after 18 years of service i was terminated today

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

in my experience, pulling up the time cards would be faster. Telematics leaves much to be desired in responsiveness.

OK, but you would still have to print the delivery records and compare the two.


Our OMS takes care of situations like this for us. She holds the DIADs for those who do not want to take their lunches in the building and will punch them out after 45 minutes. Yeah, I know it's not right, but who wants to sit for 45 minutes.

 

[brownIEman]

OK, but you would still have to print the delivery records and compare the two.


Our OMS takes care of situations like this for us. She holds the DIADs for those who do not want to take their lunches in the building and will punch them out after 45 minutes. Yeah, I know it's not right, but who wants to sit for 45 minutes.

don't let bubblehead find out you are doing this. He will blame me for it!

 

[BlackCat]

OK, but you would still have to print the delivery records and compare the two.


Our OMS takes care of situations like this for us. She holds the DIADs for those who do not want to take their lunches in the building and will punch them out after 45 minutes. Yeah, I know it's not right, but who wants to sit for 45 minutes.

That is sweet

 

[UpstateNYUPSer(Ret)]

don't let bubblehead find out you are doing this. He will blame me for it!

Don't you worry about Bubbles.

 

[Omega man]

That is sweet

The OMS is setting herself up and the drivers for discharge. Why is it so hard for people to just follow our contracts?

 

[Bubblehead]

OK, but you would still have to print the delivery records and compare the two.


Our OMS takes care of situations like this for us. She holds the DIADs for those who do not want to take their lunches in the building and will punch them out after 45 minutes. Yeah, I know it's not right, but who wants to sit for 45 minutes.

don't let bubblehead find out you are doing this. He will blame me for it!

Don't you worry about Bubbles.

The OMS is setting herself up and the drivers for discharge. Why is it so hard for people to just follow our contracts?

No worries, Dave UpstateNYUPSer is an anonymous poster on this forum.

 

[cachsux]

OK, but I was not using work as directed in a general sense. I was using it in the context of a thread specifically about a driver fired for refusing to take a lunch when he was directed to do so. I have no disagreement with refusing to perform unsafe or illegal acts. None.

Another poster brought up the other point in this situation. Once the driver worked through the contractually designated lunch period it became a paid lunch and the mgmt attempt to get him to take it at the end of the day is void. Discipline for refusing to stay at that point should be void. However in that scenario, under threat of disciplinary action, the OP should have stayed and then filed for the time to be paid.

 

[wncdriver]

I know that when I was qualifying all the drivers told me -work through your lunch, punch out and run anyway- but my trainer said that if i did that he would know and i would be dq'd for dishonesty or something like that, integrity or something (and our old building manager moved in with the hr lady when he left his wife - theres integrity for ya!)

 

[Bubblehead]

I know that when I was qualifying all the drivers told me -work through your lunch, punch out and run anyway- but my trainer said that if i did that he would know and i would be dq'd for dishonesty or something like that, integrity or something (and our old building manager moved in with the hr lady when he left his wife - theres integrity for ya!)

Didn't you notice he was winking at you the whole time he was talking?

 

[Bubblehead]

That lawsuit was already filed and lost by UPS in CA, and that is what I was referring to. I believe for several years boards there were set to shut down and not allow any deliveries during the specified lunch period.

Yes, I know. I was suggesting a second lawsuit.

Yes I am telling you there is not a report they can query to tell whether a driver worked during the coded lunch. They could compare two different reports, the drivers time cards to see when lunch was coded and his delivery records to see when work was done. This would only take about 3-5 Minutes per driver to pull up and review. So for a 60 route center it would only require the center manager to spend an extra 3-5 hours every day away from his family to baby sit grown men and make sure they are doing what they have agreed to do.

I didn't say a report exists in the present managerial culture. I only implied that it was well within the realm of possibility for a report to be queried. Are you denying that it would be an easy report to maintain with the company's computer infrastructure? It's not, you don't want to know.

You are almost correct. Most of the over allowed reduction comes from those drivers who chose to work through their lunch to get home. They chose to give that time back. It is wrong and they should not do it, but they are grown men and if they chose to give that time to the center manager, it is really a stretch to call it stealing.
On the other side of the coin, even in situations where the management team is ordered to babysit and make sure everyone not only codes the lunch but does not work during it, guess what? The over allowed still goes down. Not by as much, but it does. So is this because with the prospect of a later return home time, some drivers become runners and work unsafe, or because some drivers who normally don't really move at a brisk pace per the methods start to do so and thereby steal less time from the company?

It goes down because you guys pick and choose who you pick on. The blind eye remains the status quo for the runner gunners.

I do appreciate your candor and don't blame you exclusively.

 

[brownIEman]

Another poster brought up the other point in this situation. Once the driver worked through the contractually designated lunch period it became a paid lunch and the mgmt attempt to get him to take it at the end of the day is void. Discipline for refusing to stay at that point should be void. However in that scenario, under threat of disciplinary action, the OP should have stayed and then filed for the time to be paid.

What was the contractual lunch period though? It would depend on his supplement, would it not?
Either way, if he is instructed to take a lunch and decides to work through and not take the lunch, he has failed to work as instructed and would open himself to discipline.

