Up In Smoke

Well-Known Member
In our building the youngsters get to pick what route they want in seniority order now that there’s mapnav.
It's nice when the company recognizes seniority at all levels and assigns work in order, but they are under no contractual obligation to do so. We've had grievances lost when a higher seniority 22.4 wanted more work than their junior. Company is only obligated to your 8hr guarantee. They argued overtime is not extra work, and they won.
 

eats packages

Deranged lunatic
Here if management does not want you bumping a cold route they have that right but you can go straight to a wrttten request to be "trained" on the route which, if not fulfilled and grieved, gets a fun helper day with both drivers out.
 

burrheadd

KING Of GIFS
Want opinion. Not sure if this is the same everywhere or if it’s worth talking about with the Union. 22.4s on Saturday at my building are not permitted to use seniority to get on preferred routes or areas. Supervisor picks when and where you are. Asking for something else is not guaranteed. There are less senior 22.4s and TCD that get layed off during the week and get to sit on their Saturday routes for months. How is it like in your center.
Seniority rules grieve anything else your supe is fos
 
Want opinion. Not sure if this is the same everywhere or if it’s worth talking about with the Union. 22.4s on Saturday at my building are not permitted to use seniority to get on preferred routes or areas. Supervisor picks when and where you are. Asking for something else is not guaranteed. There are less senior 22.4s and TCD that get layed off during the week and get to sit on their Saturday routes for months. How is it like in your center.
Nope! And don’t let them tell you guys that RPCDs can’t use their seniority on Saturdays either. They tried that here and it was shut down immediately.
 

Up In Smoke

Well-Known Member
No. But in my area 22.4s are allowed to use seniority to bump other 22.4s when we are covering or running the Saturday routes.
I would recommend filing a grievance and settle it with a verbal commitment from management to recognize seniority when assigning work areas. Gl
 

specter208

Well-Known Member
So today I asked again with the Saturday sup and basically said he has to get an ok from the head on-road. I have not mentioned the language from 4.3 yet. I’m not sure the steward even knows about this. I’ve never filed a grievance before too.
 
If they want to say it's not (even though it is.)

Show them this.
View attachment 388106
View attachment 388105
The Problem is this. 22.4 classification is what's called WAD dispatch. Work as directed. 22.4 have no bidding rights at all. the reason none of these Rider subsections ever go past local level. is because the bidding procedures are clearly outlined in the riders and master. utility bids weekly in the Southwest and package RPCD runs are permanent until vacated by the bid driver for another route, retirement, or choice of going into utility. the reason why these are not ever taken to panel nor at a national decision is that if its lost it will change it for everyone. 542 has what's called a sidebar agreement or extra-contractual agreement with your manager and BA. it is not the contractual language in the bidding procedure. if they are allowing it keep it quiet because district labor will stop it. And if your labor department finds out they will likely order that building to stop the practice. Bumping for the most part was eradicated in a lot of buildings because of our bidding procedure for utility being weekly. there are no daily bids in the contract. most labor departments consider prime consideration the language to be for days off, extra work, Overtime, 8-hour request, and fringe benefits.

I am sure some buildings in other locals have this extra-contractual agreement but unfortunately, this type of grievance will likely end in a flaming piece of paper I've filed them before. we did have options to bump day to day in the utility pool back in the early 90s through the early 2000s but it's not enforceable now due to the WAD language in the bidding language. 22.4s get the :censored2: on this, though they do have rights over RPCD on Saturdays for work guarantee and over time as its their scheduled day. again if you have that agreement at your center i suggest you keep it and don't labor know you have it.
 

