Contract news?

krash

Go big orange
With all due respect, Krash, I don't think I miss your point. I just approach the issue from a different perspective. I'll make a suggestion. There's a book called The Jungle written in 1906 by Upton Sinclair. Unions certainly played a role in the legislation stopping those abuses but this book started a movement. History tells us that when Teddy Roosevelt finished reading the book, he went ballistic. I suggest you read it and find out why. -Rocky
Rocky,
I sure wish you would enlighten me how you are "approaching" the issue when it concerns betraying your brothers and sisters on a picket line. I really don't understand that comment.

Also, a lot of good hard working men and woman died for the labor movement so I can't imagine Teddy played a bigger role than they did. They had the laws and LE against them plus the hired goons the employers pitted against them. Amazing how some gave there life while others can't even walk the line but cross it instead. That isn't the example I would want to set for my kids.

But I will make it a point to read the book in the future. I just ask you put some thought into what your saying and the argument you chose to use.
 

tieguy

Banned
Tieguy,
The Article 22.3 combo jobs are created by joining two already existing, back-to-back part time jobs. What could be simpler? The process should only take a few moments of thought, plus the time it takes to send an email notification to payroll. But UPS has fought the process every step of the way.

Jon,

Many jobs are not that compatible. We mirror pm air or pm wash with night hub. these guys start later then the hub and end up reporting to the night hub an hour after the hub starts. They are not perfect fits by any means.
 

RockyRogue

Agent of Change
Rocky,
I sure wish you would enlighten me how you are "approaching" the issue when it concerns betraying your brothers and sisters on a picket line. I really don't understand that comment.

I'm approaching it as a hard-working, honest, reasonable individual. If a strike was called for the benefit of UPS'ers, I'm OK with that. Calling a strike because UPS wants to can our health insurance? Sure, I'm behind that. Strike because UPS doesn't want to add X number of friend/t jobs? Maybe, maybe not. Strike because UPS won't raise the p/t wage rate? Again, maybe, maybe not. IT DEPENDS ON THE BIGGER PICTURE!!! A strike in an effort to save the IBT's Central Mistakes Fund? I'll defend myself appropriately on my way into the operation. A strike will probably not be called for one reason. It'll probably be combination of them. My point is this: I'm not striking unless its for our benefit. I'm no dummy, by the way. I have a way with finding answers on the Internet and reading through B.S. public statements. I'll get my answers if the union won't answer my questions.

Also, a lot of good hard working men and woman died for the labor movement so I can't imagine Teddy played a bigger role than they did. They had the laws and LE against them plus the hired goons the employers pitted against them. Amazing how some gave there life while others can't even walk the line but cross it instead. That isn't the example I would want to set for my kids.

Teddy was the U.S. President. Just like today, politics ruled the day. But, keep in mind you had the Progressive Movement in full-swing at the time. THAT had a serious impact!! I won't turn this into a history lesson, though. I believe I've added "probably" to my comments about crossing picket lines. Its my decision to make. If a union rep or management official came to me tomorrow and asked if I would cross, I'd ask them to go away. Its none of the union's business now and its not management's concern until a strike is called. Remember the air traffic control strike of 1981, Krash? UPS may just decide to TERMINATE all Teamsters in the event of a strike. Let me put it this way: I'd probably honor Teamster picket lines as long as my conscience doesn't start screaming foul. My "Board of Advisors" (people I trust explicitly) would have to weigh in as well. After that, I'd make a decision I'd be at peace with--morally and professionally. If I did cross, I'd defend my decision to my dying day. I don't look back with regrets. The way some people on here talk, that dying day might come sooner than I'd planned or like. And if Eskew went on television and announced he was terminating ALL UPS'ers if they didn't return to work by X date for their regularly scheduled shifts, I'd promptly report to my hub. Saber-rattling? Possibly. But I'm not gambling my livelihood!!!!!

But I will make it a point to read the book in the future. I just ask you put some thought into what your saying and the argument you chose to use.

Read the book and then come talk to me about the goons, etc. I haven't read the book in years but it was an eye-opener when I did. In my Illinois school district it was required reading. I think it was 8th Grade but please don't quote me on that. It was also set in the Chicago Stockyards. All the horror stories you hear about today from the meat processing plants? Those were a daily occurrence in 1906 and NO ONE put a stop to it!