Everytime this lunch debate comes up, I love the fact that UPS management get bashed by one side for allowing drivers to not take a lunch, and by the other side for forcing drivers to take a lunch. Either way it is managments fault for not babysitting closely enough. Or for babysitting too closely.

 

[brownmonster]

Just eliminate the forced lunch. If a guy codes 5 minutes, don't pay him for 5 minutes. It's just a fairy tale that more routes will be added if everyone takes a full lunch.

 

[brownIEman]

Just eliminate the forced lunch. If a guy codes 5 minutes, don't pay him for 5 minutes. It's just a fairy tale that more routes will be added if everyone takes a full lunch.

UPS did that, then got sued over it and lost.

You are most likely correct about the fairy tale part...

 

[Bubblehead]

What was the contractual lunch period though? It would depend on his supplement, would it not?
Either way, if he is instructed to take a lunch and decides to work through and not take the lunch, he has failed to work as instructed and would open himself to discipline.

Can't be sure, but I'm willing to bet the contractual lunch period isn't after the 12th hour. I do agree that he has opened himself up to discipline, progressive discipline.

Everytime this lunch debate comes up, I love the fact that UPS management get bashed by one side for allowing drivers to not take a lunch, and by the other side for forcing drivers to take a lunch. Either way it is managments fault for not babysitting closely enough. Or for babysitting too closely.

I love the fact that whenever a manager is remiss in their duties they consider the neglected task to be "babysitting". The issue is provided for in black and white in the contract.

For what it's worth, I don't blame you guys.
If you came over my house and washed my car every weekend for free, I can't envision taking the measures necessary to stop you from continuing.

 

[Bubblehead]

UPS did that, then got sued over it and lost.

You are most likely correct about the fairy tale part...

No, UPS took out an hour for for lunch for California drivers, whether they took it or not.
That's why they got sued and lost.
Had they only deducted time entered for lunch by the driver, there would have been no basis for the suit.

 

[tourists24]

This is simply wrong. There are many things a driver does that show up on one of hundreds of reports, however I do not and most mgt do not have the time to go over all of these reports with a fine tooth comb every day. There are thousands of things a driver does each and every day that are not monitored nor babysat.

Somewhat correct... everything a driver does is monitored even if not by actual management eyes. If you run scratch and dont raise any red flags on reports then you get overlooked by management. But wheCn it doesnt add up you are treated like a 3 year old. The working through lunch time is common knowledge by management but is ignored because it helps the bottom line. Contract language varies by supplement but it is a very simple solution. If the board were simply shut off for the alloted lunch time then you couldnt sheet and work.

 

[cachsux]

What was the contractual lunch period though? It would depend on his supplement, would it not?
Either way, if he is instructed to take a lunch and decides to work through and not take the lunch, he has failed to work as instructed and would open himself to discipline.

Everytime this lunch debate comes up, I love the fact that UPS management get bashed by one side for allowing drivers to not take a lunch, and by the other side for forcing drivers to take a lunch. Either way it is managments fault for not babysitting closely enough. Or for babysitting too closely.

I believe it's between the 4 and 6 hour for pc, 4 and 7 for feeder. There are some minor variations but thats in the ballpark. Was he instructed or did he get dispatched so heavy he could not take lunch and make service?

I've have done feeder runs and was instructed to "get the trls back by x-o"clock". The last time was in full knowledge that road construction to and from would prevent me from completing that direction. I was told I could take my lunch when I got back which was at least 2 hours past the contracted lunch window. I got the trls back on time and told them I would take a paid lunch. The matter was resolved with a mgr. I punched out and left.

 

[brownIEman]

Somewhat correct... everything a driver does is monitored even if not by actual management eyes. If you run scratch and dont raise any red flags on reports then you get overlooked by management. But wheCn it doesnt add up you are treated like a 3 year old. The working through lunch time is common knowledge by management but is ignored because it helps the bottom line. Contract language varies by supplement but it is a very simple solution. If the board were simply shut off for the alloted lunch time then you couldnt sheet and work.

There are only so many hours in a day. Are you suggesting management should spend all their time looking at and working with the best performers? That would be a great way to run a company. Straight into the ground.

 

[brownIEman]

I love the fact that whenever a manager is remiss in their duties they consider the neglected task to be "babysitting". The issue is provided for in black and white in the contract.

You misunderestimate me sir. I am capable of neglecting far more than just the baby sitting tasks.

A baby sitting task is one in which I instruct an employee to perform a very simple, straight forward item, such as, do not wash my car. Then I have to tell them again. And Again. And again. Then I have to pour over stupid reports to make sure they did not wash the car. Then I have to write them up. Then write them up again. Then fire them. Then they go on an online forum and complain that they were fired for washing a car after 18 faithful years and everyone jumps on to give support and shout about what a horrible nasty person I am.

 

[tourists24]

There are only so many hours in a day. Are you suggesting management should spend all their time looking at and working with the best performers? That would be a great way to run a company. Straight into the ground.

Not saying that.... I just think its a hypocritical way to run the show. And conveniently snub your nose at a safety and dishonesty problem. The ones that skip their lunch get an hour longer to bring that overallowed down and the ones that do it honestly get hassled because of overallowed..... make it an even playing field.