Chicago-12K/Year-Free Money! Will It Work?

[zubenelgenubi]

yea i get them confused myself. but socialism as far as i know is definitely not the govt owning the jobs. you can look up noam chomsky and see what he says, ive done it before.

capitalism and govt socialism youre talking about have lots in common which is why they both fail miserably.

Capitalism has its flaws and problems with corruption. And I have no problem with trying to come up with solutions to those problems. But, I would rather put up with some amount of inequality than deal with the absolute economic obliteration that comes with true socialism.

From Merriam-webster

Definition of socialism


1: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
2a: a system of society or group living in which there is no private property
b: a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
3: a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done

where has worker control failed? everyone promotes it constantly. to me its just common sense: take power from the few to the many.

Everywhere it has been attempted. Most notably with the Bolshevik uprising. Notice how pretty much every country that has a "communist party" in charge actually has a capitalist economic structure. Some are more socialist than others, but capitalism out performs other economic systems so much that communists countries are basically communist in name only.

 

[vantexan]

youre one to talk

Bet she gets more action than you.

 

[vantexan]

oil industry shouldnt be privatized at all.

the private owners currently running it in america are conspiring with automakers to keep us using their ancient technology instead of the most efficient of all which is public transit. in addition, you cant reasonably expect them to transition off of oil in time to stop the climate catastrophe.

To some extent I agree with you. But guess what, Americans like their cars. No one puts a gun to their heads, it's a car centric culture. As far as oil production goes, private companies are the most efficient, cost effective way to get oil out of the ground. Their survival depends on it. It wasn't a government bureaucrat who invented fracking.

 

[rickyb]

To some extent I agree with you. But guess what, Americans like their cars. No one puts a gun to their heads, it's a car centric culture. As far as oil production goes, private companies are the most efficient, cost effective way to get oil out of the ground. Their survival depends on it. It wasn't a government bureaucrat who invented fracking.

fracking doesnt actually run a profit.

i think norways model of oil is more efficient, but i dont think they should be selling it.

 

[rickyb]

Bet she gets more action than you.

im not gonna rag on opneeds because i have some respect for her and myself.

 

[vantexan]

fracking doesnt actually run a profit.

i think norways model of oil is more efficient, but i dont think they should be selling it.

Doesn't run a profit? You think all of those companies out there are just doing it to break even?

 

[vantexan]

im not gonna rag on opneeds because i have some respect for her and myself.

But still....

 

[vantexan]

fracking doesnt actually run a profit.

i think norways model of oil is more efficient, but i dont think they should be selling it.

How do you think Norway's economy is sustained?

 

[rickyb]

Capitalism has its flaws and problems with corruption. And I have no problem with trying to come up with solutions to those problems. But, I would rather put up with some amount of inequality than deal with the absolute economic obliteration that comes with true socialism.

From Merriam-webster

Definition of socialism


1: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
2a: a system of society or group living in which there is no private property
b: a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
3: a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done


Everywhere it has been attempted. Most notably with the Bolshevik uprising. Notice how pretty much every country that has a "communist party" in charge actually has a capitalist economic structure. Some are more socialist than others, but capitalism out performs other economic systems so much that communists countries are basically communist in name only.

i think saying that capitalism has its flaws is putting it lightly. if you believe in the climate catastrophe, then capitalism doesnt work at all. or the question is how much reforms are needed to capitalism to make it sustainable. and im still not in favor of concentrations of power that come with capitalism, or workers being exploited. id also guess that so called "communist" countries had extreme inequality as well.

 

[rickyb]

Doesn't run a profit? You think all of those companies out there are just doing it to break even?

you can look up keiser report and chris hedges on fracking.

 

[rickyb]

To some extent I agree with you. But guess what, Americans like their cars. No one puts a gun to their heads, it's a car centric culture. As far as oil production goes, private companies are the most efficient, cost effective way to get oil out of the ground. Their survival depends on it. It wasn't a government bureaucrat who invented fracking.

culture is no justification for anything.

 

[vantexan]

you can look up keiser report and chris hedges on fracking.

Don't need to read anything anti fossil fuel to know what they want.

 

[vantexan]

culture is no justification for anything.

Who are you to tell everyone how to transport themselves?

 

[rickyb]

Who are you to tell everyone how to transport themselves?

now were getting somewhere because we are talking about philosophy.

one of the basic rules is the golden rule. so if climate catastrophe is real, then we wouldnt want to be in future generations shoes.

 

[rickyb]

Don't need to read anything anti fossil fuel to know what they want.

fracking is a failed business model. keiser has constantly covered it in his show.

 

[zubenelgenubi]

i think saying that capitalism has its flaws is putting it lightly. if you believe in the climate catastrophe, then capitalism doesnt work at all. or the question is how much reforms are needed to capitalism to make it sustainable. and im still not in favor of concentrations of power that come with capitalism, or workers being exploited. id also guess that so called "communist" countries had extreme inequality as well.

Sure, if we still depended on slave labor and didn't use oil/coal as fuel sources, co2 levels would be lower, but I'm not going down that rabbit hole, there are other threads...

 

[vantexan]

fracking is a failed business model. keiser has constantly covered it in his show.

Sure Ricky, and yet for some crazy reason oil companies keep doing it to the extent the U.S. is now the world's largest oil producer.

 

[rickyb]

Sure Ricky, and yet for some crazy reason oil companies keep doing it to the extent the U.S. is now the world's largest oil producer.

i think i recall hearing from them that fracking is in a bubble.

 

[1989]

thats great but thats all charity. and how much have you donated personally? im pushing $10,000 of my dough and i wasnt middle class most of the time.

a society which has more justice needs less charity - ralph nader.

I put in 20K startup last year. $250 a week this year. Giving money is a passive action. Giving the time and effort is much more difficult. The question is, what Have you DONE?

 

[DriveInDriveOut]

Sure Ricky, and yet for some crazy reason oil companies keep doing it to the extent the U.S. is now the world's largest oil producer.

Thanks Obama!