have not contradicted) that the more you worked the less retro pay you got. But they were only obliged to created 2500 jobs in '98 and my understanding is only 2500 of the jobs created 8/1/2000 got 8/1/98 seniority and two years retro pay, while the less senior 2500 who got 22.3 jobs on 8/1/2000 got 8/1/99 seniority and one year's retro pay. You claim that's wrong, but can't point to any evidence, so maybe you're right that all 5000 goit '98 seniority and two year's retro pay...but it doesn't seem likely.
  19. gandydancer

    gandydancer New Member

    Nope. "(c)", or more properly, Article 40, Section 6 - Wages, Paragraph c reads, in its entirety, "c. All new hire full-time or part-time air drivers will be placed in the applicable progression in paragraphs a. or b. above." That is, it is about NEW-HIRE zero-company-seniority air drivers, not "NON air drivers". It is Article 40, Section 6 - Wages, Paragraph b(not c!), sub-paragraph 2 that ends, "Seniority full-time employees"(i.e., the non-new-hire currently "NON air drivers", e.g., seniority 22.3s) "entering a full-time air driver job will be slotted BASED ON THEIR COMPANY SENIORITY." You ignored my pointing out that "slotted based on their company seniority" cannot mean "go to the beginning of the progression, ignoring their company seniority", so I'll point at it again.

    And of course there IS "inside language". Most particularly Article 40, Section 6 - Wages, Paragraph f, which reads, in its entirety, "f. Employees who are in existing full-time combination jobs" (e.g., seniority 22.3s) "or who hereafter enter a full-time combination job shall be paid the appropriate full-time air rate" (i.e., at the point in the progression to which their company seniority entitles them) "for air driver work and appropriate inside part-time rate for the hours worked in other classifications. If an employee has no established inside rate, that employee will be paid the appropriate part-time rate in accordance with his Company seniority." This seems, unfortunately, incoherent. The clear implication of the last sentence is that if an employee DOES have an "established inside rate" (which an inside/inside 22.3 does) it should mean something different than that he should be paid at the same rate as soimeone who doesn't. But this contradicts the immediately preceeding sentence. Were I an arbitrator I might rule that the necessity of giving meaning to the last sentence means that the appearance of "part-time" in the preceeding sentence must be unintended. But I am not.
  20. shock3rd

    shock3rd New Member

    I'm 22.3, Preload/Air 4:30 am-12:30 pm no lunch straight 8 hrs & like it that way. preload rate $20.32 & air rate $22.97 2 different classes 2 different pays........