542thruNthru

Well-Known Member
A few questions...
The Problem is this. 22.4 classification is what's called WAD dispatch. Work as directed. 22.4 have no bidding rights at question...
Im not saying they have rights to bid routes. I'm also wondering where WAD dispatching is in the contract.
the reason none of these Rider subsections ever go past local level. is because the bidding procedures are clearly outlined in the riders and master.
This is true but we are talking seniority rights. Saturday routes can not be bid per the language because they are only in 1 day a week and also change weekly.
utility bids weekly
Yes utility language allows them to bid on weekly vacated routes. Though we are not talking about bidding. We're talking about exercising article 4.3 WRT.
in the Southwest and package RPCD runs are permanent until vacated by the bid driver for another route, retirement, or choice of going into utility.
Yes that's absolutely true but again that's talking about bidding language. We're talking about enforcing your right to use your seniority in every day operation.

The reason why these are not ever taken to panel nor at a national decision is that if its lost it will change it for everyone. 542 has what's called a sidebar agreement or extra-contractual agreement with your manager and BA. it is not the contractual language in the bidding procedure.
Youre absolutely right its not in the bidding procedure because we are not bidding routes. We are using our seniority per article 4.3 to perform the routes available by seniority in the 22.4 classification.
if they are allowing it keep it quiet because district labor will stop it. And if your labor department finds out they will likely order that building to stop the practice.
She is already aware. I promise you that.
Bumping for the most part was eradicated in a lot of buildings because of our bidding procedure for utility being weekly. there are no daily bids in the contract. most labor departments consider prime consideration the language to be for days off, extra work, Overtime, 8-hour request, and fringe benefits.
I'm sure some building have decide not to allow it. Has your local taken that grievance to panel?
we did have options to bump day to day in the utility pool back in the early 90s through the early 2000s
so you had it...
but it's not enforceable now due to the WAD language in the bidding language.
Where is this language?
22.4s get the :censored2: on this, though they do have rights over RPCD on Saturdays for work guarantee and over time as its their scheduled day. again if you have that agreement at your center i suggest you keep it and don't labor know you have it.
I agree with this. They have the right to work before a RPCD because it's their scheduled day.

Before you respond I'm not attacking you I'm just debating. I know you're under the same contacts as me.
 
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542thruNthru

Well-Known Member
The Problem is this. 22.4 classification is what's called WAD dispatch. Work as directed. 22.4 have no bidding rights at all. the reason none of these Rider subsections ever go past local level. is because the bidding procedures are clearly outlined in the riders and master. utility bids weekly in the Southwest and package RPCD runs are permanent until vacated by the bid driver for another route, retirement, or choice of going into utility. the reason why these are not ever taken to panel nor at a national decision is that if its lost it will change it for everyone. 542 has what's called a sidebar agreement or extra-contractual agreement with your manager and BA. it is not the contractual language in the bidding procedure. if they are allowing it keep it quiet because district labor will stop it. And if your labor department finds out they will likely order that building to stop the practice. Bumping for the most part was eradicated in a lot of buildings because of our bidding procedure for utility being weekly. there are no daily bids in the contract. most labor departments consider prime consideration the language to be for days off, extra work, Overtime, 8-hour request, and fringe benefits.

I am sure some buildings in other locals have this extra-contractual agreement but unfortunately, this type of grievance will likely end in a flaming piece of paper I've filed them before. we did have options to bump day to day in the utility pool back in the early 90s through the early 2000s but it's not enforceable now due to the WAD language in the bidding language. 22.4s get the :censored2: on this, though they do have rights over RPCD on Saturdays for work guarantee and over time as its their scheduled day. again if you have that agreement at your center i suggest you keep it and don't labor know you have it.
So your buildings do not allow bumping at all. So when split cars are added the company can put any Utility driver on those routes as long as they haven't bid a weekly route?

I've heard of the company claiming "area knowledge" to get out of allowing it but never heard of WAD dispatching.
 
So your buildings do not allow bumping at all. So when split cars are added the company can put any Utility driver on those routes as long as they haven't bid a weekly route?