Anything else, Krash? I'll be glad to answer questions and/or defend my position. PM is fine, by the way. I'd rather not make a public scene, my friend. -Rocky
 

sawdusttv

Well-Known Member
NEWS FLASH!!! LATEST RUMORS!!!!!!!!

The latest is that the figure put on the table by UPS has increased to 8.2 billion dollars. This amount is offered to the teamsters in exchange for pulling all UPS employees out of all teamster pension plans, completely out. The carrot that UPS is waiving at the teamsters is in exchange for the teamsters accepting the offer, UPS will give the teamsters voluntary recognition at UPS frieght which will amount to around 50 million a month in dues.

Anyone else heard this one or anything close?
 

Cole

Well-Known Member
And if Eskew went on television and announced he was terminating ALL UPS'ers if they didn't return to work by X date for their regularly scheduled shifts, I'd promptly report to my hub. Saber-rattling? Possibly. But I'm not gambling my livelihood!!!!!

I thought you are leaving UPS in September?
Either way, if Eskew decided he wanted to permanently replace striking workers, then they may as well close the doors, because you can't teach this job in a quick fashion with customers already angry w/ you on strike. Quality would be gone, and customers would too.

There should be no reason to strike, as the parties should be able to hammer out a reasonable contract with no interruption.
 

tieguy

Banned
NEWS FLASH!!! LATEST RUMORS!!!!!!!!

The latest is that the figure put on the table by UPS has increased to 8.2 billion dollars. This amount is offered to the teamsters in exchange for pulling all UPS employees out of all teamster pension plans, completely out. The carrot that UPS is waiving at the teamsters is in exchange for the teamsters accepting the offer, UPS will give the teamsters voluntary recognition at UPS frieght which will amount to around 50 million a month in dues.

Anyone else heard this one or anything close?

I feel like I'm stuck in a 97 time warp.
 

nospinzone

Well-Known Member
The carrot that UPS is waiving at the teamsters is in exchange for the teamsters accepting the offer, UPS will give the teamsters voluntary recognition at UPS frieght which will amount to around 50 million a month in dues.
I'm not a lawyer, but that sounds like an NLRB violation. If UPS gives the Teamsters voluntary recognition, they have to afford the same to the APWA. And UPS made their decision known last week when they denied APWA voluntary recognition.


NLRB said:
Sec. 8. [§ 158.] (a) [Unfair labor practices by employer]
It shall be an unfair labor practice for an employer--
(2)to dominate or interfere with the formation or administration of any labor organization or contribute financial or other support to it.
SOURCE
 
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NEWS FLASH!!! LATEST RUMORS!!!!!!!!

The latest is that the figure put on the table by UPS has increased to 8.2 billion dollars. This amount is offered to the teamsters in exchange for pulling all UPS employees out of all teamster pension plans, completely out. The carrot that UPS is waiving at the teamsters is in exchange for the teamsters accepting the offer, UPS will give the teamsters voluntary recognition at UPS frieght which will amount to around 50 million a month in dues.

Anyone else heard this one or anything close?

I'm curious where you came across this rumor?

Rumors are a dime a dozen at this point.
 

RockyRogue

Agent of Change
I thought you are leaving UPS in September?
Either way, if Eskew decided he wanted to permanently replace striking workers, then they may as well close the doors, because you can't teach this job in a quick fashion with customers already angry w/ you on strike. Quality would be gone, and customers would too.

There should be no reason to strike, as the parties should be able to hammer out a reasonable contract with no interruption.

That's what is probably going to happen. Unfortunately, life has its speed-bumps and what not.

I don't disagree you can't teach this job quickly. However, look at what happened in '81. By Christmas, the nations air-traffic control system was running smoothly. A student of history, I've read about this strike. ANYONE CAN BE REPLACED!!! -Rocky
 

satellitedriver

Moderator
That's what is probably going to happen. Unfortunately, life has its speed-bumps and what not.

I don't disagree you can't teach this job quickly. However, look at what happened in '81. By Christmas, the nations air-traffic control system was running smoothly. A student of history, I've read about this strike. ANYONE CAN BE REPLACED!!! -Rocky
How true Rocky.
Winston Churchill said it best. "The graveyards are full of indispendsable men."
 