I've heard of the company claiming "area knowledge" to get out of allowing it but never heard of WAD dispatching.
Understood i am not arguing at all. and i agree with you. the language for 22.4s needs a complete rewrite or the job class classified as utility RPCD. which is coming according to our new general president. And i also agree with you we should be able to enforce seniority just based on section 6. not even 4.3. But that's not what labor supports. they have always fought us on the operations language of the company retaining the right to make adjustments on day-to-day operational changes. unfortunately, the contract in the master and riders contradicts itself in several areas. To answer your question yes when a utility driver does not win a bid for a weekly they are WAD for the week. If your center allows bumping then count your lucky stars because its not contractual. If a permanent RPCD loses his route for a day due to route cuts they have the option of displacing a lower seniority driver in the loop, working as WAD, or exercising his seniority to take a day off if the staffing is over. at one point we did have bidding for these issues in utility and route cuts but I pissed off the old center manager by grieving all his supervisors working and he rescinded the agreement and forced contractual language at the local level hearing. as far as adding a car if its in 3 days a week i grieved them to become permanent package runs and they have permanent drivers. so we dont have 30 different split cars for a 110 RPCDs and only 80 permanent routes
 
A few questions...

Im not saying they have rights to bid routes. I'm also wondering where WAD dispatching is in the contract.

This is true but we are talking seniority rights. Saturday routes can not be bid per the language because they are only in 1 day a week and also change weekly.

Yes utility language allows them to bid on weekly vacated routes. Though we are not talking about bidding. We're talking about exercising article 4.3 WRT.

Yes that's absolutely true but again that's talking about bidding language. We're talking about enforcing your right to use your seniority in every day operation.


Youre absolutely right its not in the bidding procedure because we are not bidding routes. We are using our seniority per article 4.3 to perform the routes available by seniority in the 22.4 classification.

She is already aware. I promise you that.

I'm sure some building have decide not to allow it. Has your local taken that grievance to panel?

so you had it...

Where is this language?

I agree with this. They have the right to work before a RPCD because it's their scheduled day.

Before you respond I'm not attacking you I'm just debating. I know you're under the same contacts as me.
I am on doing this from my phone not at home and dont have the contract on me. if i recall its in the blue in the package rider under full time package bidding. when i get home ill go through it and link the supplements for you.
 
Here is the language reguarding bidding procedures. Bumping is not contractual. If you center is allowing it thats great. Anytime a utility does not win a bid they are considered a work a as directed employee that means you do what your on road assigns you to do.if you have spilt cars that are in more then two days a week they should have been bid as permanent routes .its clearly outlined in the language in the package rider language.. for full timers that have routes broken out in the week . The options are clearly out lined ours usually just do juice work air bulk and splits and go home early if they so choose. If the do not want to displace juniors in their loop. Be careful with the 4.3 language and pushing it to far if the district labor manager gets wind you'll have a fight on your hands. Seniority guarantees you work and actuall paper bids . Weekly and permanent . there are no daily bid sheets in the contractual language Unfortunately. If your on roads are allowing you bumping they are not contractually obligated. Becareful management does lurk in brown cage thats why I dont discuss buisness here nor have an account.
 

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charm299

Well-Known Member
Here is the language reguarding bidding procedures. Bumping is not contractual. If you center is allowing it thats great. Anytime a utility does not win a bid they are considered a work a as directed employee that means you do what your on road assigns you to do.if you have spilt cars that are in more then two days a week they should have been bid as permanent routes .its clearly outlined in the language in the package rider language.. for full timers that have routes broken out in the week . The options are clearly out lined ours usually just do juice work air bulk and splits and go home early if they so choose. If the do not want to displace juniors in their loop. Be careful with the 4.3 language and pushing it to far if the district labor manager gets wind you'll have a fight on your hands. Seniority guarantees you work and actuall paper bids . Weekly and permanent . there are no daily bid sheets in the contractual language Unfortunately. If your on roads are allowing you bumping they are not contractually obligated. Becareful management does lurk in brown cage thats why I dont discuss buisness here nor have an account.
In the southern supplement, the contract says seniority will be considered for utilty drivers who don’t hold a bid
 
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