Cole

Well-Known Member
Air traffic control and parcel deliveries are two widely different jobs! The customers we deal with everyday will not put up with the results of such an erroneous decision. You say it was working smoothly, yet you weren't even born at the time, so how do you know it was working smoothly?
 
Not to mention the fact that there was no competition for them to turn to. If it took 2 weeks, 2 months or 2 years, the flying public had no choice but to deal with the hassles until the replacements were up to speed. Not so with UPS. If they cleaned house to start from scratch, FedEx, DHL and the USPS would gain a stranglehold on the customer base. I doubt UPS could recover from that. I'm not trying to say we can't be replaced, but attempting to do so would have devastating results. Your comparison between us and the controllers is apples and oranges.
 

RockyRogue

Agent of Change
Air traffic control and parcel deliveries are two widely different jobs! The customers we deal with everyday will not put up with the results of such an erroneous decision. You say it was working smoothly, yet you weren't even born at the time, so how do you know it was working smoothly?

True, the customers will not put up with such a decision. I heard of people refusing to fly Eastern after a union went on strike and they were replaced. I think it was pilots but I could be wrong.

Yes, that's right. I wasn't born at the time but newspapers don't lie, Cole. It wasn't pretty and it d*mn sure wasn't smooth but the airways kept flying. My research said there was no loss of life, let alone one crash during the changeover. Trust me, if it can be done with the nations ATC, it can be done with drivers and handlers. Again, not a pretty process but it would happen. UPS would take nasty beating in the press and with customers but look at J&J and where they are now after the Tylenol poisoning. I believe that incident was the mid-80's but I'll stand corrected if I'm wrong.

Not to mention the fact that there was no competition for them to turn to. If it took 2 weeks, 2 months or 2 years, the flying public had no choice but to deal with the hassles until the replacements were up to speed. Not so with UPS. If they cleaned house to start from scratch, FedEx, DHL and the USPS would gain a stranglehold on the customer base. I doubt UPS could recover from that. I'm not trying to say we can't be replaced, but attempting to do so would have devastating results. Your comparison between us and the controllers is apples and oranges.

True, those companies would. However, UPS isn't known for giving in to competition. Look where we are today. Do you think we got here without some "true grit?" I really doubt UPS would succumb overnight and without a helluva fight. Maybe I'm wrong. I hope and pray Eskew and Co. doesn't take that drastic step of terminating union workers. It would be a big mistake! -Rocky
 

sawdusttv

Well-Known Member
I'm not a lawyer, but that sounds like an NLRB violation. If UPS gives the Teamsters voluntary recognition, they have to afford the same to the APWA. And UPS made their decision known last week when they denied APWA voluntary recognition.
No, I think that you are wrong there Nospin, Ups can give voluntary recognition to whoever they please, and even though the APWA have 80% in there favor in Kansas City, Eskew (spelling?) told the Apwa that voluntary recognition was for the teamsters only, thus the APWA filed papers with the NLRB for a vote, which will take place within 41 days. We are talking about UPS frieght here for those of you who may not know already.
 
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sawdusttv

Well-Known Member
I'm curious where you came across this rumor?

Rumors are a dime a dozen at this point.

I said they were rumors because I heard it by word of mouth, from people that I consider to be very reputable, I want devulge there names because I do not have there permission to do so. But, that is why I said they are rumors, because even though I feel that these people are honest, I have not seen it on paper as of yet.
 

nospinzone

Well-Known Member
No, I think that you are wrong there Nospin, Ups can give voluntary recognition to whoever they please, and even though the APWA have 80% in there favor in Kansas City, Eskew (spelling?) told the Apwa that voluntary recognition was for the teamsters only, thus the APWA filed papers with the NLRB for a vote, which will take place within 41 days. We are talking about UPS frieght here for those of you who may not know already.

IMHO...UPS does have the right to extend voluntary recognition. However, the NLRB prohibits the employer from encouraging one union over the other. By providing voluntary recognition to IBT and denying APWA, they have given preferential treatment to the Teamsters.

The rest of your statement is accurate. We will have an answer from the NLRB on what Kansas City wants in 41 days.
 
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